Prototype Can anyone identify Where & When?

oldravendale

Western Thunderer
One of my collection with no background info. I know not where, when or who the photographer might be. The line of locos is clearly withdrawn, the loco behind 1442 appears to be a 28XX 2-8-0 (or could it be a 43XX 2-6-0?), then a 57XX 0-6-0PT, none of which is much help. The last two 14XX locos withdrawn in May 1965 (or could it be 1964 as information clashes on that point ) were 1442 and 1450, both from Exmouth Junction shed, so is this where the photo was taken? 1442 was preserved and I believe is at Tiverton in Devon as a static exhibit.

This was bought in a collection of negs at an antiques fair with no detail at all. All I know is that it's a 35mm neg.

Mickoo - you are excused this one!

Brian

1442.  Location and Date Unknown.  FINAL.  Photographer Unknown..jpg
 

Dog Star

Western Thunderer
I think that this is the far west end of the Dump at Swindon... with the MSWJR in the background.... probably on a Wedneday afternoon.

Judging by the size of the building and the spacing between the tracks I suggest that an appropriate grid reference is SU18 132 west and 843 north.
 
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Steph Dale

Western Thunderer
Oh come on Graham, you can do better than 'a Wednesday', which Wednesday?

Dad,
Cracking photo though I wish you weren't wedded to JPG, then we might see more detail in the background ...

Steph
 

mickoo

Western Thunderer
Oh come on Graham, you can do better than 'a Wednesday', which Wednesday?

Dad,
Cracking photo though I wish you weren't wedded to JPG, then we might see more detail in the background ...

Steph
Doesn't matter which format 'dad' used, the WT guidelines on size and compression negate any advantages other formats would have over *.jpg ;)

Either way, what format would you prefer, I've tried tiff and it doesn't seem much better, maybe when printed but on the web it really doesn't show any better results. I always shoot and work in RAW but the conversion to jpg yields some horrible effects, though a 'good' software package does have distinct advantages.

Brian, no idea on this one I'm afraid :cool:
 

demu1037

Western Thunderer
Graham - definitely Swindon, shed on the left of this matches (a Sunday in May 78 in case you were wondering)

IMG_4126.jpg


Andy
 

oldravendale

Western Thunderer
Thanks all.

Once again, WT has come up trumps! There was no clue at all that this was a Wednesday, Graham (;)) but I can now be sure about location and an approximate date, say Summer 1965, and now we know it's a Wednesday that narrows the options a bit. Andy's photo confirms Dog Star's comments for me.

As for my scanning format, using jpg I'm sorry to say that I don't recognise the same artefacts as others. Certainly when Simon used my 35mm jpeg of "Biggin Hill" for a poster size print I could see no problems, and Simon reported no problems in getting it printed from a 2400 dpi Photoshopped scan sent to him on disc. I know the purists may not like jpeg but it's a format which is exceptionally easy to use and manipulate. If push comes to shove and there is a wish to use these images for publication or similar in the future the negs can always be rescanned and post processed to remove defects.

In short, I know there are shortcomings with jpg but it suits me:).

Having said which, Andy, your photo above, for which many thanks for posting, is showing signs of deterioration. Some of my negs are suffering too but can usually be improved if I spend a lot of time in Photoshop. Unfortunately most film stocks have great longevity but considerable fragility if they are subject to damp, excessive heat cycles etc. (There are some notable exceptions to that rule we won't go in to here.) One way of sometimes improving things is to put the damaged materials through a stabliliser bath for that particular process but even that's risky as some of the bugs which attack film create a by product which effectively dissolves the emulsion at the point of damage, so the best possible quality copy should always be taken before any attempt is made t improve the original.

Don't quite know how I was side tracked on to that, so a thanks once again for the help. There are more to come, and certainly some you may enjoy, Mick, so don't think I've forgotten you!

Brian
 

Dog Star

Western Thunderer
There was no clue at all that this was a Wednesday...
Swindon works was open to visitors on most Wednesday afternoons - your picture includes some who appear to be of school age.
Andy's photo confirms Dog Star's comments for me.
Cheek ;) .

