The Low Quay Yard

Richard H

Western Thunderer
At the risk of hijacking your thread with my own SBB, I've had a hankering after a 19th Century north-eastern harbour scene for years and your own project just hits the spot (although a little later in its time period). There are many inspirational photos around but these are two that have stuck with me - admittedly one's not a harbour scene but has a quirky north-easterness all of its own.

This is a ballast quay with narrow gauge waggonway on the north bank of the Wear - I really like the tumbledown buildings and randomness of the whole scene and have mulled over a NG scene for years based on this. I'd guess the building styles in North Shields would be no different at that time.

North Ferry Point, Monkwearmouth, 1879 by Sunderland Museum, on Flickr

I've no idea of the attribution of this one so can't credit it - it hangs on the wall of a pub in Gateshead and I've asked Beamish about it, but it's not know to them or in any of their collections which cover much of the colliery histories. It shows a splendid selection of stock lettered for the Earl of Durham's colliery railway but I don't know the location. There's something attractive and modellable about the outside framed, inside bearing stock and the small scale mine buildings.

View attachment 82466
The North ferry Point picture is very atmospheric - super inspiration - almost a blueprint! I think there would have been parts of the Low Lights which had similarly jumbled old vernacular and industrial buildings in the mid-19thC, although the shoreline itself was different.

The picture of the Earl of Durham stock and the mine is also on the Durham Mining Museum website (Durham Mining Museum - Gallery (Margaret)), their image reference number L-01336-13-0001-11; it is identified there as Lambton Mines, Margaret Shaft, and dated 1894.

Forgive my ignorance, but what does SBB mean?
Richard H
 
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Chris Veitch

Western Thunderer
Yes, I love the detail in the Ferry Point photo with the rickety ballast cranes and the rows of mini-chaldrons. I assume the little hut on the slipway at the extreme left is the office for the ferrymen.

Thanks for the detail on the ED photo - we spent a while over this without any conclusions.

My apologies - SBB refers to this thread which I came across when I read the intro on joining the other day. Seems to be a WT-only thing about not cluttering other people's threads with one's own dross.
 

Richard H

Western Thunderer
Yes, I love the detail in the Ferry Point photo with the rickety ballast cranes and the rows of mini-chaldrons. I assume the little hut on the slipway at the extreme left is the office for the ferrymen.

Thanks for the detail on the ED photo - we spent a while over this without any conclusions.

My apologies - SBB refers to this thread which I came across when I read the intro on joining the other day. Seems to be a WT-only thing about not cluttering other people's threads with one's own dross.
Ah! - thank you. I'm not used to using a forum, so I don't necessarily spot the shorthand. I didn't regard your pics as SB or B - just an interesting follow-up to something I posted because of your office location, and with some relevance to my project.
 
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adrian

Flying Squad
Seems to be a WT-only thing about not cluttering other people's threads with one's own dross.
Please don't let that stop you from posting as it's not a hard and fast rule. We generally leave it to the original poster on the thread to flag it up if there is an issue. In some cases the original poster of a thread likes to keep it focussed on the original subject so occasionally we might move a couple of posts to a new thread to keep it clear. However if the original poster is happy to see it spark off on different tangents, and in this case it seems like @Richard H is in that camp, then we have no problem in letting it continue.
 

Richard H

Western Thunderer
Please don't let that stop you from posting as it's not a hard and fast rule. We generally leave it to the original poster on the thread to flag it up if there is an issue. In some cases the original poster of a thread likes to keep it focussed on the original subject so occasionally we might move a couple of posts to a new thread to keep it clear. However if the original poster is happy to see it spark off on different tangents, and in this case it seems like @Richard H is in that camp, then we have no problem in letting it continue.
Hello, Adrian, and thank you for your guidance. You are right that I was not worried about this recent series of postings on my thread, because I started the digression when I posted the 'Salmon's Quay' map. This was whimsical but also a response to Chris' stated location; I found Chris' reply very interesting - and it led to some useful and informative findings and exchanges of information and ideas, and I felt able to contribute to what became a short conversation. I would be wary if a series of postings diverged significantly from the original focus, though, or went on too long, or seemed to be going 'out of control' in some way. It's very helpful to know that it's legitimate to create a new thread when necessary.
Happy New Year to all!
Richard
 

adrian

Flying Squad
I found Chris' reply very interesting
You're not the only one who found it interesting.
It's very helpful to know that it's legitimate to create a new thread when necessary.
There's no problem with that, the forum software makes it very easy for one of the Flying Squad (admin team) to select the relevant posts and move them in one go over to a new thread. At the end of the day it's simple respect for the original poster, it might be that as a tangent develops it would be better served by a separate thread.
 

