mickoo
Western Thunderer
Cheers, I'll cross reference it with the mock up model
7mm US model dabblings
- Thread starter Jordan
- Start date
mickoo
Western Thunderer
A while ago, I acquired a Overland GTEL, it was a good price, despite shipping and poor state (a box of bit really).
It's slowly being cleaned up ready for repairs and upgrading but one of the issues was the gearboxes on the axles.
The GTEL requires 12 gearboxes, six for the cab unit, six for the turbine unit, all of them were in a poor state and many either missing or half shells missing.
By very good fortune a virtually complete cab unit chassis was also in the box of bits, I'd spotted that in the sellers photos but kept mum and basically bagged a free chassis. On the real engines the truck from the GTELs were recovered and traded in on the GE U50C, so those spare trucks will be used on that etched build when I get to it.
In a nut shell I need 18 gearboxes, they can be acquired but at a cost and may even suffer from the same failures as the current ones, though I suspect not as I'm sure my GTEL was a test build and as such, very very old.
Some refresher images, the cab unit with trucks and poor condition gear boxes.
The turbine unit with what's left of the gear boxes for that unit.
The spare chassis with trucks destined for the u50C
The cracking and breaking up of the shells is self evident.
Fast forward a couple of years and just for giggles I decided to see if it was possible to print replacement shells.
I've made a few changes, reduced the free area around the gears to increase the shell strength in resin and added rebates for the top hat bearings. To stop the top hats spinning I'll either add a little Loctite to their outer surfaces on assembly but am considering a mechanical fixing as well.
Simply put, solder a 0.5 mm length of wire along the bearing in the same axis as the axle, then, apply a similar rebate in the resin shell to accommodate the wire and stop the bearing revolving. Probably not necessary other than for piece of mind.
With the gears, bearings and axle added.
Assembled unit.
On the MkII I'm going to move the fixing screws down and in by 0.5 mm as they're a bit close to the outer edge and it's not printing too well out there on that thin edge, it doesn't matter of course, other than looking cosmetically nicer.
I may also adjust the shape to look a little more like the 752 motor, you can't hide the big tower but you can bulge one end to look like the motor casing and the real gearbox on the other side.
Other than that it does what it says on the tin, spin input shaft and wheel turns, just need another 17 of them
It's slowly being cleaned up ready for repairs and upgrading but one of the issues was the gearboxes on the axles.
The GTEL requires 12 gearboxes, six for the cab unit, six for the turbine unit, all of them were in a poor state and many either missing or half shells missing.
By very good fortune a virtually complete cab unit chassis was also in the box of bits, I'd spotted that in the sellers photos but kept mum and basically bagged a free chassis. On the real engines the truck from the GTELs were recovered and traded in on the GE U50C, so those spare trucks will be used on that etched build when I get to it.
In a nut shell I need 18 gearboxes, they can be acquired but at a cost and may even suffer from the same failures as the current ones, though I suspect not as I'm sure my GTEL was a test build and as such, very very old.
Some refresher images, the cab unit with trucks and poor condition gear boxes.
The turbine unit with what's left of the gear boxes for that unit.
The spare chassis with trucks destined for the u50C
The cracking and breaking up of the shells is self evident.
Fast forward a couple of years and just for giggles I decided to see if it was possible to print replacement shells.
I've made a few changes, reduced the free area around the gears to increase the shell strength in resin and added rebates for the top hat bearings. To stop the top hats spinning I'll either add a little Loctite to their outer surfaces on assembly but am considering a mechanical fixing as well.
Simply put, solder a 0.5 mm length of wire along the bearing in the same axis as the axle, then, apply a similar rebate in the resin shell to accommodate the wire and stop the bearing revolving. Probably not necessary other than for piece of mind.
With the gears, bearings and axle added.
Assembled unit.
On the MkII I'm going to move the fixing screws down and in by 0.5 mm as they're a bit close to the outer edge and it's not printing too well out there on that thin edge, it doesn't matter of course, other than looking cosmetically nicer.
I may also adjust the shape to look a little more like the 752 motor, you can't hide the big tower but you can bulge one end to look like the motor casing and the real gearbox on the other side.
Other than that it does what it says on the tin, spin input shaft and wheel turns, just need another 17 of them
mickoo
Western Thunderer
A little work on the CF7 cab front.
Tried to print it as one piece, it kind of worked but the orientation wasn't the best so there's some discrepancies, not sure why there's a hole right in the middle of the nose, probably a bubble in the resin, but what are the odds of it being pretty much bang in the middle?
The tread pattern is overdone and too large, primarily to see if it'll print, next step is to gradually reduce it in size and depth and see what happens.
I did try a nose and cab front on their own, again both had issues and like this combined cab, hopefully solvable.
There was a 0.3 mm thick wing plate by the conductors steps, predictably it failed, not to print, but survive cleaning and handling.
Tried to print it as one piece, it kind of worked but the orientation wasn't the best so there's some discrepancies, not sure why there's a hole right in the middle of the nose, probably a bubble in the resin, but what are the odds of it being pretty much bang in the middle?
The tread pattern is overdone and too large, primarily to see if it'll print, next step is to gradually reduce it in size and depth and see what happens.
I did try a nose and cab front on their own, again both had issues and like this combined cab, hopefully solvable.
There was a 0.3 mm thick wing plate by the conductors steps, predictably it failed, not to print, but survive cleaning and handling.
mickoo
Western Thunderer
Back to cleaning models, the eraser wasn't having much luck with the current compressor, it's quiet, but simply not man enough, as many of you rightly pointed out.
I also tried some commercial fine grit and glass beads, the beads were impressive and gave a nice finish but didn't remove paint that well, I tried a 50/50 mix and that worked better but after an hour and only cleaning off 3" sq of model I just gave up. I was spending longer waiting for the tank to recharge than actually doing any work.
Fast forward to today and the new set up arrived, I'm still missing some Euro couplers and BSP adaptors, but I don't think I'll be running out of air anymore
It's not quiet either (or light at 50Kg+), so I will have to sort some sort of cover if used outside or I may just stuff it in the garage also with an attenuating cover (I have elderly neighbours and it's unfair on them) and run an air line outside.
The smaller compressor can now be dedicated to the airbrush
I also tried some commercial fine grit and glass beads, the beads were impressive and gave a nice finish but didn't remove paint that well, I tried a 50/50 mix and that worked better but after an hour and only cleaning off 3" sq of model I just gave up. I was spending longer waiting for the tank to recharge than actually doing any work.
