A West Midlands Works

Discussion in 'Area 51' started by Scanlon, 29 August 2014.

  1. Bridgnorth01

    Bridgnorth01 Member

    Afternoon Roger,

    Whats the LOB of these? There might well be something in the final stages of finishing to carry these around in.

    Colin H.
  2. Scanlon

    Scanlon Western Thunderer

    Hi Colin,
    Not exactly into modern speak but I take it you want to know the length of box required to transport these locos. Well they measure approximately 420mm long. Allowance for some foam packing would be a good idea.
    daifly likes this.
  3. Scanlon

    Scanlon Western Thunderer

    Into the final stages of the build of 31971. The frames, cylinders etc. have been sprayed using Clostermann black etch primer and then a coat of Halfords Satin Black. The wheels are drying after painting so it can only be valve gear time.

    I enjoy building valve gear, there is the challenge of setting up everything with sufficient clearance and then not locking up your work with solder. I drilled out all pivot points to 0.8mm and used brass rivets for all the "pins". To ensure the various parts do not get soldered together some of the paper used to wrap the etches was used to give clearance aided by a little 4in1 oil.
    Valve gear 1 250520.JPG
    Valve gear 2 250520.JPG

    31791 will be reassembled in the next few days, tested and stored prior to going away for painting. Attention can now turn to 31797 and get that loco finished.
  4. Bridgnorth01

    Bridgnorth01 Member

    Dont worry, I struggle with funny metric things. I have one that is 18" (450mm) internal. Just waiting on a supplier for some hardware and it will be done.
  5. Scanlon

    Scanlon Western Thunderer

    31791 is ready for the paint shop.
    Loco 12 260520.JPG
    The valve gear was installed this morning. At each stage it was tested to check robustness and that nothing was catching. I do this using a wire brush on my Dremel drill onto one driving wheel. Brutal but effective and nothing flew off! The motor and gearbox was then installed and tests conducted on my test track. This revealed one brake block needed slight easing outward from a flange and the leading sandpipes adjusting..

    Now to finish 31797.
  6. Super Claud

    Super Claud Member

    Hi Roger,
    What good looking locos the SR moguls are. At least I think so.
    I have a couple of questions on these builds:
    • How do you secure the top return crank overlay once finally assembled? Do you allow for easy future maintenance removal or something more permanent?
    • What sort of pick-up arrangement(s) have you used for these builds? Do you use plungers, wipers or American? If wipers, is it possible to get a pit level view from below?
    John Johnson likes this.
  7. Scanlon

    Scanlon Western Thunderer

    Hi Roger,
    I agree these SR moguls are good looking machines, others won't agree but hey ho!

    I solder the full depth return crank etch to the 10BA bolt usually using electrical solder. The overlay is then tacked in place with 145 solder and usually can be fairly easily freed off if the need arises.

    As for pick-ups, on my locos I use either wipers on the flanges or plunger pick-ups. However at the request of the customer 31791 has the American system. My mogul from this build will have plungers on the engine and 4 wipers on the tender.

  8. Scanlon

    Scanlon Western Thunderer

    Time to return to my loco and I have finally decided it will be 31807. This has enabled me to incorporate a few differences from the other loco. The Rivers were rebuilt in three lots and inevitably there were subtle differences between works. 31807 was rebuilt at Brighton and has a visible operating rod for the drain cock linkage on the drivers side and a visible rod for operating the sanding gear on the firemans side. Both have been incorporated in my build. In addition 31807 was fitted with a BR Standard Class 4 chimney and courtesy of Dave Sharp a casting was obtained.

    So this is 31807 today,
    Loco 6 270520.JPG

    Loco 5 270520.JPG
    The plan for tomorrow is to fit wiper pick-ups to the tender and then start the massive clean-up. The frames will then be stripped down preparatory for spraying.

    Here is a photo of both locos showing the different chimneys.
    Locos 3 270520.JPG
    oops noticed the pony wheels of 31791 are off the rails!
    3 LINK, Podartist79, 2-Bil and 13 others like this.
  9. John Johnson

    John Johnson Member

    Hello Roger.
    My David Andrews Stanier 2-6-4T is getting well on towards completion now and its time to go back to the frames and complete the valve gear etc.
    Your post about using rivets for the valve gear took my interest and from your photos they look very neat. Am I correct in thinking that your rivets are 1/32" x 1/14" of the sort supplied by Items Mail Order? Do you pein them over or solder from the back, cut off and file.?

    During my build I have followed your build of the 4P along with PAD's and have been very grateful for the tips. Its always good to know what others have done if there is trouble ahead so if my expansion link catches the valance I know what to do!

    Lovely job on the two Southern Moguls.


