Prototype A Study in Dereliction

oldravendale

Western Thunderer
I continue the long and arduous process of digitising and then Photoshopping all my railway photos. I'm attaching these, admittedly not very wonderful, photos of Belmont Station, on the LNWR Stanmore Branch from Harrow and Wealdstone for no better reason that they could provide a theme for a branch line layout as a station, conveniently in a cutting and in a suburban location. The entrance at road level was through what could be described as nothing better than a wooden shed, and then across a wooden footbridge to the platform. Furthermore these may be useful as a guide in detail weathering - not that there seems to be any lack of skill in that area from all I've seen on WT. My notes say that these were taken in March 1966, so immediately after track lifting.

img215  Mar 66 - FINAL.jpg img216  Mar 66 - FINAL.jpg img217  Mar 66 - FINAL.jpg

It's a great shame that this branch was ever closed. Personally it provided no service that I could use, living closer to the Bakerloo Line (as was) Stanmore Branch. However, I determined to travel on it at least once and did so after school, probably in 1962. The train was crammed with passengers (no "customers" then!) standing all the way and although I didn't detail the trip I seem to remember that the stock in use at that time was the 4-wheel BUT railcars which were the staple diet of power on the branch. I remember, however, the occasional push pull service - the "Belmont Rattler" to the locals - utilising a Fowler 2-6-2T. At that time the freight service (I think daily) to and from the branch terminus at Stanmore was usually hauled by an 8F 2-8-0. The low bridge created by the branch as it exited Harrow Station lead to London Transport utilising RLH buses for many years. This one was photographed in June 1969 at the terminus of the route at Northwick Park - note the advert on the side - "Victoria Line Opens March 7"!.

London Transport RLH 68.  Northwick Park.  Jun 1969.  FINAL.jpg

At the time I remember Belmont Station the loop had been removed and passenger services to Stanmore had been withdrawn, although the rather beautiful Stanmore Station remained for many years, and was finally turned in to a private dwelling, but not until the developers had gone a good way in to pulling it down before the local council stopped them as it was and probably remains a listed building. At a distance of 55 years it seems very short sighted to have closed the branch at all - even at the time I travelled it was clearly well used, and now with the rapid services in to London from Harrow would have been a boon to the local population. However, I suppose we all have 20:20 hindsight.

Brian
 

SimonT

Western Thunderer
My late father-in-law was one of the engineers on the Victoria line and I have his film drawings of the contract responsibilities. When I find a decent framer I am going to get one of them into a frame and up on my cave wall. The project was one of the first to use computers in the design process and from it sprang the first consultancy for civil engineering computer design which Ian founded with a mate. He also worked on the first Severn Crossing.
Simon
 

oldravendale

Western Thunderer
Fascinating, Simon - and were the Victoria Line trains not the first to have the potential to operate "driverless" and without a guard? I seem to remember some shenanigans where motormen were put in the cabs because the great British public didn't have the confidence to travel on a train with no-one in the cab.

......But then again, I may be wrong.:rolleyes:

B
 

farnetti

Western Thunderer
I have always wondered about the purpose of the Northernmost platform at Harrow and Wealdstone.

Also I don't recognise the bus, never seen driver side windows like that even though I grew up in the area, looks a Regent variant.

Ken
 

Yorkshire Dave

Western Thunderer
......But then again, I may be wrong.:rolleyes:

Errrm no. You're quite correct. The Victoria Line was driverless from day one with the 'driver' in the cab watching the gauges, dials etc and as you say provide comfort for the passengers.

However would I suspect the train the Queen rode on when the line was opened was probably driven.
 

Oz7mm

Western Thunderer
Well that takes me back having lived about a quarter of a mile away until I was 11. I think I remember the AEC railcars on the shuttle to Harrow & Wealdstone and though I recall a steam push pull (?) I can't remember which locos were used.

When I went to school on Holborn I would get the 230 (always an RLH due to low bridges on the route) to Northwick Park for the train to Farringdon.

Thanks for the memories Brian. As I recall from a conversation a while back, you lived just round the corner to me.

John
 

oldravendale

Western Thunderer
I distinctly remember travelling on one of those – must have been route 230 en route to an interview at Harrow College of Art in early 1969. I was particularly struck by the upstairs seating arrangement!
You are quite correct about the upstairs seating on the RLH - in fact that style, with the dropped floor well as a footway on the top deck and seating four across was normal for most provincial buses at the time, until the advent of the Bristol Lodekka. London had standardised on the RT (which was a London Transport design anyway) which was a bit taller and allowed what we now regard as conventional 2 + 2 seating. That dropped floor had some unfortunate consequences for downstairs passengers too, as one had to duck to gain entry to and exit from the seats along the right hand side of the lower deck. My mother in law made the mistake of getting up from her seat without taking care and was almost knocked out as her head met the ceiling!