Fast forward to today and the new set up arrived, I'm still missing some Euro couplers and BSP adaptors, but I don't think I'll be running out of air anymore
It's not quiet either (or light at 50Kg+), so I will have to sort some sort of cover if used outside or I may just stuff it in the garage also with an attenuating cover (I have elderly neighbours and it's unfair on them) and run an air line outside.
The smaller compressor can now be dedicated to the airbrush
Back to cleaning models, the eraser wasn't having much luck with the current compressor, it's quiet, but simply not man enough, as many of you rightly pointed out.
I also tried some commercial fine grit and glass beads, the beads were impressive and gave a nice finish but didn't remove paint that well, I tried a 50/50 mix and that worked better but after an hour and only cleaning off 3" sq of model I just gave up. I was spending longer waiting for the tank to recharge than actually doing any work.
Fast forward to today and the new set up arrived, I'm still missing some Euro couplers and BSP adaptors, but I don't think I'll be running out of air anymore
It's not quiet either (or light at 50Kg+), so I will have to sort some sort of cover if used outside or I may just stuff it in the garage also with an attenuating cover (I have elderly neighbours and it's unfair on them) and run an air line outside.
View attachment 122866
The smaller compressor can now be dedicated to the airbrush
Hi Mickoo,
Reminds me of "using the right tool for the job".
Well done!
Regards,
Peter
mickoo
Western Thunderer
Well Santa arrived early.....or late.
I cannot emphasize how much I've been waiting for these. The order went in and was being processed just before the lock down, so I can only presume they've been sat in their outbox waiting to be shipped. Big thumbs up to whom ever is working up there, even in their limited capacity.
There's a whole new GEVO cab test build to make up and a bundle of upgrade parts for the MTH RTR shell, the new test build now means that I can disassemble the old test build and use the front end pilot and steps etches and see if it's possible to graft them onto the MTH RTR model.
If so then I'll make up a specific RTR upgrade etch as I plan to acquire several of these and other RTR models with the view to doing the same. I'll also continue to develop the high end detailed etched model and am looking to start on a SD70M and SD70ACe versions as well.
I cannot emphasize how much I've been waiting for these. The order went in and was being processed just before the lock down, so I can only presume they've been sat in their outbox waiting to be shipped. Big thumbs up to whom ever is working up there, even in their limited capacity.
There's a whole new GEVO cab test build to make up and a bundle of upgrade parts for the MTH RTR shell, the new test build now means that I can disassemble the old test build and use the front end pilot and steps etches and see if it's possible to graft them onto the MTH RTR model.
If so then I'll make up a specific RTR upgrade etch as I plan to acquire several of these and other RTR models with the view to doing the same. I'll also continue to develop the high end detailed etched model and am looking to start on a SD70M and SD70ACe versions as well.
mickoo
Western Thunderer
Work proceeds on the GEVO, a couple of errors in the etch precludes a final model build, but it'll serve it's purpose to check all the additional bits and changes to design, some I know haven't worked before even fitting.
The MTH upgrade hit a wall when the first part (cab windscreen) didn't fit which kind of threw me so out with the measuring stick and a trawl through photos and drawings reveal that the MTH cab is not quite right, ironically neither is mine nor the Overland model either, all suffer from the odd measurement error here and there. But, I have a better handle on it now and it may be possible to adjust the GEVO etch to test the theories.
Anyway, a few weeks back whilst idling through Ebay at lunch time two Atlas Dash8's popped up, both 2 rail and both insanely cheap, however, they were Atlas and Trainman to boot. Basically, Trainman is Atlas's entry range aimed at carpet railways for want of a better word, they're scale length and sizes but lack all the additional addon on bits and pieces higher end models come with.
The images didn't seem to show a 'carpet' model at all, so a quick browse of reviews finds that although it's Trainman, it's not actually that bad, given the price it was worth a punt. By that time one had already gone so it was a blink of an eye and the other was mine; it arrived today
Here, is the face that changed US railroading forever, the advent of the Comfort cab, Wide cab, North American cab, call it what you may. The GE wide cab was not a new idea, fitted before to many Canadian engines and by EMD way back on the Centennials and later GP60M's, but this time it stuck and the GEVO revolution was started.
At a first glance there are a couple of obvious issues, the moulded wipers on the glass, the overly wide truck frames and typical RTR lack of under frame plumbing.
Another issue less easily fixed is the engine intake filter, the big long one behind the dynamic brake intakes, it's the wrong size by quite a margin, certainly height, length less so. UP didn't buy into the wide cab Dash 8-40CW initially, just 39 units all told, of which 9390 is one of them, they already had a large fleet of standard cab GE's.
They did however buy more of the engine upgraded Dash 8-41CW, there's little to tell them apart, nothing externally as far I've found, but with 163 units on order was a sizeable contract.
Sante Fe (ATSF) also bought both models and having an Overland one of those it was a simply task to do some comparisons.
Now it has to be said that the Overland model foes for between £1200-1700 depending on demand, the Atlas one cost me £186 plus shipping, so it's a bit of an unfair comparison......or is it?
The Atlas model captures the cab screen area very well and measures out quite accurately, though the side quarter light window is a little too large, on the other hand, the Overland nose top is too low, which deepens the screen front and to compensate Overland have enlarged the front screens vertically, the quarter light window is too small, the real engine is sized between the two models.
On the casing the Atlas moulded detail is surprisingly good, a little to 3D in places and the handrails are not overly offensive, robust but delicate, as opposed to Overlands cast channel offerings. Conversely the etched doors and panels on the Overland are to 2D, engine doors are flush with a half etch groove to represent them, Atlas doors do at least stand proud like the real thing and some gentle washes and weathering will show them up nicely.
Pilots on the Atlas are to be expected for RTR and it suffers from having to be both 2 rail and 3 rail compatible, little things like the extra moulded socket for the front hand rail on the step cill beam (just beside the F marking at the front)
Where Overland really wins is below the hem line, there is no comparison between the two, Ford Focus viz Aston Martin DB9, though with a little effort the Atlas can be upgraded to Focus ST quite easily.
Some scale wheels, possibly P48, though I'm heading more toward a garden roundy roundy for the US stuff as opposed to an uber detail shunting plank/diorama affair.
