7mm RTR DMU's. Is there a market?

[marsa69]

Hi all,

Had the Colonel round for a visit today and whilst talking all things railways we got onto the topic of model DMU's. Personally I think that the likes of Heljan are missing a trick by not producing a 7mm 1st gen DMU along the likes of a 101, 104, 105, 108 etc. THIS IS NOT A WISHLIST! I know skytrex do a 101 but from I've seen and heard it isn't very good. The Bachmann offering still crops up occasionally but wasn't true RTR in so much as you had to have it painted.

So what do you all think? Is there a market out there for 7mm RTR DMU's? I think so,

Cheers,

Mark

PS Edited for Mr Dunkley

 

[Simon Dunkley]

Are you talking generally, or for a specific scale?
Are you talking of plastic injection mouldings, mass-produced, or catch produced brass?

Although more expensive, the latter provides a greater opportunity for variety, if people are prepared to pay for it:

(Not mine, just an example of what is possible for about £500 per vehicle in limited quantities for S scale.)

 

[mickoo]

I think your right, hence my initial dabbling and research into scratch building some after seeing Phils at Ally Pally last week, it was Bachmanns 101 in blue/grey, it was 'expensive', it looked very nice and 'I' wanted one!

 

[Dan Randall]

I think there's most definitely a market, especially for single car units like the Class 121 or 122. They would be ideal for the "minimum space" modeller and for those fortunate enough to have a little more room at their disposal, how about the trailer car to go with them?

Lets not forget DEMU's or EMU's either - the recent Bachmann & Hornby 4mm offerings are superb and I would love a RTR "Thumper" that's as good as the 4mm one.


Regards

Dan

 

[Simon]

I feel a bit of a fraud joining in because I'm not a 7mm modeller, but I think the answer is a resounding "YES".

Especially a 121 and/or a 122 as Dan says, big scale, small train - what's not to like?

And then there are the 123s as noted on another thread, I didn't like units much back in my spotting days but in model form and in retrospect.....

Simon

(Who will get back to his own attempt at one soon)

 

[john lewsey]

I think so to

 

[Rob R]

Derby Lightweight?
I know there were only a couple of the single car units but by far the best looking of any.

Any of the railbussesesesesees? Railbusiii?

Rob

 

[Osgood]

HELJAN railbiii are due in not too distant future - some good pics of prototype on Tower Models site

 

[marsa69]

I agree but from a personal point of view I'd be interested in two car 101,104,105 and 108's as these are the units I saw in my youth at Bolton. For space considerations a two car would be just as good as a single car

 

[Rob R]

I suppose the commercial question is which of the early 2 car units had the greatest geographical spread/service life/fleet size and hence a potentially greater market.

Rob

 

[Rob R]

EMUs were 4-car sets... see Iploffy's workbench for details...

Sorry but proper EMUs were 3 car (306) or 2 car (309).
Anything else is just showing off (and not much use for small layouts either!).


Rob
Currently 1st stop north of Crewe but formerly of umpteenth stop east of Liverpool St.

 

[Rob R]

I must be getting old, I can remember the first 312's running on the GE Main Line. A considerable advance on what had gone before (mostly).

All gone apart from a few sun bleached hulks in a Coventry field........

R

 

[Intercity126]

Yes, but it will be expensive. Very expensive.

JLTRT helped to attract me into 7mm with a promised 116 unit as one of their early "future" releases. This was eventually sidelined (along with their BP) due to the phenomenal cost to the customer of such a multi-vehicle beast. People are willing to pay £450 for a JLTRT loco kit, but DMU power cars are not any cheaper to manufacture (but sadly are not as highly valued).

Personally I think the 120s are the huge gaping hole in the 4mm market, never mind the 7mm market (I have unbuilt kits in both scales waiting for the fine day when I manage to acquire a large box of free time):.

 

[Osgood]

.........People are willing to pay £450 for a JLTRT loco kit, but DMU power cars are not any cheaper to manufacture (but sadly are not as highly valued)........