Richard H

Western Thunderer
You're not the only one who found it interesting.

There's no problem with that, the forum software makes it very easy for one of the Flying Squad (admin team) to select the relevant posts and move them in one go over to a new thread. At the end of the day it's simple respect for the original poster, it might be that as a tangent develops it would be better served by a separate thread.
I'm still learning about forums - it's useful to know that you'd use terms/concepts like 'tangent'. It's also good to feel secure in the sound moderation and management of the forum,
Thanks again,
Richard H
 
Fiddle yard modified to a traverser

Richard H

Western Thunderer
The recent e-mail from Simon Castens & Iain Rice had a positively diuretic effect, triggering the sudden recognition of an urgent need. I urgently need to turn again to my layout, as in recent months my only significant railway-related activity has been to enjoy Mick Bonwick’s superb one-day courses on weathering.

I realised some time ago that traversers would allow easier operation and more effective off-scene storage than the cassettes I had originally intended, but this decision led only to resolute procrastination until last week when, with much ecouragement from Paul (of Old Parrock), I took a saw to the right-hand fiddle yard.

I calculated that I had space to fit a three-road traverser approximately 430mm long. I wanted a simple sliding mechanism that could be fitted entirely within the existing baseboard, and be removed if necessary for maintenance, but with sufficient space beneath it for electronics.

The traverser is a simple ‘inverted tray’ consisting of a trackbed of 9mm birch-faced ply, braced underneath with sides and end pieces. One side of a runner mechanism is screwed to each end of the traverser table. The other side of each runner mechanism is screwed into L-shaped brackets constructed from 9mm ply, which are screwed beneath the original baseboard at either end of the aperture for the traverser table, and are designed to ensure the accurate positioning and aligment of the runners. The picture below shows the runners and brackets fixed to the traverser table, thus forming an integral unit; in this view the whole assembly is inverted, as if seen from below the baseboard. The sketch which follows the photograph shows a cross section of the runner arrangement.

Sector plate 19 - platform + brackets assembly - oblique + inverted 180508 - reduced for forum.jpeg


Sector Plate 028 - fitting runners - sketch - reduced for forum - 180508 crop.jpeg


In order to fit the runners to a plywood surface without a machined groove, both parts of the runner unit must be securely fixed at or near both ends and this required the drilling of one new hole in the part that would normally be held in the drawer groove.

Fitting the traverser assembly into the aperture required aligning the top surface of the traverser with the top surface of the baseboard trackbed, and ensuring just enough clearance at both ends for free movment. This was achieved by careful measurement then using two pieces of thin card as a spacer when fitting the traverser into the aperture. To ensure accuracy, pilot holes were drilled for the screws through the baseboard top.

From above the final result looks like this:

Sector plate 20 - sector plate fitted - runners visible 180508 - reduced for forum.jpeg


Below the fitted traverser there is just over 50mm clearance, which will be used to accommodate most of the electronic components of the DCC system and the LED transformer. The ‘patched-in’ appearance of some of the visible ply surfaces is a result of the structure being made from my few remaining offcuts of 9mm birch ply.

I have a traverser! I still need to make something similar for the other fiddle yard, but the next stage is to get beyond the foundations and work on the parts that might actually, eventually, look like a railway. I hope to be able to report some progress before I reply to Simon & Iain’s email.
Richard H
 
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PaulR

Western Thunderer
Richard, the quality of this work and attention to detail is amazing. As someone who acts first and thinks later, I'm pretty impressed by your attention to detail. The basic structures are the backbone of the layout need to be well constructed. Yours clearly will be strong and durable - good work sir!