New 3D printed truck frames with narrow mounting lugs will move them inboard, the Dash 8 trucks did not have single direction facing traction motors, thus there is no need for the rear transom seen on later models where all traction motors face the same way; that way two side frames are all that is required. Some faux side cills and some detail around the tank and reservoirs would tickle the underside nicely.
I never did see any UP Dash 8's, they're all gone now anyway, but back in 2013 and 2015 they abounded in central Florida and despite their age, were often used on point. According to reports, they're still gong strong as well.
Cracking along at 40MPH through the everglades, 13,000 HP and six tank wagons, so no issues keeping to track speed, actually here it's 60MPH but the driver is just rolling south toward Dade City at a steady pace.
Rolling south and the howl from the DC traction motors is just awesome; not as loud as rolling down grade through Fenner on full dynamics holding back 12,000t at 70MPH mind.
Nice side shot that shows the uneven arrangement of traction motors, leading and intermediate axles have a trailing traction motor, the trailing axle has a leading traction motor, it makes for a very compact truck but limits the size of traction motor you can fit. The advent of larger AC traction motors precluded this arrangement unless the axle spacing was increased between the intermediate and rear axle. Thus the rear motor was turned around but then the motor need somewhere to hang from, hence the introduction of the transom.
Still rolling south through Knights, one of four units in the consist, 7675 is just idling along for the ride, as was the SD40-2 trailing that and the rear unit (forgot to note down), 7859 up front is doing all the work and the weight of three trailing engine far exceeded the six tank wagons in tow.
As with many things GE, the tale does not end there, following the Dash 8 was the Dash 9, more often as not rated at 4400 over the 4000/4100 of the Dash 8. The bigger engine required a longer frame and revised cubicles.
But, before the Dash 9 got into full flow there were a few hybrids knocking around, one of these being CSX 9000 class, built as C44-9W CSX decided to increase their running hours by derating the engines to 4000HP and classified them as C40-9W, a class of only 52 engines.
More interestingly they decided to do all that on the shorter Dash 8 chassis, there are some subtle differences, although the chassis is Dash 8 it carries the new six rung access steps of the Dash 9, as opposed to five on the Dash 8 and the nose filler spouts are now vertical, not parallel with the sheet metal work like the Dash 8.
CSX derated Dash 9, 9004 piles on the power as it and two Dash 8's lift a 100+ car manifest upgrade at Vitis Junction, you can't beat Dash 8's and 9's in run 8, they are so loud.
The train has come off the Vitis Subdivision and in all probability originated in Winston yard, though it could of originated in Taft or Tampa, destination unknown. To the right is the line to Plant City on the Yeoman Subdivision and the train is now on the Wildwood Subdivision.
Trains leaving Winston can get here two ways, turn right to Lakeland, then left to Vitis (here) or turn left to Plant City and then right to Vitis (here), confused
well that's what happens when you cherry pick which two historically parallel systems you choose to retain going forward. Florida is criss crossed with the A and S lines, originally SCL and ACL, both competing for the same traffic and often running parallel lines. CSX merged these and then cherry picked the best sections and joined them all up.
The Vitis, Plant City, Lakeland triangle is always busy (for Florida) and makes train chasing quite exciting, especially if you don;t have a scanner.
Anyway. I'm rambling, back to the Atlas Dash 8, having no real affinity for UP versions this little venture has reopened my interest in Florida's Bone Valley operations and revived some special memories, and that I think, is worth more than any super detailed model. So, I think in due time she will become one of Florida's work weary war horses, battered and weathered. The MTH ES44 will be my UP fix for now.
In closing, despite it's RTR pedigree, I'll certainly be looking out to grab more of them, especially at that price, more so 2 railers, but will consider 3 railers at a push, at sub £200 and despite shipping, they are very good bang for buck.
The MTH upgrade hit a wall when the first part (cab windscreen) didn't fit which kind of threw me so out with the measuring stick and a trawl through photos and drawings reveal that the MTH cab is not quite right, ironically neither is mine nor the Overland model either, all suffer from the odd measurement error here and there. But, I have a better handle on it now and it may be possible to adjust the GEVO etch to test the theories.
Anyway, a few weeks back whilst idling through Ebay at lunch time two Atlas Dash8's popped up, both 2 rail and both insanely cheap, however, they were Atlas and Trainman to boot. Basically, Trainman is Atlas's entry range aimed at carpet railways for want of a better word, they're scale length and sizes but lack all the additional addon on bits and pieces higher end models come with.
The images didn't seem to show a 'carpet' model at all, so a quick browse of reviews finds that although it's Trainman, it's not actually that bad, given the price it was worth a punt. By that time one had already gone so it was a blink of an eye and the other was mine; it arrived today
Here, is the face that changed US railroading forever, the advent of the Comfort cab, Wide cab, North American cab, call it what you may. The GE wide cab was not a new idea, fitted before to many Canadian engines and by EMD way back on the Centennials and later GP60M's, but this time it stuck and the GEVO revolution was started.
At a first glance there are a couple of obvious issues, the moulded wipers on the glass, the overly wide truck frames and typical RTR lack of under frame plumbing.
Another issue less easily fixed is the engine intake filter, the big long one behind the dynamic brake intakes, it's the wrong size by quite a margin, certainly height, length less so. UP didn't buy into the wide cab Dash 8-40CW initially, just 39 units all told, of which 9390 is one of them, they already had a large fleet of standard cab GE's.
They did however buy more of the engine upgraded Dash 8-41CW, there's little to tell them apart, nothing externally as far I've found, but with 163 units on order was a sizeable contract.
Sante Fe (ATSF) also bought both models and having an Overland one of those it was a simply task to do some comparisons.
Now it has to be said that the Overland model foes for between £1200-1700 depending on demand, the Atlas one cost me £186 plus shipping, so it's a bit of an unfair comparison......or is it?
The Atlas model captures the cab screen area very well and measures out quite accurately, though the side quarter light window is a little too large, on the other hand, the Overland nose top is too low, which deepens the screen front and to compensate Overland have enlarged the front screens vertically, the quarter light window is too small, the real engine is sized between the two models.
On the casing the Atlas moulded detail is surprisingly good, a little to 3D in places and the handrails are not overly offensive, robust but delicate, as opposed to Overlands cast channel offerings. Conversely the etched doors and panels on the Overland are to 2D, engine doors are flush with a half etch groove to represent them, Atlas doors do at least stand proud like the real thing and some gentle washes and weathering will show them up nicely.
