7mm 7mm Mick's Workbench - LNER A2/3 60514 Chamossaire

[7mmMick]

Hi Bob,

It looks to have the makings of a lovely model and with a few upgraded parts here and there I'm sure it will really capture the prototype well. I have to admit when I began researching this build, the rebuilds and then the later A2/3's looked a little ugly but the more I read and studied the thing really grew on me. Then I saw a model of an A3 at Telford with a new DCC sound set up where you can alter the cut off, which softens the exhaust beat and I really got excited about this build. I now view it as a handsome beast and can already see it finished

Cheers Tony,

It's great to be back TBH. Lots have things have got in the way over the last couple of years ( all great things BTW ) and I'm now hoping these distractions will mean the next few years will hopefully glean a lot more modelling time. Have a great Christmas pal and see you at Bristol

Mick

 

[7mmMick]

DESPERATE to get back on the bench

So a small update here. I've been doing the odd ten minutes here and half an hour there and have made some steady progress on the tender for Chamossaire. The next step was to put together the coal space and the front bulkhead. The bulkhead was straight forward, a neat fold up affair. The brass castings supplied were nice, for the moment there are drilled out for their shafts, but I won't fit these until the footplate is permanently fixed ( it's only sat there for now). Next was the coal space, which is a kind of slot and tab. However I hit a problem, it just didn't fit!

There should not be a large gap at the top. So the gap was measured and the equivalent material removed as scribed above. A suitable fit was established and although you can make out the tab holes on the right I have filled them with solder and then dressed back and cleaned up. Although now a little tarnished I'm happy with it.
Next I moved onto the frame section. DJH supply frames that slot into the footplate ( see previous photos ). I made a start folding the steps up right about the time @P A D was putting his LNER tender together and I just wasn't happy with the level of detail. I'm sure it would have looked fine but the underarm is just, shall we say "of it's time". After consultation with @mickoo I opted to return fit a Finney underframe instead. I was a little too down the line so surgery was required to solder in two 6Ba nuts.

Surgery complete leaving plenty of room to fit the nuts and now access to all that space. I'll document the underarm build as it has already been done elsewhere. The only thing I will show is a slight deviation from a straight kit build in as much as I'm fitting Ragstone Castings in place of Finney etched parts. I just prefer them and they better represent the heft of these things IMHO. So first the inner frame with the brake cross shaft from Ragstone

The outer frame just requiring WM axle boxes etc to finish

Brake cross shaft with bearing fitted to outer frame
Bloody carpet monster ate the other bearing so i'm hoping for a replacement at Donny.

Front bulkhead

This side on shot of the etch detail under frame makes the extra work and cost worth the effort I think. Much nicer than the original offering
And finally progress so far.
I've realised I have the tender wheels with 3/16 axles so i'll have to purchase the 5/32 axle version from Slaters. I can then crack on and get the tender finished all being well?

 

[P A D]

Hi Mick,
Nice work on the the tender. The Finney under frames really lift it, and the cast brake cross shaft is much better than the etched one that comes in the kit. Had they been more visible I would have done the same on the A3 tender, but in the end I decided to live with the etchings.

You could save a few quid and use the 3/16 axles as I did. I just widened the slots in the inner frame with a chain saw file. You also have the benefit of being able to remove the wheels as normal for painting.

Cheers,
Peter

 

[7mmMick]

Hi Mick,
Nice work on the the tender. The Finney under frames really lift it, and the cast brake cross shaft is much better than the etched one that comes in the kit. Had they been more visible I would have done the same on the A3 tender, but in the end I decided to live with the etchings.

You could save a few quid and use the 3/16 axles as I did. I just widened the slots in the inner frame with a chain saw file. You also have the benefit of being able to remove the wheels as normal for painting.

Cheers,
Peter

Hi Peter,

I've just been watching your A3 Video from Donny, very inspirational mate. It's a real shame I couldn't make it but family comes before toy trains (as my wife would say!!). And she's right to be fair.

I thought about making the underarm holes larger to accept the 3/16 axles but have chosen to go with the 5/32 to be honest. I'm a little too far down the line now and don't fancy chopping the frame about when it's not in the flat. With that in mind i'm offering the 3/16 version for sale or straight swap for a set of 5/32 axles if anyone out there has some they want to do away with?


I'd like £60 for the lot with a couple of quid for postage I would have thought? Please PM if interested,

Cheers

Mick

 

[7mmMick]

So i've put the tender to one side whilst I get the wheels sorted and decided to crack on with the loco. I think the general opinion of DJH kits is that the upper works are of a good standard but the frame area can be a little lacking. That is how I would describe the A2/3. With that in mind I have sourced a number of after market castings to bring it up to where I would like it to be. The frame plates are old school heavy duty affairs and cutting out for horn blocks will take more than a couple of saw blades I bet!