    John J
  10. Scanlon

    Scanlon Western Thunderer

    Hi John,
    Thanks for your comment on the mogul build, they are going together very well and I'm just building the valve gear for the second loco. I use brass rivets supplied by Ragstone, they are 0.75x7mm, sorry don't know the imperial measurements. I solder the rivets then cut them short and finally dress them with a file. Hope that is of some help.
    3 LINK and Deano747 like this.
  11. John Johnson

    John Johnson Member

    Hello Roger.

    Thanks for the info. I have some from Items so I'll measure them in the morning. If they are too big, I'll try Ragstone. Looking forward to seeing your moguls with the valvee gear on. 31807 suits the tall chimney!

  12. Scanlon

    Scanlon Western Thunderer

    Both the rebuilt Rivers are now almost finished. Today 31807 had the valve gear installed and tested. I was a little too miserly with the solder and had to readdress a few of the pins. The loco was first tested as frames only on DC and with everything running fine a Zimo chip was installed and then tested on DCC. The body was then installed and attached to the tender.

    I was a little worried there could be a problem with the wheels touching the insides of the splashers as the clearances are very tight. Fortunately this proved unfounded although a minor issue arose with the fallplate which was quickly dealt with.
    Loco 9 300520.JPG
    The outstanding work on both locos is to build up the couplings, complete the cab detailing and to replace the 10BA buts on the rear axle with Laurie Griffin crankpin nuts.
    Loco 10 300520.JPG
    The next time these locos will appear should be when they are painted and lined.

    Next on the bench is a Ragstone BR1B tender for a client and my 02.
    P A D, 3 LINK, Rob Pulham and 11 others like this.
  13. Scanlon

    Scanlon Western Thunderer

    The BR1C,not BR1B as stated in the previous post is taking shape.
    050620 (1).JPG A number of castings were missing but a quick phone call was made to Andy Beaton and the parts should be in the post.

    It's Monday and as the tender cannot be completed my attention has turned to building a Connoisseur 02 0-4-4t. This is my first Connoisseur kit and I am very impressed with the standard of etches and the build instructions. The model will be of 30199 for my own collection and by this afternoon I had got this far.
    Cab parts 080620.JPG
    The running plate is a mixture of brass and nickel silver parts. The bulk of the cab parts have been prepared ready for assembly tomorrow. There are a number of cabinets still to be built up, it's going to get quite crowded in there.
  14. Scanlon

    Scanlon Western Thunderer

    I am faithfully following Jim's build instructions and they are proving to be easy to follow and makes the build very straightforward. The kit of parts shown in the previous photo was added to by building up two cabinets and the two cab tanks that go inside the cab, a start was them made on building everything up. Using a set square one side was set up, from this the cab front and then the other cabside /tank etch was added.
    Cab 1 090620.JPG
    The cab floor was then inserted. To ensure it would stay in place properly I put solder on each of the "feet" that give the floor the height required, then played the gas flame over the whole floor area to get the solder to trickle down onto the main etch floor. Installing the pair of cab tanks then ensured the floor was firmly in place.
    Cab 2 090620.JPG
    Construction of the rest of the cab and bunker then followed and the gaps between the tank extensions and sides filled.
    Tanks 1 090620.JPG
    A start has been made on building the boiler and this has been the simplest boiler I have ever constructed. Jim McGeowen rolls the boiler and in the case of my model required no further work other than to file off the pips and solder on the inside formers and the boilerbands. The latter are full/half etched so that the full depth etch locates exactly into a groove on the boiler etch. Brilliant! Chunky whitemetal weights are provided and are to be inserted in the boiler and smokebox. The boiler weight will require attention to get it to fit inside!
    Boiler 1 090620.JPG
    and in the tanks,
    Loco 2 090620.JPG
    Not bad for two days work.
  15. Super Claud

    Super Claud Member

    Thank you for the information Roger.
    Please show these two off when they are resplendent in black.
  16. Scanlon

    Scanlon Western Thunderer

    Not too much to show for a day's work. The smokebox and the two sandboxes were built up and the latter detailed.
    Smokebox 1 100620.jpg
    Oops, just noticed the splasher beading needs a bit of attention!

    With this work completed the boiler was united with the smokebox. I was doubtful about the proposed method of assembly but in the end it worked fine. A lot more solder was used than I had anticipated, much of which had to be swept away afterwards with the aid of a wire brush.
    Bolier 2 100620.JPG
    The boiler is now on the frames but has yet to be soldered in position, the instructions recommend leaving the boiler loose until the frames have been built.
    Loco 3 100620.JPG
    Accordingly a start has been made on the frames and the coupling rods have been built up. The kit is generous with etches as there are three types of coupling rods for these locos and etches are provided for each example. More developments tomorrow.
    P A D, 3 LINK, John Johnson and 11 others like this.
  17. Scanlon

    Scanlon Western Thunderer

    It has been some time since I last posted about the build of the O2 tank. The frames were very quickly constructed and then detailed following Jims instructions. This picture shows the dummy slidebars etc. in place.
    and the completed frames
    Work on the engine body then proceeded apace and presented very few problem. The boiler is located on three "wings" on the inside of each tank. At first I could not get one side to sit comfortably on these wings but a small amount of filing overcame the interference and the boiler sat down as intended. Since then the final etches have been put in place and a start made on detailing.