Pilots on the Atlas are to be expected for RTR and it suffers from having to be both 2 rail and 3 rail compatible, little things like the extra moulded socket for the front hand rail on the step cill beam (just beside the F marking at the front)
Where Overland really wins is below the hem line, there is no comparison between the two, Ford Focus viz Aston Martin DB9, though with a little effort the Atlas can be upgraded to Focus ST quite easily.
Some scale wheels, possibly P48, though I'm heading more toward a garden roundy roundy for the US stuff as opposed to an uber detail shunting plank/diorama affair.
New 3D printed truck frames with narrow mounting lugs will move them inboard, the Dash 8 trucks did not have single direction facing traction motors, thus there is no need for the rear transom seen on later models where all traction motors face the same way; that way two side frames are all that is required. Some faux side cills and some detail around the tank and reservoirs would tickle the underside nicely.
I never did see any UP Dash 8's, they're all gone now anyway, but back in 2013 and 2015 they abounded in central Florida and despite their age, were often used on point. According to reports, they're still gong strong as well.
Cracking along at 40MPH through the everglades, 13,000 HP and six tank wagons, so no issues keeping to track speed, actually here it's 60MPH but the driver is just rolling south toward Dade City at a steady pace.
Rolling south and the howl from the DC traction motors is just awesome; not as loud as rolling down grade through Fenner on full dynamics holding back 12,000t at 70MPH mind.
Nice side shot that shows the uneven arrangement of traction motors, leading and intermediate axles have a trailing traction motor, the trailing axle has a leading traction motor, it makes for a very compact truck but limits the size of traction motor you can fit. The advent of larger AC traction motors precluded this arrangement unless the axle spacing was increased between the intermediate and rear axle. Thus the rear motor was turned around but then the motor need somewhere to hang from, hence the introduction of the transom.
Still rolling south through Knights, one of four units in the consist, 7675 is just idling along for the ride, as was the SD40-2 trailing that and the rear unit (forgot to note down), 7859 up front is doing all the work and the weight of three trailing engine far exceeded the six tank wagons in tow.
As with many things GE, the tale does not end there, following the Dash 8 was the Dash 9, more often as not rated at 4400 over the 4000/4100 of the Dash 8. The bigger engine required a longer frame and revised cubicles.
But, before the Dash 9 got into full flow there were a few hybrids knocking around, one of these being CSX 9000 class, built as C44-9W CSX decided to increase their running hours by derating the engines to 4000HP and classified them as C40-9W, a class of only 52 engines.
More interestingly they decided to do all that on the shorter Dash 8 chassis, there are some subtle differences, although the chassis is Dash 8 it carries the new six rung access steps of the Dash 9, as opposed to five on the Dash 8 and the nose filler spouts are now vertical, not parallel with the sheet metal work like the Dash 8.
CSX derated Dash 9, 9004 piles on the power as it and two Dash 8's lift a 100+ car manifest upgrade at Vitis Junction, you can't beat Dash 8's and 9's in run 8, they are so loud.
The train has come off the Vitis Subdivision and in all probability originated in Winston yard, though it could of originated in Taft or Tampa, destination unknown. To the right is the line to Plant City on the Yeoman Subdivision and the train is now on the Wildwood Subdivision.
Trains leaving Winston can get here two ways, turn right to Lakeland, then left to Vitis (here) or turn left to Plant City and then right to Vitis (here), confused
well that's what happens when you cherry pick which two historically parallel systems you choose to retain going forward. Florida is criss crossed with the A and S lines, originally SCL and ACL, both competing for the same traffic and often running parallel lines. CSX merged these and then cherry picked the best sections and joined them all up.The Vitis, Plant City, Lakeland triangle is always busy (for Florida) and makes train chasing quite exciting, especially if you don;t have a scanner.
Anyway. I'm rambling, back to the Atlas Dash 8, having no real affinity for UP versions this little venture has reopened my interest in Florida's Bone Valley operations and revived some special memories, and that I think, is worth more than any super detailed model. So, I think in due time she will become one of Florida's work weary war horses, battered and weathered. The MTH ES44 will be my UP fix for now.
In closing, despite it's RTR pedigree, I'll certainly be looking out to grab more of them, especially at that price, more so 2 railers, but will consider 3 railers at a push, at sub £200 and despite shipping, they are very good bang for buck.
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Jordan
Mid-Western Thunderer
Shows how much I haven't kept up with the modern US scene! Something I would think of as right up to date is already withdrawn.
my interest really is stuck with 1st & 2nd generation diesels, even if I'm trying to bring my model Short Line more up to date than the 1980s regarding rolling stock.I wouldn't mind an Atlas Dash-8 with wide cab in BNSF to act as Class 1 feeder to my line, but it'd have to be a 4-axle B rather than 6-axle C, to cope with the rough track of my interchange siding. Anyway it's just a 'nice to have/want', other things have priority at the moment.
Big Train James
Western Thunderer
Jordan, what you (and many others including myself) need is a good gp38-2 model. I won't bother starting with a Lionel or MTH model as I don't trust them at all, so that's a firm no. The Weaver isn't even really a gp38-2 in many respects, but rather just a gp38 with a couple of dash 2 details. I'm not even sure I would bother using it as a kitbash/upgrade starting point unless I got the donor for crazy cheap money. Even then I would probably end up replacing so much of it that I should just start from scratch.
My longstanding goal for 2nd gen EMD locos, meaning primarily the gp38-2 and the sd40-2, is to work up etched metal chassis with decent single motor drives, and cobble the superstructures together from the many cab and hood parts available in styrene from Atlas. Of course, eventually it ends up making sense to just etch everything, but I'll start with baby steps. Certain detail parts will need to be created from scratch, either to improve the RTR versions, or to add parts that are not yet part of the Atlas lineup - like an extended range dynamic brake blister.
In the meantime, your best bet for a more modern 4 axle loco would be the Atlas gp15-1. Although finding one in 2-rail can be a challenge. Like Mick's Dash 8-40, the gp15-1 is a Trainman model, but it's decent if simplistic.
