Prototype A Day Out in Glasgow

[Rob R]

A bumper selection today. Unfortunately a few seen to be suffering from "Sticky Thumbprint Syndrome" but they are posted here warts and all.
As usual, assumed copyright is with me but WT'ers are free to use for personal use and if you wish to publish/re-post just shout up and I'll try and sort some better scans.

Todays date is the 22nd May 1937 and we will start with a little bit of G+SWR then the Caley at St Rollox and Polmadie before moving onto the NBR at Eastfield.

Please,please,please, if you have anything you can add to my meagre captions dive in and post away.


2P 579 at the Ex G+SWR terminus at St Enochs. The photographer notes that this was taken at 9:45pm.


G+SWR 4-4-0 14517 awaiting scrapping at St Rollox


Wee Puggie 16005 at St Rollox


CR Single 123's tender at St Rollox


CR 123 with what looks like the tender from HR Jones Goods 103 in front.


CR 17317 at Polmadie. The photographer says "note tender" presumable because it is of an unusual type. Cue Caley expert....


CR 16155 at Polmadie. Jim isn't this what you made those lovely wheels for in S?


0-4-4t 1518(X) and A.N. Other at Polmadie. It is times like this that smokebox door plates come into their own...


CR 4-6-2t 15358 at Polmadie


4-6-0 14643. I presume this to be at Polmadie also but the photo unhelpfully just says "Pickersgill 1926"

We shall now take a short break while our photographer decamps across town to Eastfield.

 

[Rob R]

All the following are at Eastfield, also on the 22nd May 1937.


K2 Loch Rannoch. Could someone help with the number please?


The crew of J83 9821 seems to have found some extra bunker capacity.


J88 9130. The coal on the roof seems to be commonplace.


N14 9862. More coal on the cab


C15 9134 and crew pose in the sunshine.


J35 9127.

J37 9403 gets a little tlc.


D33 9856


D34 9035 Glen Gloy

That's all for today. Next time we return to the North East.

Rob

 

[Bob Reid]

Nice one Rob - you've got some shot's from 61B?

Failing that I'd settle on anything from further south - like Craigentinny.....

Loch Rannoch = 4698 (BR 61788)

 

[JimG]

View attachment 83338
CR 17317 at Polmadie. The photographer says "note tender" presumable because it is of an unusual type. Cue Caley expert....

I can't lay my hands on my "bible" on the Jumbos at the moment but that looks like the original tender designed for the class when first designed by Drummond with the underslung springs. Here's a link to a picture of one on an RMWEB thread . I think the next development in Caledonian tenders was the one shown with 123 further up the page with similar axleboxes, but the springs above the boxes.

View attachment 83339
CR 16155 at Polmadie. Jim isn't this what you made those lovely wheels for in S?

Yes - the "Beetlecrushers" The layout my pug was being built for didn't materialise for a variety of reasons but I've got more ideas for another layout where the pug will feature, so the wheels will be put to good use.


Jim.

 

[Rob R]

Nice one Rob - you've got some shot's from 61B?

Failing that I'd settle on anything from further south - like Craigentinny.....

Loch Rannoch = 4698 (BR 61788)

Sorry Bob, that is all from north of the border. I have got albums 1, 3 and 4. I dont recall seeing album 2 but if it ever turns up you might be in luck.
Rob

 

[Rob R]

I can't lay my hands on my "bible" on the Jumbos at the moment but that looks like the original tender designed for the class when first designed by Drummond with the underslung springs. Here's a link to a picture of one on an RMWEB thread . I think the next development in Caledonian tenders was the one shown with 123 further up the page with similar axleboxes, but the springs above the boxes.

Yes - the "Beetlecrushers" The layout my pug was being built for didn't materialise for a variety of reasons but I've got more ideas for another layout where the pug will feature, so the wheels will be put to good use.


Jim.

Thanks Jim.

 

[Martin Shaw]

Rob
Fantastic set of photos, many thanks for posting them. The tender behind 17317 is the early pattern Stroudley type fitted to some of the jumbos, quite long lived, the last one until 1954. Other than the underslung springs they aren't anything out of the ordinary, at least as far as St Rollox were concerned. Of perhaps more interest to me is the photo of 1518?, there is I suppose a 1 in10 chance that it is 15189, the preserved example which I have driven, it was certainly allocated to Polmadie for use on Cathcart cirle trains for part of it's life.

Regards
Martin

 

[Bob Reid]

I have to confess to having driven 15189 as well Martin - but that was way back when the SRPS were still at Springfield Yard (and just around the yard) - most of the time spent on prep. disposal and firing. These are fine photographs thank you for posting them Rob.

