German Modelling

Dikitriki

Flying Squad
Roger,

On the tender, the pivoted drawbar appears to be screwed onto a black plate via a large central bolt. The black plate appears to be attached to the red plate with 2 screws at the back (and maybe a couple recessed or countersunk under the coupler). The question is, is the red plate bolted to the tender frame in some manner or an integral part of the casting? If the former, it should be possible to either relocate or make a new longer (red) plate to push the pivot point back. It doesn't seem an insurmountable problem.

I think a bit of judicious unscrewing is called for:)

Richard
 

Scanlon

Western Thunderer
Roger,

I think a bit of judicious unscrewing is called for:)

Richard

Hi Richard,
You are probably correct and will know when I get some screwdrivers small enough to undo those pesky screws.

I knew as soon as I criticised Kiss Modellbahnen for poor customer relations they would reply. I now have the full operating booklet etc. Frankly it is useless, absolutely nothing about the tender and their comment regarding reducing the distance between engine and tender was "distance between engine and tender can not be shortened, unfortunately". Looks like British ingenuity will triumph over German engineering. That gap has got to go.

Roger
 

allegheny1600

Western Thunderer
Damn, damn and damn again!
You guys are naughty, reminding me that I once had a Kiss BR65!
I had drooled over it in the shop display for many months and decided to buy it and boy! Was it great, even though I only had three yards of track for it.
At the time I didn't know anyone else with a G1 set up and contemplated just how much it would cost to develop a "full layout" (in the garden) with passenger trains, freight and so forth and like a bloomin fool, exchanged it for the then full Lenz 0 scale catalogue contents.
Bugger, bugger, bugger!
Oh dear! It would probably cost about a thousand more than I paid for it, now!
The Lenz has gone too, I had settled quite happily into H0 modelling but now, thoughts are idling over a little Märklin KPEV T3 - this and a couple of open wagons could be had on ebay.DE for under 400 smackers, bargain!
Mutter, mutter, mutter!
John E.
 

cmax

Western Thunderer
At the time I didn't know anyone else with a G1 set up and contemplated just how much it would cost to develop a "full layout" (in the garden) with passenger trains, freight and so forth and like a bloomin fool, exchanged it for the then full Lenz 0 scale catalogue contents.
Bugger, bugger, bugger!

I can fully understand the attraction of G1 / Spur 1 especially the products of Kiss, but not everyone has the space, even in the garden to do it justice, Just wondering John why you felt like a fool exchanging it for the Lenz, is it that inferior or is it the lack of mass?

I admit i am looking to purchase a few Lenz items in the new year, maybe sooner! I like the look of the V100 train pack (Lenz 43130-01) even at UK prices looks remarkable value compared to Heljan.

Interested to know the views of others

Gary
 

mickoo

Western Thunderer
I can fully understand the attraction of G1 / Spur 1 especially the products of Kiss, but not everyone has the space, even in the garden to do it justice, Just wondering John why you felt like a fool exchanging it for the Lenz, is it that inferior or is it the lack of mass?

I admit i am looking to purchase a few Lenz items in the new year, maybe sooner! I like the look of the V100 train pack (Lenz 43130-01) even at UK prices looks remarkable value compared to Heljan.

Interested to know the views of others

Gary
Do it justice?, that's not quite strictly true, you could say the same about any other scale in reality. It's never the space that's the issue it's what we try to cram into it. If you want to model Kings Cross, Shap, Clapham Junction, blah blah blah, in any scale you need a lot of space to do it justice, if you model industrial or back waters then G scale in a moderately small space will also do it justice.

It's not your space or scale that needs justifying, it's justifying what you put into your space and what scale you use :cool:

As an example from one I'm researching, I give you Rohrdorf!
DBS 151 082-5
4971133599_61966176fb_z.jpgRohrdorf Zementwerk by Daaaaaaaaaaaaaaani, on Flickr
10675525714_738dc26d66_c.jpgRailion 151 145 Rohrdorf (D) 13 juni 2007 by Superbock, on Flickr
10676005423_99f83f8877_c.jpgRailion 151 145 Rohrdorf (D) 13 juni 2007 by Superbock, on Flickr
8146252205_5e8b770998_c.jpg151 134 by Dominik Weinkopf, on Flickr

I reckon 3m by 6-800 mm would let you build this little industrial switching plant, it'd sure make a nice photo plank :thumbs:

Anyway, apologies for the off tangent, normal service is resumed :D

Lenz is good, I've not heard anything bad about them, I've long coveted their V160 ;)
 

cmax

Western Thunderer
Mick

Of course you are right in what you say, It's justifying what you put into your space and what scale you use and I have no desire in cramming Kings Cross in the garage in any scale, nor had i thought of a photo plank, mainly on the grounds that it's not normally something that floats my boat......then you show the above :D

What i had in mind was actually based on this
(if the link doesn't work, apologies)
but in Spur null where i could watch the trains go by, indulge in a bit of shunting, something to relax with.

