The train shed: Liverpool (Cheapside) G.W.R.

phileakins

Western Thunderer
Desert Island Disks is the programme you were thinking of.

You are also allowed one luxury item in addition to your three items. What will it be?

Cheers.

Phil
 

jonte

Western Thunderer
Desert Island Disks is the programme you were thinking of.

You are also allowed one luxury item in addition to your three items. What will it be?

Cheers.

Phil

Indeed it was, Phil. Silly me.

Luxury item? Good question. Presently, this comes to mind:

http://www.brassmasters.co.uk/images/GWR Finney/Bulldog 3425 TJMallard.jpg

built by somebody competent like Heather of this parish, and to P4 standard as sadly I doubt I could ever put one together even if I lived to a hundred. Aahhh.....
Der, der, der-der-der-der-der, der-der-der-der, der.....
......etc.

Jonte.
 

Lightman

Active Member
Yes these books are highly prized by me. Some years ago I had a massive clearout of my railway liabrary but hept the realy important (to me) books. I also have several books by John Ahern, Greenly, and others of the old school modellers. The information is just as good today as back then as well as the modelling techniques. Cheers, Earl
 
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jonte

Western Thunderer
Yes these books are highly prized by me. Some years ago I had a massive clearout of my railway liabrary but hept the realy important (to me) books. I also have several books by John Ahern, Greenly, and others of the old school modellers. The information is just as good today as back then as well as the modelling techniques. Cheers, Earl

You’re obviously a man of good taste, Earl.

John Ahern’s structures may have been simply made, but they still ooze atmosphere. Inspirational.

Bestest,

Jonte.
 

jonte

Western Thunderer
Have been working on that long overdue plan I promised Paul (PMP) over the last couple of modelling sessions, but today has been warm ‘n’ sunny so have put it in back burner again.

However, I’m anxious to press on with the shed build so thought I’d seek the refuge of some cool welcome shade inside and seize the opportunity to test out one or two ideas I’ve had about replicating worn/weathered wood for the bargeboards, which would have borne the brunt of weathering caused by the elements and smoke.

As the beigey mix I’d intended to use was, well, a poor representation of the real thing, I decided to experiment with a darker shade of brown and some metallic paint on a scrap piece of bass/obechi, to see what I’d end up with:

26B228CF-021C-4E20-8399-4D63B42CDB28.jpeg

What you see are four distinct areas, all formed by some vigorous rubbing with a cotton bud, piece of paper towel and index finger.

Working from left to right, the first has received the most rubbing down, next the least, followed by raw state, while the outside has received somewhere in between. Choice-wise, I like the second and fourth (toss a coin), the first being too thin, the middle looking too much like drift wood, although some may say the drift wood is the ideal effect to aim for in the weathered-wood stakes. I’m not sure.

Anyhow, overall, a more convincing attempt at that - for me - elusive worn wood look, and a good base for my next experiment: to test white spirit as an inhibitor for acrylic paint I.e. hopefully another way to achieve the chipped paint effect that Maskol is so unreliable at in such a small scale.

Hope this is of interest, fellow Westerners, and feel free to let me know what you think.

Back to the garden.

Jonte

Edited to include an earlier shot for comparison, where I hadn’t removed as much of the silver/grey from the surface:

97568904-374E-406C-8C5B-7EE52AF7820C.jpeg
 
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jonte

Western Thunderer
Hello again fellow Westerners. Just thought I’d update you re part of yesterday’s entry.

Had a spare half an hour late on this afternoon so ran that paint chipping experiment I mentioned in yesterday’s post to test out it’s viability; here is the result:

A7A108D5-B484-4DE1-9238-920DF67F8CB7.jpeg

Apologies for the somewahat garish blue colour, but all I needed for a top coat was any old acrylic paint so I chose one at random from an ancient Reeves acrylic paint set. Please also ignore the blue blobs as they’re part of something else that entered my rather small brain.

For the benefit of those who have kindly followed my witterings thus far, all I did was wash some white spirit across the underlying paint from yesterday’s toils to act as a resist, which I quickly dried with a hairdryer, before applying three coats of water thinned (merely to make it workable) acrylic paint, drying each coat in between with said hairdryer to speed up the process and get back to planting the latest floral acquisitions to the garden before the boss noticed I was missing.

After the final coat, I just randomly dabbed pieces of masking tape, sellotape and parcel tape across the surface in no particular order (in fact anything with a sticky surface will do) to act as a ‘chipper’. And that was it.

Looks okay, but unsure whether it’s suitable for the fairly narrow surface of my bargeboards. Hmm..

Also, I think it wise to seal the enamel paint beneath before adopting this rather abrasive technique as it would appear that some of the underlying paint has also come away in places. A Matt varnish immediately comes to mind, but after further consideration, gloss would be better as it would probably provide less of a key to the underlying paint and therefore act as a sacrificial surface that would become victim to the process instead of the paint (if you follow my drift). That could, of course, just be a load of old twaddle.

If I go with it I’ll let you knowhow I got on, fellow Westerners (just hope I’m not boring you all to death with my to-ing and fro-ing).