I'm trying to remember the route of the 230, but I'm not certain it went very close to Harrow College of Art. That was probably on the 140 route, which was our regular route to Harrow for shopping (and for me to get to school in Gayton Road). In fact it was one of the longest routes, from Mill Hill to Heathrow Airport _ handy for getting to Hayes where it was one stop on the train to get to Southall Shed - when I was using it.

Well that takes me back having lived about a quarter of a mile away until I was 11. I think I remember the AEC railcars on the shuttle to Harrow & Wealdstone and though I recall a steam push pull (?) I can't remember which locos were used.

When I went to school on Holborn I would get the 230 (always an RLH due to low bridges on the route) to Northwick Park for the train to Farringdon.

Thanks for the memories Brian. As I recall from a conversation a while back, you lived just round the corner to me.

John
You may well be correct about the railcars on the branch being AEC. I must admit that I thought them to be BUT, but memories fade. I think the branch train was a three car, four wheel unit, but it may have been two car. And yes, I remember you lived within about 5 minutes of me. Small world.

Brian

Edit..... I just checked, and the railcars were definitely three unit four wheelers by BUT. On the Belmont Branch, on the day I travelled on it, we had Motor Second M79745, Motor Brake Second M79742 and Trailer Second M79749. The date must have been a bit earlier than I thought, probably between 1958 and 1960. I don't know whether other railcar sets were used as I must admit to not paying too much attention to diseisals in those days.

B
 
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Oz7mm

Western Thunderer
Brian

The 230 certainly terminated at one end at Northwick Park station. The other end seems to have been Rayners Lane or North Harrow. Our local route was 140 (Burnt Oak - Heathrow) - we probably used the same bus stop.

John
 
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A

Arun

Guest
From my 1958 bus map i.e., pre-the great bus strike, the route of the 230 was:
Rayners Lane Stn - Imperial Dve - North Harrow Stn - Headstone Dve - Christchurch Avenue - turn right into Kenton Lane and then right again into Kenton Road to Kenton Stn and then left turn to Northwick Park Stn.
 

oldravendale

Western Thunderer
Yep. I remember it well...... I had an aunt and uncle at Rayners Lane and visited them and my cousins quite frequently using the 230. The crews, on the whole, were more friendly than any of the other routes. There was a particular conductor who'd demonstrate various tricks - I though he was a magician! My piano teacher's husband was a driver on the route.

Brian
 

Alvis

Active Member
Brian,

I have just come across your posts on Belmont Station as I've been researching this branch for a possible layout based on Stanmore Town.
Your pictures are most evocative showing the end of the station after closure.
I have discovered that the Watford & District MRC have/had a layout of Belmont Station,you probably know that already.
I wonder if you also have any pictures of Stanmore station itself,together with any showing the stock used?
The only couple of books I know of are by Middleton Press and one other,the name of which I cannot recall....another senior moment!

Thanks for any help or ideas you may come up with.

Kind Regards,

Alastair.
 

oldravendale

Western Thunderer
Hello Alastair. There's a small paperback book written by Peter Scott (who happened to live opposite me in Stanmore). I'm away from home at the moment but will try to remember to look it out when I get back. Brian
 

Arun Sharma

Western Thunderer
Fascinating, Simon - and were the Victoria Line trains not the first to have the potential to operate "driverless" and without a guard? I seem to remember some shenanigans where motormen were put in the cabs because the great British public didn't have the confidence to travel on a train with no-one in the cab.

......But then again, I may be wrong.:rolleyes:

B
The first trains using the Automatic Train Operation [ATO] mechanism that would eventually be used on the 1967 Victoria Line tube stock, were in fact modified 1960 stock driving cars + 1927 TS trailers which operated under ATO on the not-very frequent, non-peakhours service on the Woodford to Hainault shuttle on the Central Line prior to the opening of the Victoria Line. Such modified driving cars were easily recognized by having drivers cab side doors which were sealed shut.

Addendum- Some of the 1967 stock were also first tested on the Woodford-Hainault route prior to completion of the first part of the Victoria Line.
 
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LarryG

Western Thunderer
The RLH was a standard Weymann lowbridge product on AEC Regent III chassis, but altered for London transport by not having the outward flare at the bottom of the body. The final one of this type went in 1971.
 
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