I'm looking forward to seeing how the other fiddle yard turns out.
 

Richard H

Western Thunderer
Richard, the quality of this work and attention to detail is amazing. As someone who acts first and thinks later, I'm pretty impressed by your attention to detail. The basic structures are the backbone of the layout need to be well constructed. Yours clearly will be strong and durable - good work sir!

I'm looking forward to seeing how the other fiddle yard turns out.
Thanks, Paul - I'm also looking forward to seeing how the other one turns out.
 
Modifying Peco points

Richard H

Western Thunderer
Today I modified three Peco Code 75 Electrofrog points. The modifications are intended to improve the appearance of the points by removing the various plastic exrescences around the tiebar, and the tiebar itself. The technique was devised by Simon Cullen and described by him in an article in 'Railway Modeller', July issue 2017, pp.594-6. I'd like to record my thanks to Mr Cullen for sharing his very neat design. His method is well worth considering as a way of improving the appearance of Peco Code 75 points. The article gives comprehensive and detailed instructions, so I shall not describe them here.

I have deviated from the original design, though, in that I have changed the way the linkage attaches to the tiebar, replacing Simon Cullen's wire loop with a piece of tube to make it easier to connect the tiebar to the actuating wire of a DCCConcepts points motor fitting in the normal vertical position.

The first photo illustrates the intention behind the job (essentially to make the points look better) and this overview gives an idea of how the points look after modification.

First three Peco points modified - top view 02 - 180518 - reduced for forum.jpeg


Underneath the points the original plastic tiebar has been replaced with a new one made from 4mm scale 'copperclad' sleeper strip. The new tiebar is fitted with three tubes, the outer pair of tubes holding 'L-droppers' which are soldered to the underside of the point blades while the centre tube takes the actuating wire from the point motor. The next photos show the underside of the points and the new tiebar arrangement.

First three Peco points modified - underneath 01 - 180518 - reduced for forum.jpeg


In addition to the tiebar, the points have been prepared for switched frog operation.

First three Peco points modified - both sides of tiebar 180518.JPG


Simon Cullen's original design included a cosmetic tiebar made from plastic and glued to the new functional tiebar. I modified this aspect of his design when I realised that the centre tube would work better fro me, and could also be used to support a length of 2mm scale copperclad sleeper strip, soldered in place to represent a tiebar. This obviates the need for glued plastic. While the cosmetic tiebar is not a detailed, accurate model of the prototype it could form a foundation for further detailing.

This tiebar replacement method produces points which work accurately but very freely, the blades moving easily under the effect of gravity when the point is tilted. I have two more points to modify, then I can start tracklaying. It's been quite encouraging to find that I can remember how to solder and that my modelling skills have not been lost in the wilderness years since my last (amost finished) layout.
Richard
 

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Richard H

Western Thunderer
Friday afternooon, and my layout may still have bare boards ... but it's no longer at risk of being deemed pointless.

First five Peco points modified 02 - 180519 - reduced for forum.JPG

It feels as if I've reached another milestone - perhaps only a quarter-milestone - but I've re-learned some skills (e.g. careful soldering), and developed a little more confidence in my approach to modelling, and had a couple of chastening thoughts about the perils of an untidy workspace, and how easy it is to end up in a clutter of tools and components, in which the tool you want to use is hiding.

As an aside, I remember that years ago, in response to an enquiry about Christmas presents for railway modellers, Cyril Freezer wrote that modellers can never have too many 'holding tools'. In doing this relatively straightforward job, I've realised that at different times I used several types of proprietary and home-made holding tools:
  • three different types of tweezers, including self-closing ones,
  • a small hand vice,
  • a small, light bench vice with a movable head,
  • small pliers
  • wooden sprung clothes pegs, one in its original form, and one with the arms reversed to form a flat-jawed clamp (very useful)
  • a small clamp shaped from a sprung hair grip (made of aluminium - very easy to shape to purpose
  • coffee-stirrers and lolly-sticks used as probes,with two of them specifically shaped to hold metal in position whilst soldering
  • cocktail sticks, used a sort of mandrel when handling very small pieces of tube.
Thanks again to Simon Cullen for the article in RM which gave me the impetus to try these modification - it was very helpful, even if at times I chose to deviate from his rather cunning design.
Richard
 

jonte

Western Thunderer
Friday afternooon, and my layout may still have bare boards ... but it's no longer at risk of being deemed pointless.

