S7'ing Dapol RTR wagons

flexible_coupling

Western Thunderer
Hello all,
I've just been testing out my brand new workbench and have opened up the new toys sent over from Steve Cook, including a Dapol RTR five-plank wagon. My initial hope in altering it to suit S7 was that I could do the same trick as I'd been successfully bodging with the Slaters wheelsets in my other wagons - carefully pressing the wheels out. Sadly, the parallel-style axles used by Dapol are too long and protrude from the axleboxes - as the wheels are pressed out to suit S7 back-to-back*, the front faces rub on the parallel tube bearings and stop the wheels from running freely. I have a few spare pairs of Slaters wheels (not of the split-spoke type Dapol have tried to replicate but I'm not that fussy!) but the outside diameter of the Dapol bearings is larger than that of the Slaters top-hats, of course the stub-ends of the Slaters wheelsets is a smaller diameter than that of the Dapol wheelset. Nothing is interchangeable directly.

Curious to know if Slaters do a top-hat bearing with different outside diameters? Or if anyone can think of a different, clever solution? I am in need of an Exactoscale sprung chassis for a different Slaters wagon, and could conceivably heavily alter the Dapol wagon to suit an internally sprung-and-supported frame... It'd mean having to mill out the webbing under the wagon floor, but I can fix that later with plastic section etc.

DSC_0277_zpsu0j1wgcq.jpg
Just for the sake of it, a snap of the new bench with a nice LED batten light mounted in place, makes it quite a reasonable work space despite the cold! She who absolutely MUST be obeyed is satisfied with its location and will not permit soldering or glue in the house, so I've taken refuge in the garage for the moment.



The * represents my temporary lack of vernier calipers at home - my pair will return home in a few weeks. I'll check a few measurements with the little digital pair at work at some point soon.
 

Overseer

Western Thunderer
Dave,
I know Peter Mann in London bought some Dapol wagons some years ago and has probably converted them to S7. I don't think he is on WT but maybe #Scale7JB or one of the other members of the S7 South East Area Group could ask him to explain how he did it.
 

flexible_coupling

Western Thunderer
I fancy that I might be able to telescope some tube/wrap some paper around the Slaters top-hat bearing to make it fit into the existing axle-box hole and use the Slaters wheels, and I'd be comfortable with that as a way around it. I'll have an experiment later on today and see how it goes.
 

richard carr

Western Thunderer
I haven't converted any dapol wagons yet but the heljan vaa and oba have a similar problem. I have some S7 wheels from peartree the bearings he supplies fit perfectly in the heljan bearing then I just drop in his wheels.

Richard
 

Railwaymaniac

Western Thunderer
Dave;

Firstly, I'm sure that Rob Thompson or someone will be along Real Soon Now to tell you about how to do this, they assured me a week or two ago that there is no known showstopping problems in trying to convert *any* RTR wagon to S7 ...

Secondly, I too tried to put some Slaters S7 wheelsets into a Dapol wagon recently - although I didn't leave them there I did have some thoughts on the subject...
  1. I thought that the pinpoint ends on the Slaters wheelsets were pushing the axleboxes out of line, there may be some future in cutting these off to reduce the overall length of the axle??
  2. I also wondered about those brass sleeve bearings being over long when fitting S7 axles, you might need to either shorten them by about 1mm each? OR you might deepen the holes in the axle boxes by about 1mm either side??
  3. I know that you have them in stock, but Slaters aren't the only S7 wheelsets available - both Peartree and Alan Gibson do them ...
  4. I chance to know that C&L will supply bearings for Gibson axles with the Exactoscale underframes, and they only need reaming out a little bit to make Slaters axles fit in there. AND they are a totally different external diameter to the Slaters bearings. Might be worth trying some of these bearings in a Dapol wagon??
HTH

Ian
 

S7BcSR

Western Thunderer
As Railwaymaniac has suggested I will be along real soon!!

Yes, I have one Dapol 5 plank SR wagon bought in December last year. This is one of the more recent series of wagons from Dapol which have had the Richard Webster hand on it making it an eminently more suitable wagon for conversion. In fact it took me about 5 minutes to convert. The most difficult part was pulling back the axle guard/box mouldings with my thumbs to spring out the original wheels and replace with a set of Slater's S7 wheels. The moulding is quite sturdy and did require more pressure on it than I had expected but it was still a relatively simple conversion. What else I did to the wagon I can't remember, if I did anything at all, and I will need to unpack the wagon having got back from RailEx earlier this evening where I was using it as demonstration of how easy it is to convert the latest RtR wagons. I will have a look tomorrow to see if I did anything with the bearings and report back if there was anything special.

If you weren't aware Richard Webster (he of Lionheart fame) has, I understand, been advising Dapol on their production requirements with the result that the latest series of Dapol wagons are significantly improved over the first series of wagons released. In fact the first series of wagons were not for me but I am certain I will make more use of these latest releases as vehicles that I require become available.

