Templot

martin_wynne said:

Hi,

Have you tried Winebottler to install Wine (it's free): http://winebottler.kronenberg.org

Or Codeweavers Crossover is an inexpensive supported Wine installer with a free trial: https://www.codeweavers.com/products/crossover-mac/

Lots of users are running Templot on a Mac this way, and I haven't heard any other reports of Wine not installing (except on pre-Intel macs of course).

Martin.

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Thanks Martin. Wine bottler seems to have done the trick – I suspect the problem was that I downloaded Wine from Source Forge which is not a recognised App Source in the increasingly restrictive Apple Universe.

(5 minutes later)...Templot safely installed. Now comes the interesting bit...


Richard

I seem to have stired up a bit of a hornets nest. This was not my intention.

I come at it from the viewpoint of a recently retired computer lecturer (well, 3 years) who specialised in HCI - Human Computer Intercation - network security and databases. I often found student programmers would write software that THEY could wanted, for themselves, and found difficulty in relating to 'ordinary mortals' who could not fathom out the structure they had created. They often resorted to techno-babble to confuse the user - who was actually the client who would be paying for their 'services', if the software ever reached the installation phase (it normally failed the user testing phase).

I do not have the time nor inclination to get back into this kind of debate so, if you don't mind, I will withdraw. If you gentlemen want to continue please do so, I will be doing some modelling. Now, where's that soldering iron ......

Peter

Wagonman said:

I have been a Mac user for the last 16 or so years so will presumably need a Windows emulator of some sort. As Mac OS X 10 won't let me install WINE, can the collective wisdom of Western Thunder recommend some other emulation software that is both free and acceptable to my picky computer?

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Seems you've got it sorted now - my method was to use Virtualbox and run a Windows7 virtual machine. You can get them from Microsoft to test IE compatibility and I then installed Templot on the virtual machine.

FiftyFourA said:

I seem to have stirred up a bit of a hornets nest. This was not my intention.

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Hi Peter,

So when you started a topic with the one-word title "Templot" and then wrote "I have twice deleted it from my laptop in disgust", what was your intention?

I regret that I'm not a computer lecturer and I know nothing about Human Computer Interaction. But as an oily-fingered toolmaker I have created a program which I find useful, and it pleases me that there are other modellers who also like to use it. When you make your track design program available, I will be very pleased to try it, and I certainly won't regard it with disgust.

regards,

Martin.

I don't see any hornets nest, rather a well considered discussion with informative and thoughtful contributions from all sides, not the least of which from Martin himself.

I confess that I have never attempted to use Templot but have a fair idea that it would be do-able with sufficient effort on my part, it would then be a new skill with a lot of potential.

I suspect that you have picked up your soldering iron a few times in the past and that the first time you tried it you probably burnt your fingers a few times - I know I did.

Going back to Templot itself, despite not learning it I have been a huge beneficiary of Martin's work as clever friends have created and very kindly printed off magnificent full size templates for me using the software, and Martin himself has even been generous enough to comment helpfully on my subsequent builds on various forums over the years, despite my never being a Templot user.

So thank you Martin, despite my being a Luddite I have achieved some magnificent track work as a result of your fine work. And thanks are due to Simon Dunkley too for using the software "on my behalf".

Simon

AndyB said:

I really don't get the complaints about the Templot 'way of working'.
Templot is a tool for designing track. It follows rules and principles for designing track. Track is simply not made from prismatic shapes - so time to forget about CAD (and yes, I've used at least 6 'professional' level CAD packages and tried some of the freebies).

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Thanks Andy.

For CAD users trying Templot for the first time, there is a page on the Templot web site which may help:

http://templot.com/companion/index.html?gs_baffled.htm

regards,

Martin.

Well, I've had my wine and bottled Templot up on the Mac and I'm impressed.

