87th & 3rd (mid 70`s urban US switching layout in P48)

Brian T

Western Thunderer
Well it`s taken a while after a few false start`s ,so without futher a do welcome to my latest Venture;
'87th & 3rd'.

This will a small switching layout that is loosely based on the built up industrial urban area`s of New Jersey & New York,and Operated by the Penn Central railroad...though the track plan is inspired by the very end of the Milwaukee road`s Kingsbury branch in Chicago!... :confused:

It`ll be built to Proto 48 standards,which is the US equivalent of S7 over here and has an even smaller following!.
Now you may ask,why go to the trouble and 'expense'of building to P48,when standard O is acceptable?.Well to put it plainly,and the main reason being is because the stock look`s better with scale wheel set`s and truck`s.
That`s to say when you look at US loco`s & rolling stock you`ll notice that the truck side frames sit inboard and not flush with the body side`s,as is the case with standard O scale.

So at the moment i have a track plan drawn up
track plan.jpg

and the Baseboard and traverser are built, i suppose you could say it`s a big shadow box/diorama.....
P1000358.JPG
I placed a loco & caboose on the board to give a better idea of the size (or lack of it!) of what i`ve got to play with.It also shows how the LED`s light the area too,though i`ll probably add another strip to the valence when it`s put up later on.
And just in case anyones interested, the lighting rigg was built and installed seperatley,something i could`nt of done with layouts past when using the ole floresent tubes!.
P1000355.JPG

Hopefully over the weekend i`ll glue the track plan down on the board,and then make a start on laying the track next week,which by the way will be hand laid with proper profile code 125/100 flat bottom rail from What's New along with component`s from Right-O-Way O Scale Parts and Machining in the US.

I say hopefully,because i`ve got a Gazillion ties to cut before i can start laying anthing!.

But for now....

Thanks for looking,
Brian.
 
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Dog Star

Western Thunderer
There may be at least two or three WTers who might be watching for the use of self-guarding frogs... me for one.
 

Brian T

Western Thunderer
There may be at least two or three WTers who might be watching for the use of self-guarding frogs... me for one.

I`m going to have to let you down gently i think......

I have been looking at somehow converting the exsisting bolted frogs i`ve got,but as yet there`s been no eureka moment.
And as far as i`m aware non are made commercially*,so does that mean i`ll make some....err that`ll be a no,well not for this layout at least or the time being...sorry!.

Brian.

Edit* i forgot there is one avalible from right o way,(AS&S) but it`s for a #7 turnout, where`s i`m using #6`s.
 
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Jordan

Mid-Western Thunderer
There may be at least two or three WTers who might be watching for the use of self-guarding frogs... me for one.
Penn Central ran between 1968 & 1976, so might pre-date self-guarding frogs. I say 'might' as a quick google failed to give me any info on when they were invented.
Looks like my cobbled-up 0W5 versions will remain the only ones on WT for now.
 

Yorkshire Dave

Western Thunderer
`m going to have to let you down gently i think......

I have been looking at somehow converting the exsisting bolted frogs i`ve got,but as yet there`s been no eureka moment.
And as far as i`m aware non are made commercially,so does that mean i`ll make some....err that`ll be a no,well not for this layout at least or the time being...sorry!.

Jay Criswell at Right-O-Way carries the American Switch and Signal code 125 #7 self guarding frog Right-O-Way Online Catalog - American Switch and Signal

I've dealt with Jay when ordering P48 wheels which I have used on stock and diesels - my P48 stuff can be found on my thread here P48 for Cotton Belt: Weaving drives

As a taster this is something I completed in P48 over a year ago 3809 02.jpg


Penn Central ran between 1968 & 1976, so might pre-date self-guarding frogs. I say 'might' as a quick google failed to give me any info on when they were invented.

Photographs of self guarding frogs appeared in the 1921 Maintenance of Way Cyclopedia.

images
 

Brian T

Western Thunderer
Jay Criswell at Right-O-Way carries the American Switch and Signal code 125 #7 self guarding frog Right-O-Way Online Catalog - American Switch and Signal

I've dealt with Jay when ordering P48 wheels which I have used on stock and diesels - my P48 stuff can be found on my thread here P48 for Cotton Belt: Weaving drives

As a taster this is something I completed in P48 over a year ago View attachment 103335


I saw you GP9 at Guildex ,plus a B40 -8 ?.I was mightly impressed with geep and the paint job that you`d given it Dave,i assume that your still building the stock to go with it?.

Thanks for the extra info too, RE jay,i`ve dealt with him a few times since he took over from Lou Cross,infact i`ve got a package to pick from the post office from him.Though i jave to say ,as much as i liked the few chat`s i had with Lou before passed,it`s a lot easier to order from Jay!.


I like your 'frog' Jim,is that milled from a single piece of nickle silver by chance?.


[QUOTE="Jordan, post: 184135, member:
Looks like my cobbled-up 0W5 versions will remain the only ones on WT for now.

Ahh..... so it was yours Jordan,i was trying to remember where i`d seen one that had been built in O....though i can`t find any pictures any more!.


Thanks Guy`s.
 

