Refining Slater's Wheels

Steph Dale

Steph Dale

Western Thunderer
Guys,

You'll already know that I've no fear of fiddling Slater's wheels to meet my needs if you've seen the threads here and elsewhere about building Bulleid diesel locos.

But, I'm now the proud owner of a Finney Duchess kit and haven't got access to a Harris wheelset, so I was thinking about what may be done to refine a set of Slater's wheels.

I'm suggesting that I could skim the back of the spokes to thin the thickness of the wheel, probably create new axle end fixing screws/method to allow the axles to appear hollow. Plus the usual mucking about with crankpins (10BA rather than 12BA) and fiddling necessary to get them to run as 'true' as possible.

Has anyone tried any of these things? Thoughts, please?

'Stop faffing around and ring JPL' would be considered an acceptable comment, if that's the case!

Stepgh
 
28ten

28ten

Guv'nor
I have skimmed the back of the spokes in the past without issue, I would recommend using soft jaws to hold the wheel so you can get the square and securely mounted, and obviously light cuts;)
It is possible to drill out the Slaters square bushes to insert your own hollow axles, but you do have to be very careful doing it with spoked wheels, and I would do it before thinning any spokes.....
 
Dog Star

Dog Star

Western Thunderer
There is a finite amount of material which can be removed from the front / back face of the tyre because of the internal groove (the method by which the rim tyre is retained on the wheel centre). So be careful when machining the tyre otherwise the steel tyre peels away from the nylon centre.

Although I have not tried this approach as yet... the experiments of Adrian (Buck) and myself suggest that the use of CPL cast crank pin nuts and threaded N/S rod is a worthwhile route if possible.
 
adrian

adrian

Flying Squad
Steph Dale said:
Guys,
'Stop faffing around and ring JPL' would be considered an acceptable comment, if that's the case!
Click to expand...
Apologies in advance for my ignorance but what does the reference to JPL mean? I don't get chance to visit the various shows these days and the demise of AGH has put a dent in some of my plans. So the various commets about JPL have tweaked my interest. I've seen the GOG site which lists them as a supplier of wheels but with no website it's difficult to know what is on offer. Can they supply S7 wheelsets or is it just wheels centres for which I'd have to make my own tyres?
 
Steph Dale

Steph Dale

Western Thunderer
Adrian,

JPL provide a limited range of grey iron wheel castings, which include material for tyres. Specifications when provided turned and assembled are much as for Slater's; including square-ended axles for the drivers, trailing wheels screw on to the end of the axle. I've had the odd set or two across my bench and regard them as being a whole lot better than Walsall wheels, but not as good as Harris.

I'm not sure how they'd react to a request for S7 wheelsets, but they're easy to talk to on the phone (or so I'm told). I suspect that's my next port of call - the descriptions in their catalogue are somewhat vague...

Steph
 
Eastsidepilot

Eastsidepilot

Western Thunderer
Guy's with regards to producing S7 wheel sets, general wheel turning and producing split axles etc. I am advertising a service for this on my web site.
If you have a blank castings I can turn them up and mount them on my own split axles, telescopic and or insulated.
I can re-profile Slaters wheels to S7.:D
I usually take 0.012" off the back of Slaters wheels before re'profiling to S7, but you can relieve the back of the spokes as well even if the're F/S.

ATB, Col.
 
Eastsidepilot

Eastsidepilot

Western Thunderer
Steph Dale said:
Guys,

You'll already know that I've no fear of fiddling Slater's wheels to meet my needs if you've seen the threads here and elsewhere about building Bulleid diesel locos.

But, I'm now the proud owner of a Finney Duchess kit and haven't got access to a Harris wheelset, so I was thinking about what may be done to refine a set of Slater's wheels.

I'm suggesting that I could skim the back of the spokes to thin the thickness of the wheel, probably create new axle end fixing screws/method to allow the axles to appear hollow. Plus the usual mucking about with crankpins (10BA rather than 12BA) and fiddling necessary to get them to run as 'true' as possible.

Has anyone tried any of these things? Thoughts, please?

'Stop faffing around and ring JPL' would be considered an acceptable comment, if that's the case!

Stepgh
Click to expand...
Steph,
Guv's suggestions work well, certainly you can bore the brass centre to take a hollow round end axle ( I'd go for a split axle conversion). I like to drill out the bosses to take 10b.a. machine screws for crank pins, Markits make 10b.a. bushes but more prototypical nuts/retainers can be produced on the lathe.
Are you building S7 or F/S mate.

Col.
 
Steph Dale

Steph Dale

Western Thunderer
Col,

It'll be in F/S, still doesn't alter the fact it'll have inside motion, springing, split axles, etc, etc...

Once I've 'pinged' JPL for the details of their 6'9" 21spk PB driver (and whether it's got a 'V' rim) you may well receive an email...