I was able to explore the dump during the late 1960s and early 1970s on several occasions... I have also some film negatives of photos taken there in the 1930s. If you follow the OS co-ordinates on "old maps online" you shall be convinced as to where the photographer was standing.

There is something about your original post which puzzles me and that is the date. If 1965 is suggested then that is a just before the last BR(WR) steam engines were withdrawn from that region... so where is the pile of discarded and worshipped steam engines? Andy's photo (@demu1937) was taken at a similar stage in sorting the BR diesel surplus and the difference is clear.
 
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oldravendale

Western Thunderer
Swindon works was open to visitors on most Wednesday afternoons - your picture includes some who appear to be of school age.

Cheek!
Sorry - no offence intended. It's just that two sources of information confirming one another make it a definite in my book, if you see what I mean. I don't remember the location from my visits to Swindon, of which I made two, and one was at around this date. The only steam at that time was a "Grange" in the shed, "Pendennis Castle" in another, secured shed, and three 94XX pannier tanks as the works service locos. Your comment about the Wednesday opening brings back memories too, as it was on one of those Wednesday open days that I made my first visit to Swindon in 1959.

I wonder, and this is surmise on my part, whether 1442 was moved to Swindon in the knowledge that it was going to be preserved, perhaps for cosmetic restoration. Certainly the date is questionable - from the same source the withdrawal date is given in one place as 1964 and another 1965 and it's even possible that it could be a while after 1965 as the loco could have been stored for a considerable period on it's last shed or even previous to 1964/5 if the loco had been out of use for a while and condemned during a visit to Swindon. I wonder too whether the other two locos with it are candidates for preservation.

However, and of this I'm certain, by 1965 most withdrawn locos for scrapping went nowhere near a works. Withdrawal of steam was occurring so quickly that the BR works could not keep up with the demand. They were sold directly to scrap yards and were transported there as part of a freight consignment. I remember clearly a line of withdrawn locos at Southall, each of which had a consignment label on it sending them to Buttigeigs in Newport. In fact, at the time I remember being amused by the fact that the label, tied to a cab hand rail, was identical to those we had at home for identifying luggage when we went on holiday. Rather underexposed pics below - the one of the label is particularly grainy as it's a tiny section of the larger picture.

Brian

47499.  Southall.  5 December 1965.  Personal Collection.  FINAL.  Photo by Brian Dale.jpg 84002.  Southall.  5 December 1965.  Personal Collection.  FINAL.  Photo by Brian Dale - Copy.jpg
 

mickoo

Western Thunderer
Hi Mick

Interested to know what "good" software package you use. It's DxO for me.

Tim
Adobe Photoshop or better yet Lightroom when working in RAW, basically not something like MS paint LOL. There are probably others but those are the two that suit my needs.
 

oldravendale

Western Thunderer
Here's another with probably less evidence of a location, but always worth a shot I suppose. Clearly this is Midland Compound 1000. It was withdrawn as 41000 in 1951 and preserved, but when it was reliveried in MR colours and restored to steam I'm unsure, although I know it was running for a period through the early 1960s. In fact I saw it in steam in 1975 and again in 1980.

Again, from a collection of negatives I purchased at an antiques fair a few years ago.

Brian.

1000.  Location and Date Unknown.  FINAL.  Photographer Unknown. - Copy.jpg
 

oldravendale

Western Thunderer
Thanks Andy.

Indeed, that looks likely from the appearance, and it's the most likely location if this shot was taken soon after restoration - was that undertaken at Derby? THere is a very distinct absence of any sort of weathering so a works shot seems most likely. I've no experience myself on which to base this as I never visited any of the LMS works, but as I didn't recognise Swindon on my first posting in this thread and which I'd visited twice I guess that wouldn't have been much help anyway!
 

oldravendale

Western Thunderer
.....and for half a crown you could buy a London Transport "Red Rover" bus ticket and go anywhere in London for a day out. Hence Kings Cross, St Pancras, Marylebone, Paddington, Waterloo, Victoria, Liverpool Street and Stratford all in one day. We'd always make a point of going to Colindale initially so that we could visit Cricklewood Shed and take the trolley bus. We used to be eco friendly then. :D

Friends and I thought nothing of doing this from about age 12. Would you let your kids do it now, I wonder?

Brian
 
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