My longstanding goal for 2nd gen EMD locos, meaning primarily the gp38-2 and the sd40-2, is to work up etched metal chassis with decent single motor drives, and cobble the superstructures together from the many cab and hood parts available in styrene from Atlas. Of course, eventually it ends up making sense to just etch everything, but I'll start with baby steps. Certain detail parts will need to be created from scratch, either to improve the RTR versions, or to add parts that are not yet part of the Atlas lineup - like an extended range dynamic brake blister.
In the meantime, your best bet for a more modern 4 axle loco would be the Atlas gp15-1. Although finding one in 2-rail can be a challenge. Like Mick's Dash 8-40, the gp15-1 is a Trainman model, but it's decent if simplistic.
Brian McKenzie
Western Thunderer
Some very snappy photography in your last post, Mickoo. I mean it's so sharp, my fingers would get cut if handling prints. 
I don't ordinarily watch videos of American trains, but this one popped up in the Youtube feed - and even the missus was transfixed when we watched/listened to it on TV (with better speakers than the tinny computer ones).
What's the logo on the mid-train helpers?
I don't ordinarily watch videos of American trains, but this one popped up in the Youtube feed - and even the missus was transfixed when we watched/listened to it on TV (with better speakers than the tinny computer ones).
Big Train James
Western Thunderer
Montana Rail Link. They operate a bridge route over the ex Northern Pacific main. Which often entails helping BNSF traffic over their line.
mickoo
Western Thunderer
ThanksSome very snappy photography in your last post, Mickoo. I mean it's so sharp, my fingers would get cut if handling prints.
I don't ordinarily watch videos of American trains, but this one popped up in the Youtube feed - and even the missus was transfixed when we watched/listened to it on TV (with better speakers than the tinny computer ones).
What's the logo on the mid-train helpers?
, with 30,000 plus photos one or two are in focus Oh, that's a keeper, three ES44's (AC4400 rad section...early models... so matches the MTH RTR model) up front, four SD70ACe's mid train and a solo SD70ACe on the rear, the difference in sound is clear to hear. Even up at that height the GEVO's are loud, sat under an overpass and conversation is impossible; the thudding exhaust goes right through your chest....love it!
Even then, ES44 are not as loud as AC4400 or even close to a Dash 9 for DB levels.
There's one or two places y'all can go and get deafened if you choose.
Steins hill (or the Bowl as it's sometimes called) near the Davis Ranch crossing is good, bit windy up here and I15 is far enough away not to be a niggle.
Palmdale cutoff is to the right so you get pretty much all of the traffic except Main 3 which is way yonder behind the pylons. Last time I was here they sent a couple up these lines and about five or six down Main 3 but most of the time this is busy.
Davis Ranch crossing is always good, not as loud as other places but a great place to watch them swing around the curve, the sun stays late here until it dips below the San Bernadino mountains to the right. Again, Palmdale cutoff is to the right and easy to access, but at this time of day you need to be on the outside to be sunny side up (one of my bucket locations for this years vacation).
A bit further up right next to the I15 is noisy point...obvious really as the I15 is noisy, think this area used to be called Breezy point, it's that as well.
This is a real Forrest Gump 'lifes a box of chocolates' location, you can hear them but until they pop around the corner you have no idea whats in the consist. To the right is the Palmdale cut off, near enough to hear the odd train, too far to run and get the shot though. You're limited for locations here, just close and dirty really.
Hill 582 has a small outcrop at about stack height, so good for sound but in my view, poor for photos, straight up and down really, very hard to work the angles and get anything more than the bog standard 3/4 view.
Early morning is best with the sun on the face but it doesn't take long to swing around, get high and bring on the typical hot haze and dreaded colour cast. Panoramic vista shots are best early morning and late afternoon to avoid the haze and get colours that pop, any other time you're better off getting close and dirty.
Further down is the H138 overpass, easy access and you can work the location well, both up and down grade, up grade being the Mormon Rocks area. The H138 is a busy road so a crap shoot for audio.
The train is crossing whats called Drawbar flats and in the back ground is the cut for the Palmdale cut off, Mains 1 & 2 (of which 7759 is on Main 1) swings to the left of that small hill, probably one of my top 3 spots on Cajon pass.
The aforementioned grassy knoll.
To the left is Main 3 and to the right is the Palmdale Cutoff so you get to see everything, though photos on Main 3 are limited. I15 is in the background and can be audible if the wind is from that direction, it's quite breezy here and wind burn is a factor. I tend to sit on the up side as you get a good view up to H138, and, in the distance Davis Ranch crossing and a small glimpse as far as Alray; that way nothing coming downgrade can bounce you.
Anything coming upgrade is audible from probably as far as Bluecut and certainly from Cajon depot, if the engine isn't loud enough then leaning on the horn for the crossings certainly is.
There is another grassy knoll to the rear right, probably as good as this one, maybe slightly better as it looks down into and around Sullivans curve and is photogenically more interesting, there's not a lot to choose between them other then the southern one being slightly worse off for trains on Main 3.
Looking downgrade from the lower grassy knoll toward Sullivans curve on the Palmdale Cutoff. Both knolls are good for audio and excellent for top down detail shots of engines, speed is often low enough to grab one or two extra close up detail shots, though West Colton Pepper Ave is way better for that sort of work.
Leaving Cajon and heading east there's a couple of other nice places, Kingman Canyon has two locations, one is quite popular and looks west showing trains coming up the grade.
As far as the railroad is concerned, Kingman is a cliff set between upper and lower plains, there is only one real way up this cliff, a canyon carved out by a long lost river. The line splits in two here, both bi-directional but the newer higher grade tends to be used for trains going upgrade to the east., the lower grade is flatter at the base of the canyon but has a very steep short section up into Kingman.
This is the higher grade next to the famous and well photographed Sante Fe bridge, we're basically at the bottom end of the canyon and the lower line is to the right background. There's little other noise distractions here so audio is great and you're up real close.
One word of warning, this area is frequently used by the locals as a shooting range, they tend not to aim up here and use old mattresses and whatever down under the bridge and to the left in the shot above. It's un-nerving but I've not had too much trouble yet, evenings are worse or weekends, but mid week during the working day I've not seen any action.
The lower line is just visible to the left of #5626 nose. In the far distance the train is passing through a very small rock cut, more an outcrop they decided not to remove. This is a real box of chocolates location and for the sake of safety you should really wear ear plugs.