Jordan

Mid-Western Thunderer
Ah, I'd forgotten about your's, Jim :oops: which look far better than mine! :thumbs:
I shall take my own advice and try to keep up at the back. :rolleyes:
I know Jay at Right-O-Way does a P48 version, clearly there must not be a market for an 0W5 version, & my switches are #6 anyway.
Photos of mine disappeared in the Photobucket Fiasco a while back; I shall have to try & find them & re-post.
Finally, I didn't realise just how far back the self-guarding frog design went - 1921, amazing! Although given how progressive American railroads were (buckeye couplers, etc), I shouldn't be surprised.
 

Brian T

Western Thunderer
Thanks for the link Jim,very impressive work,though milling is a little out of my skill set!.

Jordon,i found a couple of your frog pic`s,which look good. (in your trackwork thread,linked form Jim`s 'S' scale link above)

re-posted here,hope you don`t mind...:)
IMG_1574_zps2u99std8.jpg
IMG_1577_zpshwdt5jqd.jpg

I now have a problem,as all this talk of self guarded frogs is making me think of building some again.
My idea is that the 4 main switches (ex-center running lines) will stay as traditional switches,whilst the 3 that serve the spur`s will be 'SG' switches.
Apart from saving me a shed load of work,i think that the variation will look good?.


Brian.
 

Jordan

Mid-Western Thunderer
My idea is that the 4 main switches (ex-center running lines) will stay as traditional switches,whilst the 3 that serve the spur`s will be 'SG' switches.
Apart from saving me a shed load of work,i think that the variation will look good?.
Do it!!! ;) :thumbs: :D

No probs reposting my pics - glad you like such bodgery!! I still think they are weird things to look at - they look almost 'backwards' compared to a normal frog. :confused:
 

Overseer

Western Thunderer
This may help with self guarded frogs - Switch frog info - The Home Machinist!. The all cast version wouldn't be too difficult to mill.

Good idea to use P48 for a small layout like this. The standard US O gauge wheels look huge in comparison to P48, won't mention the bizarre 3 rail.

Are you sure the sidings are long enough? A 40' boxcar takes up a lot of space.

Not sure why you chose the name but 87th makes me think it should be HO scale. 48th Street Yard seems logical, maybe too logical, so no need to change the name.
 

Brian T

Western Thunderer
This may help with self guarded frogs - Switch frog info - The Home Machinist!. The all cast version wouldn't be too difficult to mill.
.

Thanks for link i`ll have a read latter,and quite apt as i just happen to find a cross milling table for my pillar drill in the shed yesterday,that i`d forgoten about.
Also have some cutters coming and a lump of aluminium so i can have a play too.

Whilst on the subject of the frogs,i came across this diagram from a link on the Proto48group;
img001.jpg
(used with perrmision of Rob Schoerberg)
Not only is there this,but there is a whole load of useful (mainly)PRR & PC stuff, Rob's PRR pagealong with a really interesting article on the Pennsy`s 'rubber tired switchers',The Pennsy's Rubber Tired Switchers weird things to say the least.....any one up for challenge?.

Good idea to use P48 for a small layout like this. The standard US O gauge wheels look huge in comparison to P48, won't mention the bizarre 3 rail.

Are you sure the sidings are long enough? A 40' boxcar takes up a lot of space.

Not sure why you chose the name but 87th makes me think it should be HO scale. 48th Street Yard seems logical, maybe too logical, so no need to change the name.

I`ve been dabbling in P48 for a number of years now, and the wheel/truck profile was one of the main reason`s for it.
As to the size of siding`s,well there bigger than they look:
P1000352.JPG

The bottom left one will take two 50ft cars, the front right, one 40ft on the layout itself & a 50ft beyond with a extended siding on to the traverser
And finally, the upper left is designed for a single 34ft -50ft coal car .

As for the layout name...it just roll`s of the tongue,a bit like 'cellar door' but that`d just be daft for a layout name....would`nt it?....:rolleyes:
 

Brian T

Western Thunderer
Made a start this afternoon on cutting the ties for the plain track;
P1000361.JPG
These are cut from 3/16 sq balsa wood strip`s,not only do they take coloring very well,but you can also distress them due to the varing denseity of the wood,plus they also spike easily,which is a bonus when there`s for spikes per tie!.

Also had another look through the diagrams on the PRR railfan site, http://prr.railfan.net/standards/standards.cgi
and found one for a #6 switch and a standard tie spacing diagram too.

No excuses now for getting things wrong!.
 

JimG

Western Thunderer
Whilst on the subject of the frogs,i came across this diagram from a link on the Proto48group;
View attachment 103468
(used with perrmision of Rob Schoerberg)

That drawing would have been a help when doing my self guarding frogs. I had to eyeball mine from pictures. :)

On seeing it, I was thinking that a good way of producing them would be to do a 3D print as a master then cast from it. It would probably be possible to extrapolate other abgles of crossings from that drawing.

Jim.
 

Brian T

Western Thunderer
That drawing would have been a help when doing my self guarding frogs. I had to eyeball mine from pictures. :)
Jim.

Well you`ve got a good eye then, as i`d never be able to do that with any other reference.

On seeing it, I was thinking that a good way of producing them would be to do a 3D print as a master then cast from it. It would probably be possible to extrapolate other abgles of crossings from that drawing.
Jim.

Would you not be able to make a cast from the ones you already have,because as i understand it learning the in`s and out`s of the program`s to produce a 3d print are quite complicated.
That is of course unless you already know how too?.

Brian.
 
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