View attachment 87916
It feels as if I've reached another milestone - perhaps only a quarter-milestone - but I've re-learned some skills (e.g. careful soldering), and developed a little more confidence in my approach to modelling, and had a couple of chastening thoughts about the perils of an untidy workspace, and how easy it is to end up in a clutter of tools and components, in which the tool you want to use is hiding.

As an aside, I remember that years ago, in response to an enquiry about Christmas presents for railway modellers, Cyril Freezer wrote that modellers can never have too many 'holding tools'. In doing this relatively straightforward job, I've realised that at different times I used several types of proprietary and home-made holding tools:
  • three different types of tweezers, including self-closing ones,
  • a small hand vice,
  • a small, light bench vice with a movable head,
  • small pliers
  • wooden sprung clothes pegs, one in its original form, and one with the arms reversed to form a flat-jawed clamp (very useful)
  • a small clamp shaped from a sprung hair grip (made of aluminium - very easy to shape to purpose
  • coffee-stirrers and lolly-sticks used as probes,with two of them specifically shaped to hold metal in position whilst soldering
  • cocktail sticks, used a sort of mandrel when handling very small pieces of tube.
Thanks again to Simon Cullen for the article in RM which gave me the impetus to try these modification - it was very helpful, even if at times I chose to deviate from his rather cunning design.
Richard

I have this article too, Richard, having bought a copy of RM at the airport prior to my summer holiday last year. It really inspired me to want to have a go as and when the opportunity arrived.

Yours is a worthy amendment, Richard, and one for the annals.

I look forward to reading more of your continued progress.

Thanks for sharing,

Jonte
 

Richard H

Western Thunderer
I have this article too, Richard, having bought a copy of RM at the airport prior to my summer holiday last year. It really inspired me to want to have a go as and when the opportunity arrived.

Yours is a worthy amendment, Richard, and one for the annals.

I look forward to reading more of your continued progress.

Thanks for sharing,

Jonte
Thanks for your comments and encouragement, Jonte - much appreciated!
 
Underlay & second traverser

Richard H

Western Thunderer
This has been another one of those days when the Railway Modeller really came in useful:

Glueing underlay weighted with volumes of RM 01 180519 reduced for forum.jpeg


I've been fixing underlay in place and needed weight to ensure it dries flat and level - if ply boards with 16 years worth of RM on them can't do that then I'm sunk. The adhesive is Evostick spray carpet adhesive - something I have not used before. I made some experiments with patches of underlay and ply, and it seems pretty effective, but the real test will be when I take the weights off. Both of the materials to be joined need to be sprayed, and although the aerosol is reasonably controllable I masked everything to ensure I could work quickly and cleanly. Positioning the underlay was 'interesting', as the glue makes a more-or-less instant bond upon contact.

Leaving the underlay to dry, I started work on constructing a traverser for the second fiddle yard. This involved joining offcuts of ply from my scrap box to make panels large enough to use as the traverser platform. The ply I used was the last of the slightly larger offcuts, and what now remains in the scrap box is of only limited use:

Scrap box - source material for 2nd traverser 180519 reduced for forum.jpeg


The last task of the day was to laminate two layers of my ply panels to make the traverser platform, so that can be worked tomorrow. At the same time I also made the two brackets (L-shaped in section) to which the traverser's groove-runners will be fixed. Paint tins made lo-tech but adequate weights for laminating, while clamps served for the L-brackets:

Laminating 2nd traverser platform under weights + L-brackets clamped 180519 reduced for forum.jpeg


Tomorrow's first job is to construct the 'inverted tray' forming the traverser itself, and then I need to cut the hole in the baseboard surface to accommodate the traverser, and cut transverse holes in part of the framing to accommodate the runners - as with the previous fiddle yard conversion, that's a source of some apprehension. The remaining time will be spent on tracklaying.