Jonte
 

Lightman

Active Member
I agree, Very interesting. Can't wait to see how it all turns out before I try experimenting on painting items to look old or faded. Cheers, Earl
 

jonte

Western Thunderer
Interesting!

Best
Simon

Many thanks for your continued interest, Simon. After sleeping on it I think I’ll give it a bash, but it throws up yet another spanner in the works: how to arrive at the same colour in acrylics.

Regards,

Jonte
 

Yorkshire Dave

Western Thunderer
test out one or two ideas I’ve had about replicating worn/weathered wood for the bargeboards, which would have borne the brunt of weathering caused by the elements and smoke.

I stain the wood first with dilute black ink to replicate the greyness of wood which has been exposed to the elements before painting the model. The finished effect is here

The wood was stained with dilute black ink. I eventually applied three washes to increase the density. Spots of Copydex was added as a mask before painting grey. Once dry I rubbed off the Copydex to reveal the unpainted weathered wood. Decals were applied and the parts over the bare wood removed. Once I was satisfied I applied a final black wash to highlight the deep grain and left to dry. Followed by a light drybrushing of chalky white to highlight the raised grain. And yes, I use acrylic paints on all of my models.


I do like the effect on your station awning supports :thumbs:.
 

jonte

Western Thunderer
Very interesting, the light fall through the roof is fascinating and I can imagine the atmosphere that could create. Do you have a track plan sketch we could see please?

Hi Paul.

Sketch plan attached for your info as requested (apologies for the poor quality) at long last. Unfortunately, I had to do it in stages as I was using ‘Tem-flop’. Like Templot, only not as reliable.

Liverpool (Cheapside) G.W.R. Circa 1960:

C5A41CC2-1527-417D-BC4E-E352FFE62156.jpeg 658DC521-2AE3-4468-8DB6-D4161E5B5284.jpeg 2A0FA6AE-06D1-4675-BF27-388AC51203EA.jpeg

Rudimentary to say the least but at least it gives you an idea of how the ‘three-points-system’ is arranged.

A resemblance to a plan used by any modeller of the Scottish scene, living or moved overseas, is sheer coincidence ;)

Length 6’ , width to be determined. Width currently to left of plan 30”, reducing to 22” to the left.

Some of the area adjacent to the parcels road will be used for hidden sidings if I use a sector plate, otherwise tapered inwards towards the exit if I opt for a traverser.

No.1 denotes ‘Parcels’ road, No.2 Arrivals, No.3 Departures and No.4 Pilot engine’s siding.

The yellow masking tape marks the location of the train-shed and the orange markings, the platforms.

A lot to do about nothing really, but that’s how these unsung termini ended up as I’m sure you are well aware. I have a timetable roughed out, but predictably, most manoeuvres are pretty similar.

Incidentally, Cheapside enjoyed a Mackenzie Holland GWR type box (not known if original) although unusually, it was set into the sandstone wall of the cutting. As far as I can gather, it remained until closure although I’m saddened to discover that those military vandals installed concrete type platform faces at some stage during their tenure. You can’t have everything I suppose, and Cheapside is a prime example of a station showing the marked changes encountered over the years, including the void between platforms where the original turntable was situated, later to be replaced by a sector table. However, I wonder whether Mr. Williamson had Broad Gauge pretensions ?

Alas we shall never know.

Regards,

Jonte

Just a brief edit to mention that the sketch does not show the narrow girder bridge that crossed the line just above the set of points. This was erected at the insistence of the landowner, Lord Derby, to replace the lane that was sacrificed during construction of the cutting. Jonte.
 
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jonte

Western Thunderer
Hi Dave

Apologies for the late reply.

That’s magnificent. I’m getting splinters just looking at it.

Lance Mindheim is an advocate of India ink diluted In Isopropyl, but on plastic based models.

It works a treat on wood as you’ve shown. Incidentally, I only used wood as I had bits of it lying around at the time (I’m tight!) preferring to use plastic, therefore I had to go with paint based weathering to match as the rest of the build will in the main be built of plasticard.
However, therein lies the problem: I’m a little cautious about exploiting the natural wood grain in the smaller scales; it looks great as you’ve shown, Dave, but in 4mill it can start to look out of scale - something which for me creates a dilemma as the eye expects to see it.
If you look back to my previous couple of posts, you can see that I attempted to convey scale grain by rubbing the base colour and highlights, which in reality - especially under the chipped top coat - will be barely discernible, but still I was quite pleased with the grain effect, although I’m probably kidding myself. Hence, I’ve gone back to a dark beige mix, highlighted with a mix of silver grey and silver dry brushed on, again barely discernible although I might retouch it. As I mentioned, Dave, I find that weathered wood sheen slightly elusive - too flat or too shiny - which I think might just be the Holy Grail for we modellers.

Another scale issue for me involved the chipped test piece shown above. Again, this looks great in the very large scales but one has to exercise an air of caution in my scale, although the smaller chippings that call for greater control should pass muster.

Interesting that you use Copydex, Dave. I believe that Chuck Doan uses Gum Arabic for the purpose with some great results like yourself.