I think I'll have the throat of KingsX all drawn and ready to print templates by morning

I am new to this forum so not really up to speed with all the issues, but this is my take on Templot

For producing plans to build track from its invaluable, whether its a single turnout or a formation
Making templates (plans) for a single turnout or crossing is just a few clicks of the mouse, a slip is a few more, but 3 ways are a bit harder
Most of the tutorials are based on the original version which differs from Templot 2, I for one am happy that Martin develops Templot further rather than up date the old instructions as there is Templot Forum in the background to lend a helping hand
Many who have spent a little time to learn the system are able to produce a working (building) plan with ease for their proposed trackwork, which includes both straight and curved turnouts and crossings, along with a wide verity of size choices.

I can see some getting frustrated, especially if they are used to other programs. I have the same problem with phones, have used Samsung for years, now migrated to Iphone as everyone else in the family has one, and I do get frustrated with it. Does that mean the Apple software is bad, no just different from Samsung. Same with Templot, just invest a little time learning to work it. You will find its well worth the time investment

Was a bit tight for time yesterday and also did not want to write a long blurb but Templot is so easy to use, just turn it on, click track pad and select the track gauge you require

Click on Template on the tool bar
Then select new template, choose left or right hand, click on size dialogue box and select size, click on straight of select the curve you require. Job done !! 5 clicks and you have a plan

If you want to curve a straight turnout or alter the radius of a curved one press F6 left click and move the mouse which will alter the radius (there is a box which tells you the radius as its changing) left click to remove the curving function. 3 clicks and a wiggle of the mouse

Altering the size or length can de done just as easily

If you wish to add another piece of track or turnout either press insert or main on the tool bar then store and background, then follow the process again

If you want a diamond crossing, first make a turnout, then on the toolbar go to tools them press make a diamond
A crossover follows the same process, as does a branch or ladded crossover.

Now I don't think Martin could make it any simpler, by going to Templot Club you can print off a short cut key chart which makes some of the above even simpler

Where the confusion may arise is that it is not a layout planning tool, according to Martin other programs may be easier for doing this, though many do use Templot for this.

My wife knows nothing about railway modelling let alone track, I could stand over her and tell her how to make a turnout on a 6' 8.75" radius in seconds (she will have no idea what she is doing) and print it off, its that easy. in fact add another 10 seconds and she would have made a ladder crossover. A slip or a 3 way no chance though. Its that simple. If you either don't like it or cannot get on with it sadly you are missing out if you build your own track, even if you enjoy drawing your own. For those who are thinking of having a go, please do. Certainly there are plenty on Templot Club who are happy to assist, as I guess some on here will

Hayfield said:

Where the confusion may arise is that it is not a layout planning tool, according to Martin other programs may be easier for doing this, though many do use Templot for this.

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Hi John,

Thanks for the kind words.

What I meant there is that Templot is not a pick-and-place layout planning tool, such as is needed for commercial pointwork such as Peco. Templot is entirely unsuitable for that -- I suggest using AnyRail for track such as Peco.

Templot is for handbuilt track and can of course do layout planning for that.

In fact it does have a snap-together function for beginners -- using the F7 function templates will snap onto one another when moved close. This can be turned off when it is a nuisance for experienced users.

regards,

Martin.

As a new member, I have read this thread with interest. I am in the middle of building a new layout based on Penwyllt aka Craig-y-Nos on what was the Neath & Brecon. I designed the whole layout in Templot and found it an incredibly useful tool. Yes there is a steep learning curve, I guess it took me several evenings of blundering around before I got the hang of it and I suspect there are lots of features I have yet to use but the ability to quickly generate different geometries was something I found invaluable. I went through 23 different versions of the layout before I found one I liked but this ability to do prototyping without having to build anything was very useful. I think you need to know something about track design before you try anything major with Templot but I am not a lecturer in Computer Science and I managed ok.

I have to say that temploys ease of use has improved significantly since I first started using it.
The latest version is the best yet the other evening I needed to play around with the throat of croscombes new fiddle yard, something I wasn't particularly looking forward to but I managed to rejig the whole thing in just over an hour. The group selection mode works well now.