 

[Martin Shaw]

Bob
You'll be pleased to here she's nearly back in running order, wheels are in, motion erected and valves set, boiler in frames and the new smokebox is being test fitted at the moment. I'm looking forward to getting out with her later in the year. The only shortcoming is that when the LMS fitted a vacuum ejector, the steam supply was taken from the top of the backhead so that when you open up at Snab Brae and as the boiler tilts uphill if the fireman has overfilled the boiler the vacuum ejector carries water over thereby limiting its use in evacuating air. The good bit is that so long as you've got a thick fire it is forgiving of individual stokers foibles. It's also going to look gorgeous.
Regards
Martin

 

[Bob Reid]

Thanks Martin - the live steam injector (I think on the right-hand side) was problematic if I'm remembering right and sometimes wouldn't lift without copious amounts of cold water and failing that a "gentle" tap on the top nut! Didn't the ejector have a habit when it picked up the boiler water of showering everything in black rain. It'll be good to see it back on the road.

Sorry Rob for the detour!

 

[Rob R]

Det

Thanks Martin - the live steam injector (I think on the right-hand side) was problematic if I'm remembering right and sometimes wouldn't lift without copious amounts of cold water and failing that a "gentle" tap on the top nut! Didn't the ejector have a habit when it picked up the boiler water of showering everything in black rain. It'll be good to see it back on the road.

Sorry Rob for the detour!

Thread hijacks are allowed as long as they are interesting and useful.

That was.

Rob

 

[Dog Star]

Of perhaps more interest to me is the photo of 1518?, there is I suppose a 1 in10 chance that it is 15189, the preserved example ...

I have to confess to having driven 15189 as well Martin - but that was way back when the SRPS were still at Springfield Yard (and just around the yard) - most of the time spent on prep. disposal and firing.

The Scots lads lost their Wee Puggie during the run up to S&D150... they were sure they knew where they had left the loco in Shildon Yard when they went to the pub, they could not find the loco on the following morning. The works shunters had had a move around and the Wee Puggie had been put in a line up of bigger / taller engines... in between rows of other engines. So the lads had to search the wagon works yard until they found their engine.

 

[Steph Dale]

It's interesting to see so much of Stroudley's influence in the Drummond Caley locos, particularly that 0-6-0 with it's very 'Brighton' tender. If it wasn't for the cab roof being conventional I could have very easily mistaken the photos as being of Brighton 'C' class 0-6-0.

Steph

 

[Martin Shaw]

the live steam injector (I think on the right-hand side) was problematic if I'm remembering right and sometimes wouldn't lift without copious amounts of cold water and failing that a "gentle" tap on the top nut! Didn't the ejector have a habit when it picked up the boiler water of showering everything in black rain.

We have found that when the water in the tanks is higher than the injectors they work pretty much as flood injectors and reliably enough, when they are required to lift they can be difficult, but usually it's operator error when they give the nost problems. They won't be hurried. Yes the ejector still showers water. Since you were at Falkirk you may be interested to know that the overhaul of Wemyss 20 is planned to start this year, I once drove it around Springfield yard some 43 years ago.

It's interesting to see so much of Stroudley's influence in the Drummond Caley locos

Steph, if you were to look at the firehole door on 419 it's pure Brighton and of course therefore horrible to use. The loco is McIntosh designed albeit derived from earlier Drummond 0-4-4s.

Martin

 

[Ian@StEnochs]

A bumper selection today. Unfortunately a few seen to be suffering from "Sticky Thumbprint Syndrome" but they are posted here warts and all.
As usual, assumed copyright is with me but WT'ers are free to use for personal use and if you wish to publish/re-post just shout up and I'll try and sort some better scans.

Todays date is the 22nd May 1937 and we will start with a little bit of G+SWR then the Caley at St Rollox and Polmadie before moving onto the NBR at Eastfield.

Please,please,please, if you have anything you can add to my meagre captions dive in and post away.

View attachment 83333
2P 579 at the Ex G+SWR terminus at St Enochs. The photographer notes that this was taken at 9:45pm.

View attachment 83334
G+SWR 4-4-0 14517 awaiting scrapping at St Rollox

View attachment 83335
Wee Puggie 16005 at St Rollox

View attachment 83336
CR Single 123's tender at St Rollox

View attachment 83337
CR 123 with what looks like the tender from HR Jones Goods 103 in front.

View attachment 83338
CR 17317 at Polmadie. The photographer says "note tender" presumable because it is of an unusual type. Cue Caley expert....