I'm initially looking at the basic frame and have chosen Finney Hornblocks. I'm hoping to build in the Finney type compensation as it seems to work really well and is very robust. If this loco is to be sold on completion I don't want it failing on the customer. If anyone has any useful info on compensation please feel free to share it

So the Hornblocks went together well and I started looking at the coupling rods. They seemed hugely over etched for me so instead I've opted for a set of finned A1/3 ones, which are much finer. The only issues is they needed a cut and shut job. I set up the chassis jig with the DJH coupling rods;


And then made a start chopping the Finney A3 ones, ensuring the joint has good overlap front and rear;

I would have preferred to have made the visible front joint nearer the end of the rod but they're not parallel so to maintain the profile I had to make to joint in the centre.

Next job on the main frame was to drill out for the Ragstone brake hangers, which are a great improvement on the DJH ones as they don't supply any. Instead the block is suspended by a WM peg which fit's into a lug under the frame. This was removed and the frames marked and drilled;

So progress so far, the picture high lights there is still more to do on the coupling rod with the wet and dry but i'm slowly getting there. Next will be the drilling out for the horn block springs, again from Ragstone;



Mick

 

[7mmMick]

Last post here for a while as I'll be starting another build thread elsewhere and finishing off another. More work on the frame assembly. I've borrowed some etched parts from the Finney7 A4 kit to help with the construction of the compensation beams and formulated a plan on how to remove the main axle box springs. All the springs have been split and drilled out to 14BA tapping size. The 14BA nut has been soldered to the bottom of the carrying arms and reduced to mirror the style it was when the casting was fixed. I'm hoping this works well as it's really discreet, which is what I'm trying to achieve. I've also drilled the spring ends offset a little to allow the spring to be fitted nearer the outside of the frames ( to compensate for the DJH thick frame ).



You can see from these views that the compensation beam has zero travel due to the spring hanger casting. Some 'adjustment' to the beam profile will be needed here. For the moment I'm concentrating on one frame plate to get it right before constructing the other side and frames proper.

I've also done some work on the Cartazzi truck frame section, which DJH have as a separate assembly, which I don't like but hey ho. The WM castings isn't brilliant IMHO;

I've opted again to replace these with the Ragstone offering;

I think this looks much nicer, the fidelity is excellent in comparison and I really like the cast spring retaining brackets;

I've also introduced a role on the side frame prior to the lefthand spring hanger here. DJH have it as a straight bend, which isn't correct. I've had limited success but i'm happier with the overall look of this section now;

That's all on my own bench for now. See you after a couple of other build threads elsewhere,

Mick

 

[dibateg]

Those DJH castings look somewhat basic and also a little tired...
Nice Work Mick.

Tony

 

[mickoo]

Those DJH castings look somewhat basic........

That's an elegant way of saying wrong

 

[mickoo]

Mick,

Your going to have to either extend the top of the axle box or the base of equalising beam, the current set up looks like the axle box will sit too high and thus the engine too low.

As a reference the middle of the axle is usually level with the middle horn guide (trailing) web.



At a rough guess I reckon you'll be about 2 mm too low.

 

[7mmMick]

Mick,

Your going to have to either extend the top of the axle box or the base of equalising beam, the current set up looks like the axle box will sit too high and thus the engine too low.

As a reference the middle of the axle is usually level with the middle horn guide (trailing) web.

View attachment 91759

At a rough guess I reckon you'll be about 2 mm too low.

I’ll have another look when the frames are back on the bench mate. Before I cut out for the hornguides I scribed a line at the top of where the axle would sit with the top hat bearing in. With the line as reference in the frames I marked and set out the rocking beams so they ( taking the hornblock dimensions into account ) would achieve the same height. The proof will be in the eating of that pudding when the time comes. I’ll let you know how I get on,

Cheers Mick

 

[7mmMick]

Right, time to blow the dust off of this build and push it over the line. Since my last update I've got the basic frames together having altered the compensation beams to suit. Before I can go much further I wanted to get all the sub assemblies together and the basic body so I can make sure all runs well, negotiates a 6ft curve and most importantly looks right before all the detail work. So far I've got the front bogus, cartazzi truck, cylinders and basic cab together;

Front bogie - This is an etched fold up assembly, I've done away with the brass bearings and opted for the Finney WM axle box casting as the kit offers no detail here. There were drill out to 3/16 axle diameter and modified to fit the bogie. I also fitted a Finney LW AWS receiver as the loco will be based on a 1962 picture with AWS fitted.


