7mm US model dabblings

mickoo

Western Thunderer
Mick,
I suspect you just need to spend some time looking at the Atlas 0 store. E.g. With five mins searching on the way to work this morning I found a GP9 power truck assembly on this page: https://secure.atlasrr.com/ato1/ite...=140804&iTpStatus=0&Tp=&sTitle=&FromNav=False
Admittedly it's three rail, but the items you want are on there...
Steph
Well, how bizzare, I looked through those lists time and again until I was dizzy and did not see that, I will take 100 lines and sit at the back of the class LOL

Further, if you hold the cursor over the text description and look at the URL link (shows up at the bottom of my page) it has the part number in the link info, and they look to be in numerical order and part 140952 is not present, not under that model but being a common part may be under another loco list, more anon.
 
S

Simon Dunkley

Guest
Still unsure which scale to adopt, PROTO 1:48 or go with S7 to US loading gauge, there are issue with both, the former requires a different layout to suit the narrower track, the latter will have bogies (if sourced elsewhere) that are too small (wheelbase) and stock slightly smaller, or just build to 1:48 on S7 track.
The problem is that you are trying to get compatibility between two different scales, with both modelled to an accurate gauge for the scale. Not possible, and somewhere along the way, you have no choice but to compromise. That said, you do have a variety of options, some of which you have noted, but there are also some others. I suggest you consider the following possibilities:
1) Separate layouts, each modelled to the correct scale:gauge ratio;
2) Use Proto:48 track and wheel standards, but have your UK models built otherwise to 7mm scale;
3) Forsake the existing British market, and model exclusively to Proto:48 develop your own 1:48 range of components, etc;
4) Forsake the US market, and build everything to 7mm scale and S7 standards.

Option 1 would require storage space, but is probably the easiest. Option 2 is very workable, but you will lose out on the ability to run your 7mm stock on S7 or indeed 0 gauge layouts. Options 3 and 4 are mentioned in case you want a real challenge!

Forget that 1:43.5 and 1:48 are both called 0 gauge, and start from the premise that they are different enough to require a separate approach. See if you can accept that approach, and the consequences of it (two layouts) and if not, consider other alternatives and more importantly, what you want to achieve.

As a more exaggerated example, you wouldn't try to run Proto:87 and P4 on the same layout, and if you mix 1:32, 1:30.5 and 1:29 on 45mm track, the visual results can be awful.
 

mickoo

Western Thunderer
The problem is that you are trying to get compatibility between two different scales, with both modelled to an accurate gauge for the scale. Not possible, and somewhere along the way, you have no choice but to compromise. That said, you do have a variety of options, some of which you have noted, but there are also some others. I suggest you consider the following possibilities:
1) Separate layouts, each modelled to the correct scale:gauge ratio;
2) Use Proto:48 track and wheel standards, but have your UK models built otherwise to 7mm scale;
3) Forsake the existing British market, and model exclusively to Proto:48 develop your own 1:48 range of components, etc;
4) Forsake the US market, and build everything to 7mm scale and S7 standards.

Option 1 would require storage space, but is probably the easiest. Option 2 is very workable, but you will lose out on the ability to run your 7mm stock on S7 or indeed 0 gauge layouts. Options 3 and 4 are mentioned in case you want a real challenge!

Forget that 1:43.5 and 1:48 are both called 0 gauge, and start from the premise that they are different enough to require a separate approach. See if you can accept that approach, and the consequences of it (two layouts) and if not, consider other alternatives and more importantly, what you want to achieve.

As a more exaggerated example, you wouldn't try to run Proto:87 and P4 on the same layout, and if you mix 1:32, 1:30.5 and 1:29 on 45mm track, the visual results can be awful.

Simon agree with all that 100%

Simple the choice is, to compromise or to not....in best Yoda voice.

The two scales are certainly different enough to warrent separate trains of though/ modeling, where it goes pear shaped is exisitng US stockists (Atlas, MTH, Railking etc) that model in 1:48 but use (and I'm presuming here) 1:43.5 track or O fine scale.

What do I want to achieve, simply US out line in S7 would be nice but it would mean a compromise in some areas, a lot actually, mainly if you were to run alongised existing 1:48 models, which in reality wouldnt be very often as I bet the number of US stock built to run on S7 is globally about zero! The other compromise would be in detail parts, your loco, lets say a GP-38-2 would be in 1:43.5 yet your trucks would be shorter (width can be adjusted) and if you used S7 wheels would foul brake gear...so you'd probably end up with under sized wheels. Other details that are easier bought, fans and their housings etc would be slightly undersize for the model, about 10% by my rough calculations.

To be honest if your prepared to model in S7 then there really is only one option, that being PROTO:48, if your prepared to adopt the S7 mind set of P/Way tolerances for UK outline then you really have to do the same for US outline, or, just model in 1:48 on S7 track and accept the compromise in gauge if you want one layout only.

What a mess :headbang:
 

mickoo

Western Thunderer
So how is that nice, soothing, MMP Class 08?

regards, Barking in the yard.
It would be nice, except my hand injury precludes working on it, hence the push on CAD work and the conceptual design work I'm doing of late, besides, I need a project on the laptop when states side in the next few weeks and draughting up CAD work for US diesels seems a nice way to wash away a day with Micky bleedin plastic mouse! :D
 

mickoo

Western Thunderer
That's a relief - I was worried in case I had gone too far!