You get about two minutes warning of a train coming up the grade and about three or four seconds to compose, it's also hot down here, little wind and sun burn is a real risk, as slips trips and falls. Getting up here is not that easy as these rocks are not as small as they look, most are small car sized and there is a risk of injury, there's also no real safe place to leave you're vehicle where you can keep an eye on it. You can either leave it off road by the water works entrance or a bit further up by the pipeline.
Moving further east are two really nice locations. The first is N Belle Springs Rd just to the west of Flagstaff, it's a small track that ends in the forest by the railroad, it's quiet, safe and just a really nice place to relax.
I've yet to explore further down the grade toward Flagstaff but there should be some real nice views up that hill to the left. BNSF 4256 is grinding up the grade to the Continental divide a few miles away. Its not god for the sun here as it's always on your face on this side of the line, though that location down by the Autorack bears investigation.
Another picture postcard shot late in the evening.
Finally we come to Cosnino to the east of Flagstaff, despite looking flat, it's not, again a nice location and a shallow rock cut gives you excellent audio, you can work this spot all day, it's safe, very easy access and if you wanted could just sit in the rental and shoot trains all day.
BNSF #5056 is heading east downgrade toward Winslow and into the rock cut, we're only 15 miles east of N Belle Springs Rd and the scenery has changed dramatically, in another 15 the shrubs are half this size and another 15 more and you're into desert terrain.
BNSF 5246 works up the grade at Cosnino.
Back in 2018 this was my first true rail fan (no family clingons) spot I visited, checking into the motel it was nearly dark but I came here afterward and loved it. On my last day in 2018 I had the morning to kill and decided to not chase trains but just sit and watch, I came here and saw 20+ trains in four hours.
I'm sure I've posted many of these before, but what the hell, I'm really missing my vacation this year.
Yorkshire Dave
Western Thunderer
The other obvious gap is a GP40/GP40-2.
Jordan
Mid-Western Thunderer
My intended CSX GP38-2 is of course a much-modified Weaver, and my GP40 was a kitbash of one using Atlas SD40 & GP35 parts; I didn't pay silly money for them (either too much, or dirt cheap!) but with all the bits have ended up costing rather more than I care to work out.
Currently expecting some Canon FN30 motors from across The Pond to help redress the running issue I've had with the GP40, & posted about elsewhere on WT & Over There.
Agree about the big holes in 2-rail O diesel ranges. You forgot to add CF7....
sprints for cover...
Big Train James
Western Thunderer
I didn't forget.....Agree about the big holes in 2-rail O diesel ranges. You forgot to add CF7....
sprints for cover...
Lancastrian
Western Thunderer
Some really nice photos there Mick.
Was there anyone else on the "grassy knoll" ?
Ian
Was there anyone else on the "grassy knoll" ?
Ian
mickoo
Western Thunderer
Cheers, I am missing my fix, that's for sure.Some really nice photos there Mick.
Was there anyone else on the "grassy knoll" ?
Ian
I didn't see anyone, but then again, neither did anyone else
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mickoo
Western Thunderer
Okay little bit of progress on the second test etch, there will already be a third, it's a bit two steps forward and one back, some of it is own goals, others down to the etch process and the foibles of time in the tank etc, the rest down to poor design features or implementation of them.
Some new parts here, the most obvious being the double glazed cab windows, a triple etch affair they drop into holes in the main skin for alignment, they take some time and need a little care but overall they can stay on the sheet. Less obvious is the cab side support rib, it's a one piece etch that drops down to thicken the cill and wrap around the front by the step turn in's, it all fitted first time so that can stay.
From the rear the new overlay over the battery boxes is evident, the anti slip pimples are just visible, probably close to scale but once painted might become near invisible, I've increased their size on V3.
The inspection hatches are individual and here's the point where etch time in the tank shows. despite being drawn with a 0.1 mm gap all around it's clearly more than that which indicates a long tank time, which may also indicate why the tread pimples are so small as well.
To be fair the item sizes are based on a material I normally use, o.375 mm, in this case I've gone fore 0.45 mm for strength so may well drop back to 0.375 for V3 and am actually considering 0.3 mm. This of course has implications in tab and slot sizes as well as bend lines and general alignment, not a course of action taken lightly given the size of the etch we have already reached.
Also evident is the gap between the cab rear wall and roof, neither the rear wall or cab changed from V2 but there is now a 0.4 - 0.5 mm gap Two choices here, the right one and the easy bodge.
The right one requires the cab roof to be split and a 1 mm slot taken out, not on the model (not worried about the gap on the model) but in the artwork; that means both cab sides have to shunt toward each other by 0.5 mm, as do all the openings, bend lines, tabs and boundaries.
The bodge is to simply either raise the cab rear centre by 0.5 mm or the shoulders down by 0.5 mm. I will wait until the windscreen is in and check the heights then; it may be the cab roof is right and the rear wall is wrong.
On the Inverter side is another antislip overlay, not sure why I did this, it's only in place with double sided tape, but re checking my photos, I cannot find any evidence of antislip tread plates up here, it looks good but will not go forward to V3.
The conductors side support ribs are a little more complex, made more so by my leaving the rear vertical bar outline on the cab side, consequently I ended up with a trough here in the etch when filled. This needed to be filled with a strip of 0.25 mm and blended in before the overlay could be added....both feet....one bullet
At the top of the inverter cabinet are the handrail supports, U shaped items that pass up through the top and fit around posts attached to the side, robust, functional and will move forward to V3.
They look large because in real life they are large, at some point in the ES44 production line, GE upgraded all handrail supports to a larger thicker type; maybe they copied Atlas or MTH Eitherway that are significantly larger and stronger and thus fall into the fold up etch area, I've got them to add later but other work is required first.
Pretty much as above.
A slightly higher view shows the pilot deck tread plate, couple of errors here, the V recess doesn't quite match the folded model nose, a simple fix, more annoyingly it's a perfect match for the main plate underneath, it shouldn't be. At the front is the anti climber extension and that will have a wall to go around it below deck level, thus the tread plate will be short by 0.45 mm around the front edges.
In reality this isn't so bad as the tread plates at both ends are indeed added and welded on overlays to the main deck, they do have a small recess for the weld bead but not 0.45 mm, more like 0.2 mm, it shall be so on V3.
Couple of issues here moving forward, the cab door is a triple overlay to make up all the levels and depth of the real thing, they are a substantial affair, there is an opening in the nose front so you could pose the door open. However, and not so easily seen here, the opening is very close to the bend line for the flat section of the nose front.
