A GWR 1878-1925 Wooden Box Van

[Dave Bowden]

Hi All
Another diversion, I bought the Tony Riley wooden box van just to get a feel of the size of a G1 Box Van.
So I've now started to build it alongside my other project 'the V18 Box Van'



I had previously purchased the brake gear set from Neil Butcher just after getting the van kit.
This was for a OK DC1 set but what I now realise is that the axle boxes should be grease types not oil ones!

A set of parts from Peter Korzilius arrived just as we were going away last Saturday, so here what I got for the chassis.

Neil's buffers need drilling out and heads sourced from someone like Peter Korzilius and Peter gives a drawing showing the drill sizes and lengths to drill, very helpful.

Dave

 

[Dave Bowden]

Progress so far with the Tony Riley Wood Box Van.


Headstocks, solebars, and side and end detail added. Peter K's W irons in position but not yet fixed to floor.
I had to recess the solebars by around 1mm on each side for them to fit down to the floor. Neil B's buffers and draw hook added for appearance, the buffers have to be drilled out 1.8mm then recessed by 2.8mm.

This I did on my Sealey pillar drill, but I didn't have a fast enough speed and snapped the drill in the first one I upped the belt speed by one pulley and then managed the remaining three ok.

There are still a lot of plastic strapping still to fit, I shall add curved profile pieces to the roof so it can be removed when and if required.

Dave

 

[Dikitriki]

I'm never entirely sure what I think about using wood as a construction medium in the larger scales.....until I see them painted when they look fine.

I think with a basic wooden (laser cut) body and etched strapping overlays and a metal/plastic card roof, there's no reason why they shouldn't come out very well inddeed. I am yet to experiment with such a kit - BR 1/32 standard van please.

Richard

 

[Dave Bowden]

Hi

I'm never entirely sure what I think about using wood as a construction medium in the larger scales.....until I see them painted when they look fine.

I think with a basic wooden (laser cut) body and etched strapping overlays and a metal/plastic card roof, there's no reason why they shouldn't come out very well in deed. I am yet to experiment with such a kit - BR 1/32 standard van please.

Richard[/QUOTE

Hi Richard

I went to the East Midlands GTG last Friday at Caythorpe and a GWR freight train was run made up of several box vans from Tony Riley, according to John Squire they are fine. What was nice was to have my Hydra D in the rake with another one from the same supplier, so a mixed train and pulling it was a Barrett 47xx which looked excellent.

For me also was a 14xx running on the branch line with two coaches. This was R/C with batteries, kit from Peter Spoerer, looked very nice.

Dave

 

[Dave Bowden]

Hi All

Here's an update on the Tony Riley box van so far, all the strapping has now been added. These are all plastic mouldings.

The W irons were put on just for the photo, the left one will need moving over a bit when it comes to fixing finally.

I now have a replacement buffer for the one I snapped a drill in so I shall sort that out next, then fit the brake gear. I have produced two more roof supports that will go either side of the horizontal piece across the middle, this will give more support for the roof.

Dave

 

[Dave Bowden]

I've made some progress with the box van so here's a couple of photos. I removed the buffers whilst fitting the brake gear, I shall replace the bits of wire holding the keeper plates on when I'm happy with the ride heights. I've also added two more roof supports, and I'm in the process of attaching two to the roof so the roof can be made removable.



Shortly I shall add a coat of primer, with this van the top coat will also be grey all over, nice and simple.

Dave

 

[Dave Bowden]

Hi All

Here's the latest photo of the completed Tony Riley Box Van, transfers will come later. I have changed the axle boxes to correct ones (grease) although they did have oil ones later in their lives.

The roof is not fixed down yet, I'm not sure whether to do it or not, as this van doesn't have a removable chassis I may glue it down permanently.


Dave

 

[Wagonman]

I'm not aware of any of these vans being fitted with DC1 brakes – they were built long before the DC1 came into use. They were fitted with ordinary one-sided 'double' brakes, which the GWR sometimes referred to as 'freighters' brake'. Sorry!

PS: your brake push rods are the wrong way round for DC1 – but correct for 'freighters'...