I've got the basic cab together as I need this to fit to the firebox and then the foot plate to make sure everything is square. DJH supply a 'wood effect' etch for the floor but I despise these and will represent the planks with wood veneer when the time comes. I've also opted for a Finney back head as the DJH one supplied has the fittings cast on already and separate fittings is my preference. For me the WM lumps don't capture the prototype well enough. The cab roof is just sat in place for now;



I'm currently working on the cylinder/motion bracket area. I've again adopted Finney LW N/S and Brass fittings to replace the DJH WM lumps, although I have kept the slider/crosshead assembly and the cylinder taps as they're quite nice. The only thing I have changed with the crosshead is nip off the brass slide bar and change it for N/S rod as I feel it will improve appearance;


This is progress to date, more detail to add yet and I need to devise a way to connect the motion bracket to the slide bar/cylinder assembly? Any ideas or suggestions are welcome



This is the area I'm trying to replicate;

A2 4-6-2 | 60514 1961-05-14 Doncaster

There's some nice pictures of my chosen model here too

Cheers Mick

 

[mickoo]

I'd be tempted to drill two 0.8 mm holes up through the slide bar rear end through the packing piece and into the base of the bracket, add two short lengths of 0.8 mm wire, leave it slightly long on the base to represent the bolts holding the packing piece in place and then attach the bracket on top with a nice wedge of solder and then clean back.

The wire will give the joint extra strength and once both parts are secured to the frames, or a sub assembly, should be more than strong enough.

I'd probably go for one of these kits if it were not for all the white metal, knowing myself I'd probably end up making new etch work to replace a load of parts .

 

[richard carr]

I can only agree with Mickoo on this one, that should give you a very good joint, how are you going to fix the motion bracket to the frames ?

Richard

 

[Eastsidepilot]

I'd be tempted to drill two 0.8 mm holes up through the slide bar rear end through the packing piece and into the base of the bracket, add two short lengths of 0.8 mm wire, leave it slightly long on the base to represent the bolts holding the packing piece in place and then attach the bracket on top with a nice wedge of solder and then clean back.

The wire will give the joint extra strength and once both parts are secured to the frames, or a sub assembly, should be more than strong enough.

I'd probably go for one of these kits if it were not for all the white metal, knowing myself I'd probably end up making new etch work to replace a load of parts .

I can only agree with Mickoo on this one, that should give you a very good joint, how are you going to fix the motion bracket to the frames ?

Richard

What they said .
Col.

 

[7mmMick]

Thanks for the advice fellas, I'll give that ago I think

Before I can make good the motion bracket area I needed to be sure the fit underneath the footplate was snug as otherwise it just wouldn't look right. So I set about fitting the two huge lumps of pewter (footplate + Smoke box/boiler/firebox ) together and this was where the fun started. To say they need some fettling is understating things. The footplate has a mind of it's bloody own! I wanted to make the boiler removable to aid painting but the footplate can't maintain it's own form under it's own weight, so sadly this is not an option, the two have to be permanently fixed. So I got on with that and found I needed to also fit the cab in the process.

And so to fit the cab I needed to fit the roof because the higher temperature solder would mean I couldn't fit it afterwards. The more I looked at the prototype the more I realised that the rear beading just wasn't good enough. I remember @mickoo having a crack at this with his A3 and I've nicked the idea. So 1mm soft copper wire was used and filled to half round using some suitable N/S sheet as a jig. First attempt;

Great, I thought. I thought wrong, no chance of manipulating the wire once it's filled, it just wants to bend the way physics intended and that's no good! So the second attempt was formed first and then filled down;

Much better. Once this was fitted and the cab roof was in place I was ready to push on. I then found, having straightened the footplate as best I can that the rear of the firebox needed some work, a quick bench grab shot;
Far from ideal !! Anyway I have not got the main structure together and the chimney tacked in place until i'm 100% happy with the position. I do like the Thompson budget sheet metal chimney on this class!



You'll see from the above shots and certainly the following shot that there's still lots of cleaning up to do of the pewter but at least the basic shape is coming together and this will allow me to pick the work up on the frames again;

Incidentally this is how the whole side of the footplate arrives, the feed pips are a real pain to clean up and make a tidy job of.

Cheers

Mick

 

[mickoo]

I've found some very nice jewellers half round beading that is pliable but keeps straight where needed, bought 5m of two sizes, 0.8 and 1.0 mm and it's great. I always bin the stuff supplied in kits and use this all the time.

I'll find the link if you're interested.

 

[warren haywood]

I

I've found some very nice jewellers half round beading that is pliable but keeps straight where needed, bought 5m of two sizes, 0.8 and 1.0 mm and it's great. I always bin the stuff supplied in kits and use this all the time.

I'll find the link if you're interested.

I could do with some

 

[mickoo]

I

I could do with some

Here you go Jeweler's Brass Half Round Wire (Soft) (NuGold) | eBay

Cheap as chips and works really well, it comes as a coil, just stick one end in the vice and give the other a tug, it'll straighten easily and hold it reasonably well. It's softer than nickel silver and possibly the normal supplies of brass, but firmer than copper; it solders really well and cleans up easily afterward.

I used it extensively on the County tender.





I actually ordered 10m of 1.0 and 0.8 mm and will go back and grab some smaller stuff in due course.

 

[warren haywood]

Ordered, cheers mate

 

[Peter Cross]

I got some from Metalsmith. But nice to know of another supply.