Falcon in 7mm from heljan and other locomotives

richard carr

Western Thunderer
I finally got hold of one of my Heljan 40s it turned out to be the green one.

So here is a comparison to a JLTRT 40 as you can see there are a few differences

park-1.jpgpark-4.jpgpark-7.jpg

As you can see the biggest difference is the rake of the windscreen and the curvature of the end of the nose. The bonnet on the Heljan also appears to be a little flatter to my eye than the JLTRT.

The good thing is they both look like 40s, the roof and the sides seem identical as are the bogie side frames, the pipes on the front of the Heljan look a fair bit finer to me.

Richard
 

oldravendale

Western Thunderer
In the first (more recent) photo the ladder has been removed altogether and I'll guess the other end has been treated the same as well.
D'you know what? I never realised that the EE Type 4s carried ladders! I have a few photos I took in the sixties and none of them have ladders. However, on close inspection D312 and D320 (both at Willesden) show evidence of the fixings on the nose. Unfortunately the pictures of D284 and D352 (at Kings Cross) are not sharp enough to determine whether these fixings are present or not, but as D352 has a four panel headcode it is very unlikely this eer carried ladders.

Just goes to show. New and unexpected information crops up nearly every day. Fascinating!

Brian
 

mickoo

Western Thunderer
Brian, only disc head code locos can carry ladders, all (see below) disc locos have the four fixing bolts, but it's doubtful all were fitted or remained fitted much after 62, Some of the later built ones may never have had ladders fitted but had the bolts fitted just in case. LMR locos started to loose theirs in mid 61 before the last of the discs coded ones were delivered.

Having said that I've one photo dated 66 :eek: I initially dismissed as the photographers fading memory, except midway down the train is a blue grey coach which I think was introduced about that time, 64-66?

What I have just found interesting is that I thought the first ten pilot scheme locos had them and the rest followed, not so, D200-D209 never had nose ladders, bolts or any other fixing, nose ladders only came on the production run from D210 onwards :thumbs:
 

mickoo

Western Thunderer
Richard, is your JLTRT one sitting a little high on the bogies? or is the Heljan one too low, other than that I know which one I'd have, no competition really.

Having said that, if I were a RTR chap then it'd be the Heljan hands down and I'd live with the windscreen and nose shape issues, but given a choice it'd be the JLTRT one...with detailed NS bogies of course ;)

I had planned my JLTRT as green with small yellow panel but your BR blue looks brilliant and is exactly how I remember them from my spotting days, I can foresee me having to get at least two now, one for each period! Actually, I could model 40's all day and probably never get bored :thumbs:
 

richard carr

Western Thunderer
Mick

Yes I think mine is sitting a little high, or the body isn't quite sitting properly on the chassis.
The other thing to bear in mind is the differing colours and lack of weathering do effect how they appear.
I'm still pleased with it and for £500 they are a relative bargin compared to a JLTRT kit.

Richard
 

richard carr

Western Thunderer
Mick

The other thing I was going to ask is when were the 40's air braked because my green heljan 40 has a red train air brake pipe which I don't think is correct, or did they get air brakes when still in green ?


Richard
 

mickoo

Western Thunderer
Richard, oh my, brakes :eek: mine field here, many were dual braked from the mid 60s, but not all of the class were dual braked, some remained vacuum braked to the very end. Some locos were dual braked and then in the last years reverted back to vacuum only.

So yes, you can have an air braked green with small yellow panel and pre tops numbers, in 1970 there were 85 dual braked locos, in 73 there were 120, but not necessarily the same from 71 unless they are typos. By 1980 it had risen to 123 and that's probably near the maximum ever achieved as they were on the run down by then.

Do you have a rough date or numbers you want, I can check them off, a quick scan through the digital collection shows D213 with small yellow panel at Kingmoor as late as 1968, but there's full yellow panel locos as early as 66-67, your best bet is one from the 1970 list, I'm afraid I don't have dates for dual brake fitting, though I suspect it must be out there somewhere;)
 

mickoo

Western Thunderer
Mick

Yes I think mine is sitting a little high, or the body isn't quite sitting properly on the chassis.
The other thing to bear in mind is the differing colours and lack of weathering do effect how they appear.
I'm still pleased with it and for £500 they are a relative bargin compared to a JLTRT kit.

Richard

Richard, don't get me wrong, it's a very nice model (Heljan) as are many of their others, however the discrepancies are deal breakers for me, as is the Deltic tumblehome and nose shape. Having said that I have their class 26 and I'm sure there are bits not quite right there too, but oddly I'm prepared to accept that on a 26 but not a 40 or 55 :confused:.

Dual standards or what LOL
 

SteadyRed

Western Thunderer

Pugsley

Western Thunderer
I don't think it's got anything to do with Babar - it's wearing a hat and looks to be of a different style. There is one in Babar that wears a hat, but the hat is of a different style and it wears something a bit like a sailors outfit.

The shorts are definitely blue:
http://www.class47.co.uk/c47_zoom_v2.php?img=0770050084210

and it appears from the very top left, that the hat is the same colour. The jumper is definitely striped and jumper base colour isn't white, for two reasons. One is that the jumper is no brighter than the elephant colour, which is definitely grey and secondly, the outer edge of the sticker is white, and the jumper is darker than that. It could be yellow, or pink, possibly light blue.

I reckon a pale yellow base, with pink or green stripes wouldn't look out of place. Whatever happens, you can guarantee that a colour picture of the elephant will turn up after you've finished the model!

In terms of size, it appears to be about the same height as the cast Falcon - you could then calculate the approximate width from the black and white picture.
 

Brian Daniels

Western Thunderer
Fred Lewis (Welsh Wizard) of this parish says it was from a birthday card. I think you are right Pugsley, we will have to do a good guess based on that B&W which I too think it's got a bit of a striped shirt on.
 
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