I’m glad you liked the columns, Dave, as they again were the source of some angst in the scale stakes. I wanted the same patina for the rusty metal as per the drainpipes in my station building build a couple of years back:

02FE375C-025F-4740-8DB9-0D1BA30B3F31.jpeg 28B74F55-45B2-4278-BBC4-11A9F873F288.jpeg

However, I think the rust looks a little too lumpy.

I used a slightly different technique this time which wasn’t as proud of the surface to keep a more scale look, but if I’m honest, I prefer the ones on the station building. Hey ho! I’m never happy. Think I might go back to it for the rest of the build, after all, it’s only a train Set!

Sorry to go on, Dave, but thank you for your interest and kind compliment, as well as taking time to share your excellent method with me.

Regards,

Jonte

PS Luv the highlights on the chassis and metal work.
 

Yorkshire Dave

Western Thunderer
That's what it's all about sharing and plagiarism ;).

What struck me about the columns was the effect where the paint chipped and 'fell off' in lumps as you often see on cast iron down pipes with its associated rusting.

in 4mill it can start to look out of scale - something which for me creates a dilemma as the eye expects to see it.

I agree with you about wood grain in the smaller scales as at the end of the day the laws of physics takes over. I've seen very good detailed scale model ships but as soon as they are on t' tarn the water is hopelessly out of scale and more akin to the roaring 40s in the southern ocean.

I suppose the trick in smaller scales is to deceive the eye by having two or three areas of weathered 'grained' wood in a prominent place and once seen by the viewer their mind fills the grain as they look into rest of the structure. After all, isn't railway modelling a form of deception .

As for masking materials I seen wargamers use Marmite. Here they scrunch up a piece of tissue paper (the sort found in kits), dip it in Marmite and and dab it on the walls. It is most effective around doorways on painted buildings to create the flaking paint effect from constant wear thereby exposing the paint underneath.
 

jonte

Western Thunderer
That's what it's all about sharing and plagiarism ;).

What struck me about the columns was the effect where the paint chipped and 'fell off' in lumps as you often see on cast iron down pipes with its associated rusting.



I agree with you about wood grain in the smaller scales as at the end of the day the laws of physics takes over. I've seen very good detailed scale model ships but as soon as they are on t' tarn the water is hopelessly out of scale and more akin to the roaring 40s in the southern ocean.

I suppose the trick in smaller scales is to deceive the eye by having two or three areas of weathered 'grained' wood in a prominent place and once seen by the viewer their mind fills the grain as they look into rest of the structure. After all, isn't railway modelling a form of deception .

As for masking materials I seen wargamers use Marmite. Here they scrunch up a piece of tissue paper (the sort found in kits), dip it in Marmite and and dab it on the walls. It is most effective around doorways on painted buildings to create the flaking paint effect from constant wear thereby exposing the paint underneath.

Marmite? Wonders never cease :eek:

You make a good point about deception and I shall bear in mind the hack of deceiving the viewer with perceived grain!

I’ve trawled the ‘net gawping at rusty columns and iron mongery to note their characteristics, in fact worryingly so. I noted especially that they seemed to show patches of new rust (denoted by the lighter coloured variety) almost blight like, but without any bare metal or noticeable older rust below. I hope I’ve managed to reproduce the effect to an acceptable degree, although I’ve still to add some similar touches to most of them plus some more grimy runs on one or two - hopefully without overdoing it.

Anyway Dave, here’s to nicking others’ great ideas ;)

Jonte
 

PMP

Western Thunderer
Hi Paul.

Sketch plan attached for your info as requested (apologies for the poor quality) at long last. Unfortunately, I had to do it in stages as I was using ‘Tem-flop’. Like Templot, only not as reliable.

Regards,

Jonte
.

Thanks for that, it looks like it will have 'play value', Mr Futers did a very similar plan for one of his Scottish Diesel layouts and it was very watchable.
 

jonte

Western Thunderer
Thank you kindly fellow Westerners for your interest and likes; it spurs you on when things get, shall we say, challenging.

A case in point, attaching a beam to the tops of the columns, or at least trying to:

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I thought good old slow setting Araldite two-part resin would do the trick but, no.
As I mentioned previously, the Evergreen beams were flimsier than I thought and morphed into Anacondas once paint etc had been applied, which made them resist all attempts to remain in line and stuck to the columns.

The only solution was to wipe the column tops and the beams clean of resin and go back to using solvent, which I liberally applied with the aim of removing any final traces of resin which might prove a barrier to adhesion. Never mind, it’s stuck now and that’s all that matters.

Otherwise, I hope you can just make out the fish plates which I mentioned before and which were formed from more Evergreen section. If I was to attempt this again, I’d be tempted to shave them down a little as the shadows make them look like they’re more 7 mil scale or even larger. Never mind. One to bear in mind for the future.

Finally, as I also touched on in a previous post, I’ve gone back to my old method of applying rust: a little too lumpy but more pleasing to mine eye (yep, I’m easily pleased), and certainly an improvement on those lacklustre columns.

And now for the second beam ..............

Many thanks,

Jonte
 
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