As I have said before - and will say again at every opportunity - there is a very Simple Solution:

S

LOL, I 'WILL' not be assimilated

No need to worry about going too far, I'm in the camp of taking all the information I can get....it might take awhile to digest and probably considerably longer to understand....there is a subtle difference LOL....but overall I tend to get the gist, I think? Well as much I think I need to :thumbs:
 

mickoo

Western Thunderer
An update from the very nice man at Atlas, if the part is not listed on their web parts page....it ain't stocked, thus part 140952 Blomberg B side frame is no longer in stock and will not be for some time and thus not listed on any loco parts lists....which explains why I couldn't see it :thumbs:. The complete trucks are though, so thanks to Steph for seeing more wood than I saw trees.
 

mickoo

Western Thunderer
Additional update, PSC do not stock Blombergs either.

From the, how shall we say, 'conservatively' short (14 words) reply I can only guess they never have. On the upside they hope to add their catalogues as pdf downloads by next month.

I see a session or two in 3DStudioMax by the poolside coming up shortly.
 

Steph Dale

Western Thunderer
Additional update, PSC do not stock Blombergs either.

From the, how shall we say, 'conservatively' short (14 words) reply I can only guess they never have. On the upside they hope to add their catalogues as pdf downloads by next month.

I see a session or two in 3DStudioMax by the poolside coming up shortly.

Mick,

Until you posted that I was 100% convinced they did. Unfortunately I don't have the PSC 0-gauge lists here. But Yorkshire Dave of this parish has so you might try a quick PM to him. Tell him I sent you... :))

Steph
 

Jordan

Mid-Western Thunderer
I need a lie down after the last two pages of this thread....:confused: I just like modelling US outline...:oops:

The funny thing about US O Scale is that people tend to forget that it's not double the size of HO... someone mentioned to me a while back that he'd compared an O scale Covered Hopper with an HO one, and was surprised that it wasn't twice the length. He'd not realised that HO at 1:87 is actually half of British O at 1:43.5, not half of US O at 1:48, because - as is often forgotten because 4mm/OO is so dominant - HO was invented in Britain....
 

mickoo

Western Thunderer
Mick,

Until you posted that I was 100% convinced they did. Unfortunately I don't have the PSC 0-gauge lists here. But Yorkshire Dave of this parish has so you might try a quick PM to him. Tell him I sent you... :))

Steph
Steph, you may still be right, I got the distinct impression they didn't want to spend any more than the absolute minimum of time to my questions. Kind of 'buy the catalogue and you'll see what we have' attitude.
 

mickoo

Western Thunderer
I need a lie down after the last two pages of this thread....:confused: I just like modelling US outline...:oops:
You need to lie down! I'm bouncing off the walls trying to wrestle what to do LOL

I think HO was invented in Europe wasn't it?, mind in Europe O gauge is 1:45 so that don't figure. If HO was invented in the UK then why are all our models OO and all European models HO never worked that one out LOL.

Anyway, off to bounce around the walls some more :thumbs:
 

Dog Star

Western Thunderer
Mickoo,

This is going way off of the topic of your S7 modelling... seems to me that maybe you need another thread with a subject line like "Anoraks and how to live with them" or possibly "Mickoo's Modelling Mayhem". One of the Flying Squad might be able to help with suitable medication or maybe you can treat yourself by attending the S7 bash at Brightwell this coming weekend!

regards, Doc Barking
 

mickoo

Western Thunderer
Mickoo,

This is going way off of the topic of your S7 modelling... seems to me that maybe you need another thread with a subject line like "Anoraks and how to live with them" or possibly "Mickoo's Modelling Mayhem". One of the Flying Squad might be able to help with suitable medication or maybe you can treat yourself by attending the S7 bash at Brightwell this coming weekend!

regards, Doc Barking
Agreed, was going to start a new thread last night but other events over came me, the most significant being what to call it LOL. I will do one today and then ask the moderators to move over all the recent US veined threads into that one and leave this as my UK S7 thread, until then y'all feel free to carry on here safe in the knowledge that it'll all be transposed later :).
 

mickoo

Western Thunderer
I have many Anoraks in the cupboard and a rather large and bullish one is American outline. I passed from 4mm modeling up to larger scales primarily due to the mass of gauge 1 US outline. It was a Gauge 1 Southern high nose SD40-2 at Warley I saw a few years back that brought me back full time to railway modeling, and thus the eventual purchase of a GP38 and SD45. Sadly the scale issues and problems sourcing parts to make them more scale like from a PW point of view saw that flower wilt and die away.

So I eventually dropped back to 7mm and finally to S7 for my UK Anorak. Having completed a few trial etches (still to arrive back from the etchers) my mind wandered to fields anew and thus a diversionary path was embarked apon.

Below follows the intial dialogue moved over from the S7 thread. The thread title may change once a clearer direction has been confirmed regarding which scale within a scale has been decided LOL.

>>>>
What's next? not sure, time for some R&R and in true WT scattergun blast away at something at opposite poles to my current work bench (BR), this little foray into Autocad and etching has certainly opened a few doors for projects I was stalled on, namely GP15, MP15AC, GP38 and a fast snoot SD40-2, hell might even go mad with a SD70M or Centennial, but I think the fast 40 or GP15 will win....or will it....blast, so hard picking a new project to begin with LOL. Whatever it is will almost certainly arrive in Armour Yellow and Harbormist Grey, maybe pumpkin green and orange or Warbonnet blue and yellow.

One of the beauties of the EMD range is the common part philosophy most cabs are very similar so once on etch is made up it can be used across several models....I hope, bonnet doors are another example of common user parts.

Ironically I spotted some cast Blombergs on the GoG bring and buy at Kettering...and stupidly put them back, thinking the EMD anorak was well secured, how wrong was I and have nominated myself gold medal in the self arse kicking race! Hopefully I can pick up some side frames from one of the US suppliers like Atlas etc?

I might be gone awhile :thumbs:
 
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