Richard

 

[Dave Bowden]

I'm not aware of any of these vans being fitted with DC1 brakes – they were built long before the DC1 came into use. They were fitted with ordinary one-sided 'double' brakes, which the GWR sometimes referred to as 'freighters' brake'. Sorry!

PS: your brake push rods are the wrong way round for DC1 – but correct for 'freighters'...


Richard

If you have any photos or drawings from that period I would be pleased to see them, as all my ref. documentation is of a later period.

Dave

 

[Wagonman]

If you have any photos or drawings from that period I would be pleased to see them, as all my ref. documentation is of a later period.

Dave

Hi Dave

I'm at work today but I'll have a look through my photos this evening. Essentially the brake gear should be the same as the undiagrammed 4-plank opens (not the O5s though) with which they were contemporary.

Richard

 

[Wagonman]

Here is a photo of one of the wooden Minks in later life – unfortunately from the non-brake side! As you can (almost) see it has the old style lever brake with the push rods right-over-left – as with your model, though the angle of the upper push-rod is rather steeper. With the DC1 brake, operating the handle caused the swan-neck lever to rise thereby imparting an anti-clockwise motion to the brake shaft, which is why the push odds should be left-over-right.

The van in question has been retro-fitted with oil 'boxes, probably sometime in the 1900s

Hope this is of use...


Richard

 

[unklian]

The wagon in the picture is also fitted with a 'bulb' or J section iron underframe. These were quite common on GWR wagons from the 1880-90's period. I always thought the Great Western stopped building wagons with wooden underframes quite early on too. I agree with wagonman about the DC brakes , I don't remember seeing them on a wooden underframe either.
Of course if anyone has a picture showing otherwise I will be delighted to rescind my comments .
The body of your wagon is very nice indeed, I do like the real wood showing through the paint .

PS Just looked into this a bit more very few wooden underframes after 1885, then iron to start with and then after 1895 steel frames were used mostly. A few later open wagons were built with wooden frames. The DC brakes were first used in 1902.

 

[Dave Bowden]

Replying to both wagonman (Richard) and unklian, I did realise what I've fitted as brake gear may have not been strictly as per prototype but I have used what was available, I did change the axle boxes to try and get them looking more typical with this van.

I do have the latest incarnation on the GW Goods Wagon book (white 529 pages) and there is a reference to a 'new lever brake' on page 52 which refers to Plate 26 and fig 19. It does state that after 1902 many 9ft Opens and Minks were thereafter fitted. Now this might be referring to new builds it doesn't mention retro fitting. There are two photos of these vans on page 363 but the break gear is on the other side. There are also two outline drawings.

At the end of the day it look nice runs very well with my other V18 box van (other topic on here) and I'm now looking into the practicalities of producing the range of Minks. The V18 will now be produced with a wooden body not as originally envisaged using a resin body, this will have a laser cut steel underframe and the remaining parts from various suppliers. The remaining Minks B,C,D,G will also have wooden bodies but not a steel chassis, maybe in the future as there would be a long lead in time.

Dave

 

[Dave Bowden]

There is also a very good picture of an outside framed goods van on page 117 of the latest 'Great Western Way' and this does show the brake side.
This van also appears on the front of 'all about GWR Iron Minks (HMRS) but only from the last panel.

It looks like my vans brakes are the same as this one but with the wrong type of lever, these long levers also had the DC type wrap round on the ends and I believe painted white.

Dave

 

[Wagonman]

There is also a very good picture of an outside framed goods van on page 117 of the latest 'Great Western Way' and this does show the brake side.
This van also appears on the front of 'all about GWR Iron Minks (HMRS) but only from the last panel.

It looks like my vans brakes are the same as this one but with the wrong type of lever, these long levers also had the DC type wrap round on the ends and I believe painted white.

Dave

DC1 brakes definitely fitted to V5 (and some V4) newly built in the early 1900s. I totally forgot to mention the underarm on your O/F Mink. As a general rule the early builds which still had the wooden underframe also had the diagonal braces running the other way. It gets worse... :-(

Richard

 

[Dave Bowden]

Here's an update to the Tony Riley outside covered box van. It now has Walsall Models transfers (bought at Bakewell) fitted and painted over with Klear varnish. Just leaves it to be weathered!



Dave