View attachment 83339
CR 16155 at Polmadie. Jim isn't this what you made those lovely wheels for in S?

View attachment 83340
0-4-4t 1518(X) and A.N. Other at Polmadie. It is times like this that smokebox door plates come into their own...

View attachment 83341
CR 4-6-2t 15358 at Polmadie

View attachment 83342
4-6-0 14643. I presume this to be at Polmadie also but the photo unhelpfully just says "Pickersgill 1926"

We shall now take a short break while our photographer decamps across town to Eastfield.

Rob,

Another batch of gems.

2P 579 at St Enoch platform 1. The semaphore indicator on the centre of the buffer beam indicates a Largs line working. 579 went new to Ardrossan and was very well received, like all the 2Ps, by the Sou’ West drivers who had been struggling with run down locos and Whitelegg rebuilds which looked good but performed less well than the originals. Some drivers even rated the 2p, or wee black yins, as good as a compound! Certainly they kept them longer than most and it was only the coming of the dmu’s, in the late 50s, that saw them paid off.

14517 was one of Peter Drummond’s superheated 137 class. Good engines but they suffered from a problem with the bogie centre lubrication such that the slide would stick and all of a sudden release! Most disconcerting if running at speed so drivers of a nervous disposition tended to loose time.

14643, Caley 60 class. These engines were not well liked on the G&SW, the drivers called them ‘Greybacks’. Some said they got their nickname because the ash lay along the boiler tops but in the West of Scotland a Greyback is another name for a louse.

Thanks for sharing with us,

Ian.

 

[JimG]

It's interesting to see so much of Stroudley's influence in the Drummond Caley locos, particularly that 0-6-0 with it's very 'Brighton' tender. If it wasn't for the cab roof being conventional I could have very easily mistaken the photos as being of Brighton 'C' class 0-6-0.

Look at his North British Class D designed a few years before the Caledonian Jumbo

Apart from boiler fittings, see any difference?

Drummond's Caledonian designs were further developed by his successors - Smellie (pronounced Smillie), Lambie and Macintosh and Caledonian loco design probably only deviated from the Drummond (and Stroudley) origins with MacIntosh's big 4-6-0s (Cardean, etc.) Pickersgill, who succeeded MacIntosh, went off on his own, not very successful, way.

Jim.

 

[Steph Dale]

Jim,

Interesting stuff, from the angle that photo is taken it's very much like the C and also the Jumbo.

I can only claim ignorance about the Caley Jumbo 0-6-0 in my previous posting, but was aware of Drummond being one of Stroudley's disciples. Thankfully most of the more left-field Stroudley ideas had been filtered out by the time he arrived on the LSWR.

Interesting you mention the 4-6-0s, there was further proof that the Stroudley/Drummond approach didn't scale in the disastrous versions produced for the LSWR, but that is, as they say, another story...

Steph

 

[JimG]

Interesting you mention the 4-6-0s, there was further proof that the Stroudley/Drummond approach didn't scale in the disastrous versions produced for the LSWR, but that is, as they say, another story...

Steph,

On the Caledonian 4-6-0s, in Campbell Cornwell's book on Caledonian locomotives he doesn't actually slate the 4-6-0 designs and indeed includes details of a magnificent run of "Cardean" on Shap where the timings/loads were only beaten by the Coronation Scot in Grouping years. But the chapter heading is "Climax and Decline" - 1904 - 1909 and it deals mainly with the 4-6-0 classes. I think the problem was that a lot of the locomotives were assigned loads which were quite light for their power classification so they spent a lot of their life virtually ticking over. I did read somewhere else that there was a tendency for the operating departments to use the 4-4-0s in preference.

Jim.

 

[Rob R]

Jim, Steph,

The Drummond family likeness also reached Inverness. Apart from the tender and the size of the cab cutout both the above loco's would pass for a "Barney".
Thinks.
Worsley S Scale Jumbo to Barney conversion..... Hmm need a Jumbo drawing from somewhere..

Rob

 

[Martin Shaw]

It wasn't just the LSWR that suffered in the inabilty to scale a 4-4-0 up. The CRA published a book by Donald Peddie on the Pickersgill 956 class which apart from a pretty ignominious attempt at conjugated valve gear also seems to have ignored the advanced thinking emanating from Swindon. It largely appears to be a problem of draughting, short travel valves, deficiencies in superheating, in my opinion the three most important bits of a steam locomotive, which to my mind is mighty starnage considering the pedigree of the Dunalastairs. It's certainly worth a read if not a purchase.

Regards
Martin