Richard

Alas I am one of those who did not get very far with it. However I did manage to print out some plans of points exactly how I want them that I used to confirm my proposed layout and and am now using to build the points and track. For that I am grateful. Thank you Martin.

Dear All,
I, too, was unable to cope with Templot at all, and I'm the first to admit that it is my fault and not Martin's, who has made several admirable contributions to the hobby,and whose Templot system is acknowledged to work brilliantly for those able to master it.
For we lesser mortals, could I put in a plea for the TRAX system? As a person basically only able to email and browse on a computer, it took only a couple of days to learn the TRAX system and be able to use it.
A possible reason for this is that the disc comes with a book, which can be perused at leisure before getting anywhere near a computer. It is therefore possible to go through the principles at leisure, flick the pages back and forth as required without the performance of flicking a screen back and forth to re-check something you thought you had taken in, but actually hadn't.
The TRAX system does have some foibles, and I suspect the templates produced are probably not to Templot standard, and there is a tendency on my printer for curves to have sudden kinks in them (when printing for S7). Of course, I understand that the production of a similar book explaining Templot would not be possible, but I just wonder whether the problems myself and others on this thread seem to have found lies in its wholly 'on-line' nature.

Geoff

The basic manipulation of straight, curved track, ordinary and curved turnouts in Templot are quite easy to understand; but I think it's quicker once you can follow the F-key sequences rather than the drop down menus. One thing that became obvious, at least for the layout that I have built, is that there a host of menu functions that I would never use, therefore my possible suggestion to help newcomers get started would be a selectable 'experience level', so that some of the more obscure functions and their terminology could be hidden until needed. If this were incorporated with the existing 'hint' system it would initially offer simple menus; the user could then move on to make a more polished layout using some of the more sophisticated track options as familiarity with using Templot improved.

The big problem for me was the time taken to master a curved single slip, made up from its multiple components, as I found the 'how to' explanation on the Templot site unconvincing; having followed it I was not confident I knew how I'd done it so that I could repeat it easily.

My suggestion to anyone who isn't happy with the time & effort it takes to get to grips with Templot is that they try to learn a musical instrument.

I got a copy for Christmas when it was paid-for, and I struggled like everyone else does. And when I come back to it, I struggle again, but keep trying, and you'll find that it does what it says on the tin. If you want to master it, I'm sure you can, even if, like me, you're not going to the Carnegie Hall anytime soon.

(And I'm a professional 2D & 3D CAD user)

Happy New Year!
Simon

Wagonman said:

Thanks Martin. Wine bottler seems to have done the trick ....
(5 minutes later)...Templot safely installed. Now comes the interesting bit...

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Any tips on installing Templot using Winebottler please? I've tried that and Codeweaver without success. I have a cranky old Windows desktop in the spare room that I only use for Templot and it would be great to use my MacMini.

Sorry can't help with Winebottler - my tip would be the same as earlier using Virtualbox and run a copy of Windows in a virtual machine. It's how I run Templot on my Mac devices.

adrian said:

Sorry can't help with Winebottler - my tip would be the same as earlier using Virtualbox and run a copy of Windows in a virtual machine. It's how I run Templot on my Mac devices.

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But that means buying a copy of Windows (and also Virtualbox?).

Winebottler is free. Lots of folks are using it to run Templot on a Mac, so someone will be able to help you. Unfortunately not me, because I haven't got a Mac. Try asking on the Templot Club user forum.

cheers,

Martin.

I run Templot on my MacBook Pro using Crossover without problems. (I assume that when you say Codeweaver you actually mean Crossover?)
Your post stating 'without success' doesn't really help those of us who could perhaps offer help. In any event, without doubt the place to ask is on the Templot Club user forum as Martin suggests above. Please, if/when you do, give more specific information about your lack of success so that we can steer you to a better result!
Dave