A crop of the etch shows where the error I made was. The two red lines are the bend lines underneath, but look at the door opening, the rear layer opening has been offset toward the middle by a couple of mm.
This means that the area from the door edge RH side nearest the centre line is in fact half etched underneath, so, the left hand fold was never going to work well at all. I ended up soldering a strip on the inside to support the half etched area and it sort of came good, but not good enough.
Not withstanding this jovial visit from C'tain cock up, the bend area on a correct etch is still very small and yes the bend does go on the inside of the headlight enclosure opening on the real deal. It is manageable until you get to the next step, add the nose door.
The joint between nose front and sloped top is rounded off quite a lot, you need to fold the nose up and then bevel the edges before you add the nose door assembly. Now I knew what was coming after V1, so soldered the joint in 228°C and rounded off.
Adding the door is next to impossible to solder from the inside, unless you add the door before you fit the nose front, possible, but creates issues when cleaning up other edges and rounding off the side pillars. Even so, getting in and out with 145°C is hard, especially from the outside and getting a decent bead to flow. The triple layer soaks up a lot of heat and the end result was the 228°C running out of the above joint and leaving a small exposed seam
I've got a solution already, which is used on the roof panels and cab rear door which I'll show and explain later, but, it'll require the nose front to be solid. Currently the three door etches consist of a bed plate attached to the nose, an inner and outer layer on the door.
As seen on V1 here.
The bed plate can be tacked on from the outside and then the door simply glued in place, this is what I should of done here, but because I already knew I was having a closed door I simply invited our old friend CCU and his merry gang in for cheese, biscuits and a sherry!
Moving on I have to work out how much of having an open front door means to me, it's a high wish list item, especially detailed out and lit, but not at the cost of making it prohibitively difficult to build.
Final view, high up view of the battery box walkway.
It's hard to see but the main overlay is damaged, two reasons for this, one, I put a tab at the thinnest part near the hatches, two, the half etch process causes the etch to curl once removed from the fret, consequently the straightening and tab removal buckled the plate work and once buckled it never goes flat again.
The conundrum moving forward, is how to prevent it happening again, the tab is easy, move elsewhere, but the curling and straightening not so, not just this flat plate but other work I do, large half etched flat plates are a witch to work with.
Some new parts here, the most obvious being the double glazed cab windows, a triple etch affair they drop into holes in the main skin for alignment, they take some time and need a little care but overall they can stay on the sheet. Less obvious is the cab side support rib, it's a one piece etch that drops down to thicken the cill and wrap around the front by the step turn in's, it all fitted first time so that can stay.
From the rear the new overlay over the battery boxes is evident, the anti slip pimples are just visible, probably close to scale but once painted might become near invisible, I've increased their size on V3.
The inspection hatches are individual and here's the point where etch time in the tank shows. despite being drawn with a 0.1 mm gap all around it's clearly more than that which indicates a long tank time, which may also indicate why the tread pimples are so small as well.
To be fair the item sizes are based on a material I normally use, o.375 mm, in this case I've gone fore 0.45 mm for strength so may well drop back to 0.375 for V3 and am actually considering 0.3 mm. This of course has implications in tab and slot sizes as well as bend lines and general alignment, not a course of action taken lightly given the size of the etch we have already reached.
Also evident is the gap between the cab rear wall and roof, neither the rear wall or cab changed from V2 but there is now a 0.4 - 0.5 mm gap
Two choices here, the right one and the easy bodge. The right one requires the cab roof to be split and a 1 mm slot taken out, not on the model (not worried about the gap on the model) but in the artwork; that means both cab sides have to shunt toward each other by 0.5 mm, as do all the openings, bend lines, tabs and boundaries.
The bodge is to simply either raise the cab rear centre by 0.5 mm or the shoulders down by 0.5 mm. I will wait until the windscreen is in and check the heights then; it may be the cab roof is right and the rear wall is wrong.
On the Inverter side is another antislip overlay, not sure why I did this, it's only in place with double sided tape, but re checking my photos, I cannot find any evidence of antislip tread plates up here, it looks good but will not go forward to V3.
The conductors side support ribs are a little more complex, made more so by my leaving the rear vertical bar outline on the cab side, consequently I ended up with a trough here in the etch when filled. This needed to be filled with a strip of 0.25 mm and blended in before the overlay could be added....both feet....one bullet
At the top of the inverter cabinet are the handrail supports, U shaped items that pass up through the top and fit around posts attached to the side, robust, functional and will move forward to V3.
They look large because in real life they are large, at some point in the ES44 production line, GE upgraded all handrail supports to a larger thicker type; maybe they copied Atlas or MTH
Eitherway that are significantly larger and stronger and thus fall into the fold up etch area, I've got them to add later but other work is required first.Pretty much as above.
A slightly higher view shows the pilot deck tread plate, couple of errors here, the V recess doesn't quite match the folded model nose, a simple fix, more annoyingly it's a perfect match for the main plate underneath, it shouldn't be. At the front is the anti climber extension and that will have a wall to go around it below deck level, thus the tread plate will be short by 0.45 mm around the front edges.
In reality this isn't so bad as the tread plates at both ends are indeed added and welded on overlays to the main deck, they do have a small recess for the weld bead but not 0.45 mm, more like 0.2 mm, it shall be so on V3.
Couple of issues here moving forward, the cab door is a triple overlay to make up all the levels and depth of the real thing, they are a substantial affair, there is an opening in the nose front so you could pose the door open. However, and not so easily seen here, the opening is very close to the bend line for the flat section of the nose front.
A crop of the etch shows where the error I made was. The two red lines are the bend lines underneath, but look at the door opening, the rear layer opening has been offset toward the middle by a couple of mm.
This means that the area from the door edge RH side nearest the centre line is in fact half etched underneath, so, the left hand fold was never going to work well at all. I ended up soldering a strip on the inside to support the half etched area and it sort of came good, but not good enough.
Not withstanding this jovial visit from C'tain cock up, the bend area on a correct etch is still very small and yes the bend does go on the inside of the headlight enclosure opening on the real deal. It is manageable until you get to the next step, add the nose door.
The joint between nose front and sloped top is rounded off quite a lot, you need to fold the nose up and then bevel the edges before you add the nose door assembly. Now I knew what was coming after V1, so soldered the joint in 228°C and rounded off.