Steph
 
Dog Star

Dog Star

Western Thunderer
Steph - you might like to ask Mr. Paul Penn-Sayers (aka Locomodels) who has turned AGH castings for me and one other WT member. Paul did the wheels for Peter's A4... telescopic axles and cranks set at 120 degrees. Our wheels had tufnol bushes in the boss... you might appreciate having tufnol bushes for the coupling rod pins.

regards, Graham
 
Steph Dale

Steph Dale

Western Thunderer
eastsidepilot said:
Nothing more annoying than finding the right spec. wheel only to find the rims wrong:rolleyes:.....
Crank axle ? ;).
Col.
Click to expand...

Yep - I'd probably want to provide a silver-soldered blank using Laurie Griffin's cranks.

Dog Star said:
Steph - you might like to ask Mr. Paul Penn-Sayers (aka Locomodels) who has turned AGH castings for me and one other WT member. Paul did the wheels for Peter's A4... telescopic axles and cranks set at 120 degrees. Our wheels had tufnol bushes in the boss... you might appreciate having tufnol bushes for the coupling rod pins.

regards, Graham
Click to expand...

I'd be specifying insulated crankpins. Tufnol though? Yeugh! Surely there's something better available these days?

Steph
 
D

decauville1126

Active Member
Steph Dale said:
Guys,

You'll already know that I've no fear of fiddling Slater's wheels to meet my needs if you've seen the threads here and elsewhere about building Bulleid diesel locos.

But, I'm now the proud owner of a Finney Duchess kit and haven't got access to a Harris wheelset, so I was thinking about what may be done to refine a set of Slater's wheels.

I'm suggesting that I could skim the back of the spokes to thin the thickness of the wheel, probably create new axle end fixing screws/method to allow the axles to appear hollow. Plus the usual mucking about with crankpins (10BA rather than 12BA) and fiddling necessary to get them to run as 'true' as possible.

Has anyone tried any of these things? Thoughts, please?

'Stop faffing around and ring JPL' would be considered an acceptable comment, if that's the case!

Stepgh
Click to expand...

Faced with a similar predicament, in this case actually needing flangeless wheels as per a particular prototype, I took the risk and simply mounted the wheel on an axle and then into a 3/16" collet on the lathe. A nice sharp HSS tool and fearing that the worst that could happen was that the wheel would get wrecked relying on the plastic centre to transmit the drive to the tyre, went in with a first light cut. To my amazement it seems that Slater's use a freecutting mild steel, possibly leaded, so light cuts soon had it flangeless. So taking a skim off the back should pose no problem (usual disclaimer!) apart from some rag on the spokes needing cleaning up. If only someone produced an S7 form tool for sale ....
 
Railwaymaniac

Railwaymaniac

Western Thunderer
Oh, and a cheerful "Welcome to the forum" to Decauville 1126 !
:)

Please don't be shy to use the 'new member' page - you know it makes sense . . . .

Ian

(And a swift appology to Steph for a total hijack of the thread, too :oops: )
 
Eastsidepilot

Eastsidepilot

Western Thunderer
Steph Dale said:
Yep - I'd probably want to provide a silver-soldered blank using Laurie Griffin's cranks.



I'd be specifying insulated crankpins. Tufnol though? Yeugh! Surely there's something better available these days?

Steph
Click to expand...
Not sure wether PTF is suitable Steph, I have not experimented with it yet.

Col.
 
S

Simon Dunkley

Guest
Dog Star said:
There is a finite amount of material which can be removed from the front / back face of the tyre because of the internal groove (the method by which the rim tyre is retained on the wheel centre). So be careful when machining the tyre otherwise the steel tyre peels away from the nylon centre.
Click to expand...
Yeah. I know that.

Guess how I found out?:'(
 
Steph Dale

Steph Dale

Western Thunderer
eastsidepilot said:
Not sure wether PTF is suitable Steph, I have not experimented with it yet.

Col.
Click to expand...
Col,
I don't think PTFE would work all that well as it's a non-stick material.
Acetal rod ('Delrin') would seem to be the best idea to me, although glass-filled nylon, as used for Slater's wheels would probably work well too. Either would work well as press fit/high load, but I suspect the acetal would be the better choice; easier to machine too.
Steph
 
Dog Star

Dog Star

Western Thunderer
Steph Dale said:
... glass-filled nylon, as used for Slater's wheels would probably work well.
Click to expand...

I think that nylon is not a good material for machining in that the stuff moves under the load of the cutting tool. I wonder if what you want is a thermo-setting plastic rather than a thermo-hardening plastic. What is your aversion to tufnol?

BTW - the discussion seems to have moved away from using Slater's wheels so maybe you ought to think of a more appropriate title for the thread.

regards, Graham
 
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