Please don't apologise for going off on a tangent, keep going when you turn up gems like Rohrdorf.

Gary
 

mickoo

Western Thunderer
Gary, I'd love a roundy roundy, but it's not possible in doors in any scale, the loft has W trusses and is impracticable in reality for anything other than a test track scenario and only just in O gauge let alone gauge 1.

So if I want a roundy roundy then it has to be the garden where I do have some space and if your going into the garden then you may as well go for Gauge 1.

The Germans, like the Americans seem less hung up on minimum radii than the British, like the Americans they also tend to like to fill everywhere with track but they are not quite as bad. There's also some very good detailed less is more stuff going on.

The clip you show (another Rabbit hole I've fallen down, some nice clips in the links at the end) is very much less is more and works very well, in fact I thought it was initially O gauge, thanks for posting :thumbs:

For me I have two goals, the garden to 'play' trains and inside a detailed photo plank, or more appropriately a limited movement diorama ;) now that could be either O or gauge 1, the jury is still out on that.
 

allegheny1600

Western Thunderer
I can fully understand the attraction of G1 / Spur 1 especially the products of Kiss, but not everyone has the space, even in the garden to do it justice, Just wondering John why you felt like a fool exchanging it for the Lenz, is it that inferior or is it the lack of mass?

I admit i am looking to purchase a few Lenz items in the new year, maybe sooner! I like the look of the V100 train pack (Lenz 43130-01) even at UK prices looks remarkable value compared to Heljan.

Interested to know the views of others

Gary
Hi Gary,
Thanks for your comment, I felt like a fool as I had spent some fifteen hundred pounds on something that I barely used before swapping it for something else. Spilt milk and all that but then I later got rid of the Lenz!
There is a definite lack of mass if you compare spur 1 with spur null but the comparative cheapness of Lenz makes up for it. Lenz is hardly inferior, well not too much anyway. Beware, I understand that MBW is not up to Lenz standards.
No, if I could be settled in what I'm interested in, I could have stayed with one of the larger scale - as I'm a butterfly, it's easier and cheaper to do my flitting in H0.
Cheers,
John.
 

mickoo

Western Thunderer
Beware, I understand that MBW is not up to Lenz standards.
John.

I don't have any Lenz stuff but I do have a MBW V200.1 and have to say it's a lovely model, runs smoothly, looks the part and the paint application is uniform and crisp, I have read there can be issues with drive trains, split cogs or dry bearings but they seem to have over come that in the later production batches I think.

If I saw a decent Lenz V160 in O I'd probably go for one, they do look very nice models and yes, they probably are a cut above MBW, but Lenz does not do a V200 as yet.
 

cmax

Western Thunderer
Hi John,

Thank you for taking the time to explain your views, as for being a fool, well done that, got the tee shirt! I'm a fully paid up member of the scattergun modelling club, over the years modelled in N, HO,OO, British O, even TT before admitting that nothing fulfilled what i was really looking for, I'm not one for having several projects on the go, I lose interest, but keep coming back to the railways of Germany era III / IV.

I also favour the Less is more approach, so quality over quantity, and Spur Null is looking more likely than Spur 1, Time to get out of the armchair and build something!!

Gary
 

Dikitriki

Flying Squad
I don't have any Lenz stuff but I do have a MBW V200.1 and have to say it's a lovely model, runs smoothly, looks the part and the paint application is uniform and crisp, I have read there can be issues with drive trains, split cogs or dry bearings but they seem to have over come that in the later production batches I think.

Hi Mick,

I've been looking at the V200s in Spur 1, both MBW and Marklin. Do you, or anyone else come to that, have any comments as to whether the Marklin or MBW is the better model? I know MBW will not have the chip protocol issues that I would have with the Marklin one.