A fair point -on the other hand you would be getting what are effectively a couple of coaches in an RTR railcar box- now RTR coaches are not exactly cheap in 7mm, so this may put the cost of such a beast in a more favourable light?

 

[Simon]

Which is another reason why the 121/122 is so attractive, and the Derby lightweight cars too as Rob mentions - lovely looking vehicles.

I'd even fancy a 153, although the modern excrescences that pass for liveries would restrict it to the Regional Railways period. Hopefully some future train operator will throw the hallucinating gnomes out of the corporate image department and paint something into a sensible colour scheme

Simon

 

[mickoo]

Simon,

Ohh forgot about modern stuff, always like the 153 / 156 class must do a walk around before they're all gone LOL, like someone noted above DMUs were hateful things of my youth with their Neanderthal progress and having to change down a gear...or two...at the slightest incline but the view out front was great, most drivers left the 2nd man side curtain open on the trips I had inthem round here. But as time passes they do have a certain charm and are as much a part of the railway landscape as say Mk1s, Deltics, 40.s and point rodding.

Painting, well some of the modern schemes are quite nice I think.

Class 158, like these too! In East Midlands colours

Class 156 in National Express


Class 153 in National Express Anglia, wasn't keen on this in the past but it has clean lines


New Greater Anglia colours, very close to Denmarks DSB so a sure hit for me




Old DSB colours

 

[Ressaldar]

I'm all for going along with the 121/122 & Derby lightweight call, and would also include the 128/129 in there as well. Heljan are bringing out an AC Cars railbus soon - there are pictures on the Tower Models website, so hopefully it is a starter for 10 (and more to come?)

I think that one 'problem' area is producing a suitable bogie that is totally underfloor - the Westdale arrangement is very good, using a double ended Mashima, laid flat -



The Bachamnn bogie unit in the 121 is fine, it hides it in the Guards van area, but it is a big lump and should be under the floor and out of sight.

Lets all cross our fingers and hope that somebody sees the light (through clear interiors) soon.

cheers

Mike

 

[Steph Dale]

Sorry guys, I think the answer is a 'no':

Is there demand, certainly, yes.
Is the demand enough to carry the volume necessary to produce a model at a price the demanders would be prepared to afford? Sadly, no.

Have a look at Heljan's pricing, you'd be looking at c. £600 even at the volumes they currently shift their carriages and locos, and that's for a single car unit in plastic. Start getting realistic about the volume of the sales and you'd be pushing the £1k mark...

Steph

 

[Wagonman]

Sorry guys, I think the answer is a 'no':

Is there demand, certainly, yes.
Is the demand enough to carry the volume necessary to produce a model at a price the demanders would be prepared to afford? Sadly, no.

Have a look at Heljan's pricing, you'd be looking at c. £600 even at the volumes they currently shift their carriages and locos, and that's for a single car unit in plastic. Start getting realistic about the volume of the sales and you'd be pushing the £1k mark...

Steph

This is essentially why I too voted 'no'. I dare say Masterpiece Models or someone could produce a superb RTR model and sell out their entire production run (10-12) at maybe £2k a go, but that is presumably not what was meant. One of the more mainstream makers could produce something at a more affordable price point but would the quality be high enough?


Richard

 

[tomstaf]

I think on the whole there is certainly good cause for a rtr O gauge DMU now. The usual considerations of cost, livery options/universal applicability apply. So the 101 or 108 would seem appropriate. On the point of pricing it would be a gamble but looking at HJ's good loco sales and the Bachmann Brass DMUs provide some evidence.
HJ produces its models in runs of 2000 with a huge mark up, and seems to have little trouble shifting them. I don't know how many Bachmann Brass models were produced, but they were pretty average at best and not truly rtr. The point is that demand lapped up the supply.
So in short there is certainly good cause but it's a double edged sword with risk. Just leaves the qu of whether companies would be prepared to take it.

Cheers

Tom