Adding the door is next to impossible to solder from the inside, unless you add the door before you fit the nose front, possible, but creates issues when cleaning up other edges and rounding off the side pillars. Even so, getting in and out with 145°C is hard, especially from the outside and getting a decent bead to flow. The triple layer soaks up a lot of heat and the end result was the 228°C running out of the above joint and leaving a small exposed seam
I've got a solution already, which is used on the roof panels and cab rear door which I'll show and explain later, but, it'll require the nose front to be solid. Currently the three door etches consist of a bed plate attached to the nose, an inner and outer layer on the door.
As seen on V1 here.
The bed plate can be tacked on from the outside and then the door simply glued in place, this is what I should of done here, but because I already knew I was having a closed door I simply invited our old friend CCU and his merry gang in for cheese, biscuits and a sherry!
Moving on I have to work out how much of having an open front door means to me, it's a high wish list item, especially detailed out and lit, but not at the cost of making it prohibitively difficult to build.
Final view, high up view of the battery box walkway.
It's hard to see but the main overlay is damaged, two reasons for this, one, I put a tab at the thinnest part near the hatches, two, the half etch process causes the etch to curl once removed from the fret, consequently the straightening and tab removal buckled the plate work and once buckled it never goes flat again.
The conundrum moving forward, is how to prevent it happening again, the tab is easy, move elsewhere, but the curling and straightening not so, not just this flat plate but other work I do, large half etched flat plates are a witch to work with.
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JasonD
Western Thunderer
Great pics and at last, a good picture of the Santa Fe's Gull-Wing cab, even if it is on a model! Pic 3 in msg #1327 above - Atlas have them on their model, but I've never seen a good pic, even of the real thing! I can't believe how little interest there seems to have been in the Atlas model at a cracking price. Anyway, house move over, lockdown over, project list hahahahahahaha..., Des Plaines have probably still got Wvr 38 to 38-2 and 40-2 parts for us in a hurry!
Jason
Jason
mickoo
Western Thunderer
Gull wings abound aplenty on BNSF you just need to keep an eye out for them. All of their Dash 9s are gull wing, earlier batches still retain their ATSF warbonnet scheme, some wear it better than others, later batches have the Heritage II scheme...often called 'Cigar Band' scheme; my favourite BNSF scheme and the only one you cannot get decals for.
Most Dash 9's are mid consist or DPU.
BNSF 752 just coming out of Sullivans curve toward the lower grassy knoll, the rest of the train is strung behind it in the background lopoed around the horseshoe curve, a nice NS Stallion Dash 9 behind too.
BNSF 744 at Keenbrook crossing heading up Cajon Pass.
BNSF 699 and 5377 roar up Cajon pass at Silverwood, running a 2 x 2 set up with loaded stone this was the fastest train I ever saw go up Cajon Pass, easily at track limit which I think is 40mph here, they did sound good
I missed the head end because this was rolling downgrade, opposing meets are a pain, but when Cajon gets busy they are common.
Probably the best shot I have that shows the gull wing roof profile, BNSF 5629 DPU just under the H138 overpass and heading up past Mormon rocks.
Whilst Dash 9's are not common on the head end, it does happen.
A rather battered and faded BNSF 4585 heads a double stack down Cajon Pass at Silverwood. It's midday sun and that dreaded LA haze makes it difficult to get crisp clean shots, the wider the angle the worse the colour cast becomes.
In slightly better condition is BNSF 4023 romping up the grade at East Danby.
The train is climbing out of the desert, relative because it's all desert here, of the lower Mojave desert around Cadiz and Amboy, in the background the Clipper mountains dominate the norther boundary of the lower arid region. The lowest Railroad point being Amboy at 620' ASL, here at Danby just 26 miles up the grade we're at 1351' ASL and Goffs just another 23 miles distant is 2599' ASL.
On my next visit I'm determined to rough it in Needles for a few nights, perhaps bust the daily motel budget for something a little more up market and explore the Needles sub a lot more between Needles and Barstow, maybe even try and find somewhere decent in Barstow (not a nice place by all accounts). Needles does have the advantage of being a crew change point and the Antrak station is open which gives good views of the stationary trains, so some night shots might be in order.
Cajon or Hesperia where I usually stay is 150 miles away, dawn/dusk is the best light so the two/three hour drive each end is a killer.
Most Dash 9's are mid consist or DPU.
BNSF 752 just coming out of Sullivans curve toward the lower grassy knoll, the rest of the train is strung behind it in the background lopoed around the horseshoe curve, a nice NS Stallion Dash 9 behind too.
BNSF 744 at Keenbrook crossing heading up Cajon Pass.
BNSF 699 and 5377 roar up Cajon pass at Silverwood, running a 2 x 2 set up with loaded stone this was the fastest train I ever saw go up Cajon Pass, easily at track limit which I think is 40mph here, they did sound good
I missed the head end because this was rolling downgrade, opposing meets are a pain, but when Cajon gets busy they are common.
Probably the best shot I have that shows the gull wing roof profile, BNSF 5629 DPU just under the H138 overpass and heading up past Mormon rocks.
Whilst Dash 9's are not common on the head end, it does happen.
A rather battered and faded BNSF 4585 heads a double stack down Cajon Pass at Silverwood. It's midday sun and that dreaded LA haze makes it difficult to get crisp clean shots, the wider the angle the worse the colour cast becomes.
In slightly better condition is BNSF 4023 romping up the grade at East Danby.
The train is climbing out of the desert, relative because it's all desert here, of the lower Mojave desert around Cadiz and Amboy, in the background the Clipper mountains dominate the norther boundary of the lower arid region. The lowest Railroad point being Amboy at 620' ASL, here at Danby just 26 miles up the grade we're at 1351' ASL and Goffs just another 23 miles distant is 2599' ASL.
On my next visit I'm determined to rough it in Needles for a few nights, perhaps bust the daily motel budget for something a little more up market and explore the Needles sub a lot more between Needles and Barstow, maybe even try and find somewhere decent in Barstow (not a nice place by all accounts). Needles does have the advantage of being a crew change point and the Antrak station is open which gives good views of the stationary trains, so some night shots might be in order.
Cajon or Hesperia where I usually stay is 150 miles away, dawn/dusk is the best light so the two/three hour drive each end is a killer.