One word of warning however. It is extremely easy while doing this conversion to break the brake guides as I found out to my cost - there is now one missing from the wagon awaiting a replacement etched one - possibly!

Hope this helps.
Rob
 

Paul Kehoe

New Member
Dave,
I know Peter Mann in London bought some Dapol wagons some years ago and has probably converted them to S7. I don't think he is on WT but maybe #Scale7JB or one of the other members of the S7 South East Area Group could ask him to explain how he did it.
I converted a Dapol wagon with relative ease using Slaters wheels, althoughthe heart did pound a tad when I kept bending the axle box further and further back! All is well though and it runs perfectly. Now I have some Lionheart on order which come with S7 wheels...that's simpler!
 

flexible_coupling

Western Thunderer
Interesting that this subject has popped up today, I looked closely at a set of Peco Wonderful Wheels for the first time this afternoon, and noticed it had the same looking 'skinny' axle ends as the Dapol wagon. I may have a bit of a closer look at that solution......
 

Scale7JB

Western Thunderer
Just bought one of the 7 plank Dapol wagons as they're going cheap at DCC Supplies (£30) to see how the springing could be done. Hopefully as previously mentioned, Exactoscale springing units could be used.

JB.
 

markjj

Western Thunderer
Interesting that this subject has popped up today, I looked closely at a set of Peco Wonderful Wheels for the first time this afternoon, and noticed it had the same looking 'skinny' axle ends as the Dapol wagon. I may have a bit of a closer look at that solution......

Avoid trying to use Peco wheels the tyres are not secured like Slaters ones are. They don't produce S7 ones so it's almost impossible to reprofile them as once the tyre gets warm it just slips off Slaters I believe are moulded into the wheel.02016-07-14 12.03.35.jpg
 

Scale7JB

Western Thunderer
Damn, mine's just arrived!

image.jpg

It's pretty amazing for the price! And plenty of room to get some exactoscale springing in there...

JB.
 

richard_t

Western Thunderer
Damn - mines just gone back to the Post Office, as I was at the bottom of the garden and missed the postie ...
 

Scale7JB

Western Thunderer
Damn, I've just ordered another 8 Plank from Dapol...

Shame the postage is a bit pricey compared to DCC Supplies.

Need to go and have a look at the C+L website for some wagon suspension units..

JB.
 

Eastsidepilot

Western Thunderer
Avoid trying to use Peco wheels the tyres are not secured like Slaters ones are. They don't produce S7 ones so it's almost impossible to reprofile them as once the tyre gets warm it just slips off Slaters I believe are moulded into the wheel.0View attachment 56747

Press it back on the centre and flood the back of it with a little thin super glue and then try turning, should be ok. I have done this with old Gibson wheels.

Col.
 

Ian_C

Western Thunderer
Picking this up again about 6 months later...
I have a Slaters S7 wheel and bearing set and I'd just assumed that I could use it with an Exactoscale (C&L) 7mm chassis. No chance. There are no Exactoscale 7mm wheels so far as I know, and the default choice is Slaters. I wonder what wheels and brings Exactoscale had in mind when they designed then chassis and suspension units - it clearly wasn't Slaters?
 

Dog Star

Western Thunderer
I have a Slaters S7 wheel and bearing set and I'd just assumed that I could use it with an Exactoscale (C&L) 7mm chassis. No chance. There are no Exactoscale 7mm wheels so far as I know, and the default choice is Slaters. I wonder what wheels and bearings Exactoscale had in mind when they designed the chassis and suspension units - it clearly wasn't Slaters?
You are correct in what you say here... the bearings which were supplied by Exactoscale had a bore which was less than the diameter of the end of a Slater's axle. Len Newman advised me that his 7mm bearings were compatible with Alan Gibson wheelsets... I have never tried the veracity of that statement as I have used only Slater's wheelsets. Given the dimensional inconsistency of the Exactoscale bearings with respect to Slater's wheelsets I use a cutting broach to achieve a running clearance between Exactoscale bearings and Slater's axle.
 

7mmMick

Western Thunderer
Picking this up again about 6 months later...
I have a Slaters S7 wheel and bearing set and I'd just assumed that I could use it with an Exactoscale (C&L) 7mm chassis. No chance. There are no Exactoscale 7mm wheels so far as I know, and the default choice is Slaters. I wonder what wheels and brings Exactoscale had in mind when they designed then chassis and suspension units - it clearly wasn't Slaters?

No chance? All my exactoscale chassis have Slaters wheels Ian. You should have been supplied a small copper bearing with the chassis kit? This will accept the Slaters wheel set once, as Graham says it's opened out a little with a broach. You then simply cut the axle ends down to allow the unit to spring behind the axle box. You can take up side play between the wheel face and W iron with suitable brass tube or washers. Have a look here, the pictures aren't great you it may help,

7mm Mick's Workbench

I can post other pictures if you need them,

Mick:thumbs:
 
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