This resurgence of activity has led to material progress on the layout; apart from that being fairly motivating in itself, I now feel justified in replying to that diuretic email from Simon Castens and Iain Rice, confirming that I am still "in" the Cameo Competition.
Richard
 

jonte

Western Thunderer
You should turn your hand to boat building, Richard.

Putting a twelve inches to the foot scale Bristol Channel Pilot cutter looks a darned sight easier than this ;)

All very neat.

Jonte
 

Richard H

Western Thunderer
You should turn your hand to boat building, Richard.

Putting a twelve inches to the foot scale Bristol Channel Pilot cutter looks a darned sight easier than this ;)

All very neat.

Jonte
Ah! - thank you - but most of my baseboards have holes all over, in funny places. so I don't think I'd be very successful at boat-building. Bristol Channel Pilot Cutter?
 
Second traverser installed and working

Richard H

Western Thunderer
After a long weekend of working on the layout, I have the trackbed laid (the Evostick carpet adhesive and the 16 years of Railway Modeller volumes did the trick. That allowed me to focus today on assembling the second traverser and modifying the existing fiddle yard to accept it. One of the challenging parts of the job was cutting away some of the internal structure of the baseboard (the part that supports it on the drawer runners) whilst leaving enough timber in place to keep everything rigid and stable. I think I've achieved that.

Cutting the aperture was tricky enough, but cutting away sub-structure was trickier. The traverser has about 1mm of clearance beneath it and slides smoothly to serve two tracks.

One of the things that make it worthwhile is that, although it's only a two-track traverser, one of the tracks is in a cassette, which means that this small traverser can be used to serve any number of trains. The cassette road serves the track which leads to 'the west end of the quayside' where shipyard railways produced traffic. I believe that this system will give me most of the flexibiltiy I need.

Here's a photo of the new traverser fitted into the left-hand fiddle yard:

Traverser in place 03 - cassette + tracks mocked up - storage box - overview reduced or forum.jpeg


The track is not fixed, but is temporarily there just to give the effect. A cassette with 'Perspex' sides is sitting in its channel on the traverser table and is aligned with the rearmost track at this end of the layout; the cassette road also serves the track at the front of the layout.

I have to admit that this feels like a big step forward, in that I can now concentrate on the tracklaying, DCC controls and the scenic modelling.
Richard
 

Richard H

Western Thunderer
That's a very nice craft. Are you restoring it? I know this is off topic, and boats are not my field, but I came across an interesting inscription in a battered book dating from probably the first or second decade of the 19thC, given to me by a friend. The book is inscribed in several places by a John Winks of North Shields, who may have been the man who later ran a tavern at the Low Lights, or may have been his son. The theme of the book, and one particular inscription, suggest the owner went - or was about to go - to sea. Included amongst the several inscriptions is a simple - even naive - sketch of a sailing boat, which to my eye seems to capture the feel of a boat heeling in a fresh wind:

John Winks Book Inscriptions 01 - boat sketch reduced for forum.jpeg


I think this was drawn by a boy or young man who had observed ships and boats, as it depicts quite accurately the mast and topmast arrangement, the rudder and tiller, and the rather sinuous lines of the hull. The vertical dashes on the main sail are curious but appear deliberate - I wonder if these might be an attempt to represent reefing points. If I've interpreted the drawing, and understood the definition, correctly this boat seems to have the key features of a gaff-rigged cutter. If so, then it's probably not a Tyne Pilots boat, because records suggest that they used cobles rather than cutters. I think, given the owner's family and location, it was probably sketched from direct observation, and possibly near the mouth of the river, at the Low Lights. As I said, off-topic, but certainly relevant to Low Lights history.

In terms of railway activity today, I have done a number of minor jobs in preparation for track-laying, and some necessary minor adjustments to other structures as a result of installing the second traverser. For instance, the storage box behind the traverser had been made narrower (front to back) to allow room in front of it to stand a spare cassette for the traverser.
Richard
 
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