Richard
 

mickoo

Western Thunderer
Richard,

It does depend which class you want, they are quite distinct beasts.

Marklin make the V200 or in modern terms the 220 class, the front is a little more raked back and they have large windows in the bodyside.

MBW make the V200.1 or in modern terms the 221 class, the front is heavier and more bullish with the windscreens further forward and they have different body side grills and smaller windows.

From what I can gather, the MBW has more modern tooling, only being two years old, the Marklin one is much older but still very very good. Marklin is Marklin and you know what your getting, MBW are the new boys on the block and I've read a few issues with drives, much like the Heljan issues, but like Heljan, MBW are often quick to correct and assist.

MBW comes without sound or with ESU Loksound so you know their digital protocol is going to work with what ever we have, I think Marklin modern examples will do the same but there may have to be work arounds. Personally which ever one I get I'm going to pay the extra and drop in a ESU XL anyway....if it doesn't already have it fitted, so the possible Marklin digital issues for me are a non starter.

I have seen some Marklin V200 with ESU sound on Ebay recently, so others are probably thinking the same, or have bought non sound units and added it afterward.

The other issue is your chosen era and details on the engines. Basically you have two eras, Eph III and Eph IV and there's one detail that is important. As built the engines had raised polished strips for the nose V and bodyside beading and the beading around the base of the body. Only the MBW model has this on, this is correct for Eph III or engines with V200 numbers, or V200.1

Around 1974-76 this strip was removed, probably as a corrosion preventative measure so in Eph IV the strip was painted. However, there were some engines that carried the beading strip way up into the 80's and possibly until scrapping but I've not begun to fine detail which locos and what dates yet.

The MBW model comes with beading, the Marklin is painted, therefore Marklin in V numbers is strictly not authentic, except maybe a few that had the strip removed before being renumbered, I've not found any images yet to confirm that, but there may have been some. The MBW allows for V numbers and some later Eph numbers, so covers a greater authentic time range.

If your not bothered by that detail then don't worry.

Finally, if you want to really look one of these over, check Becasse, he has done several MBW and Marklin models, all look great when weathered.

Fine BECASSE WEATHERING: Feine, Fette V. Die V200.1 von Fine Models.
MBW BECASSE WEATHERING: Die V200 von MBW in 0: das zweite Wirtschaftswunder.
Marklin BECASSE WEATHERING: Die V200 Ein wunderschönes Wirtschaftswunder.

Finding engines with 220 or 221 numbers is hard, it's more popular to find V200 and V200.1 on Ebay. As far as I can see, Marklin only do two 220 numbers, one in red and one in beige/blue, this latter one worked into Denmark in 81, the red one did not so that'd have to be a renumber.

MBW are cheaper, usually in the £450-500 range, Marklin go for £550-700 or higher.

Visually, they both look very good and authentic, drive wise I suspect modern incarnations of the Marklin model maybe better, I've no proof or own either but Marklin is Marklin with a proven track record.

I doubt you'd be upset by either if I'm honest :thumbs: I think KM1 or KISS might do a V200 and a company called Fine do as well, but given how good the other two look, I get the feeling your paying for the name and perhaps a better drive train.
 

Dikitriki

Flying Squad
Richard,

It does depend which class you want, they are quite distinct beasts.

<snip>

I doubt you'd be upset by either if I'm honest :thumbs: I think KM1 or KISS might do a V200 and a company called Fine do as well, but given how good the other two look, I get the feeling your paying for the name and perhaps a better drive train.

Mick,

Thanks for your most comprehensive reply. I feel sure that one or the other will appear at some stage.

Richard
 

Heather Kay

Western Thunderer
Wow! I (almost) feel a scale change coming up.

Brian

It does look impressive, but for all that still lacks steam from all the other places steam engines tend to produce steam. What about safety valves lifting? What about a leaky gland somewhere?

It's still impressive though. ;)
 

mickoo

Western Thunderer
It does look impressive, but for all that still lacks steam from all the other places steam engines tend to produce steam. What about safety valves lifting? What about a leaky gland somewhere?

It's still impressive though. ;)
It's early days I'm sure, and other places are only limited to your imagination and decoder outputs or time and effort in piping them up.

I also noticed steam coming from between the loco and tender so that's three outputs being used.

Leaky glands? Surely German efficiency would not permit such grave faults to be present ;)

When they get around to darker smoke then I'll really be on board :thumbs:
 
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