    With a few exceptions all the detailing castings are in whitemetal and are of an excellent quality. They require the minimum of cleaning up but as a personal choice a few parts are being replaced with lost wax castings. I find whitemetal vacuum pipes and steam heat pipes are not robust enough and also quite vulnerable so these along with replacement tank filler tops and the small smokebox lubricator are being acquired from Laurie Griffin. Surprisingly the smokebox lubricator is not included in the kit, IOW locos did not have them but the mainland engines retained them to the last. Cast screw couplings and cast lamp irons have also been used.
    Loco 9 280620.JPG
    I was a little intimidated by the cab roof. Looking at the instructions I could not visualise in my own mind how Jim had built it. However after laminating the outer and inner roof sections together and rolling them to shape I decided to follow the photos in the instructions and they worked a treat. There are two locating strips included in the build but they are slightly too short and the roof had a tendency to lean to one side or the other. To overcome this four wings have been added from scrap etch.
    Cab Roof 290620.JPG
    The little loco is now sidelined until the replacement castings arrive but this is the state of play today.
    Buffers etc. will only be installed once the vacuum and steam heat pipes have been soldered in place.
    Crispinhj1, Wagonman, P A D and 14 others like this.
  18. Scanlon

    Scanlon Western Thunderer

    A number of years ago I built the Transport Age kit of the BR Standard 3 2-6-0; least said I think. The loco never ran properly and the owner relegated it to the display case. Then he had the good fortune to find an unbuilt DJB 77XXX kit and this is my new project.

    Normally I would start by building the tender but on this occasion the engine frames have taken precedence. The DJB build instructions and diagrams are not the best but given their age they were satisfactory. The diagram referred to various etches by letter but the actual etches were devoid of any identification. Most are obvious but some of the smaller frame stretchers required a search and rescue approach!

    One aspect of these kits I dislike is that the front bufferbeam and apron of the loco form part of the frame. Having built a number of the DJB BR Standard kits I have devolved my own way to overcome this. Firstly the mainframe is cut just behind the leading edge of the cylinder
    Frames 3 050613.JPG
    An additional frame stretcher is then introduced so the bufferbeam and frame extension has a rigid point to be bolted to. This photo shows the frames built up, the gap at the front of the frames is covered by the cylinder etch
    Frames 2 010720.JPG
    Next will be to build the cylinders and slidebars up and install the driving wheels and maybe build the pony truck.
  19. Scanlon

    Scanlon Western Thunderer

    So the build of the little O2 has almost come to an end. Castings from Laurie Griffin arrived in the post this morning. The bufferbeams have been detailed and the tiny lubricator on the smokebox added.
    Bufferbeam 030720.JPG
    Lubricator 030720.jpg
    These photos show a considerable amount of cleaning up still has to be done. Unfortunately the replacement tank filler lids were too high and domed and are not suitable for the BR period I model.
    Loco 15 030720.JPG
    Loco 16 030720.JPG
    When the weather improves the frames will be stripped down and sprayed. Following that motor, gearbox and pick-ups will be installed on all wheels.
    Wagonman, Rob Pulham, P A D and 8 others like this.
  20. Scanlon

    Scanlon Western Thunderer

    Work on the 77XXX is progressing although not as fast as I would have liked. This is not surprising given the kit is very old and hand drawn, stone age when compared with the latest outputs. That said I did expect the cylinders and slidebars to allow the side rods to pass behind the slidebars. Wrong! The only way to achieve a decent frame without any interference was to space out the cylinders by about 1mm. Fortunately the overall width is almost to scale!
    Cab-frames 1 080720 (2).JPG
    Having fought with the cylinders I was ready for the next fight, namely the cab. Thankfully this built up quite easily although a lot of solder was required to fill gaps above the front windows. I had thought to insert wire to fill some of the gap but I could not keep it in position. There is no roof detail other than the vent so the guttering was formed of inverted T brass bar with one edge filed off to leave an L, needs must in these days of lockdown. After cleaning up a very good representation of the cab has been achieved.
    Cab 2 140720.JPG
    The running plates have now been formed up and soldered to the cab and the bufferbeam. To ensure everything was square the bufferbeam assembly was bolted to the frames and the cab firmly clamped at the back end. Adding the front "apron" revealed that one of the frame stretchers was completely in the wrong position. Fortunately it was a separate etch and using the gas torch was quickly extracted and relocated. To ensure the front apron was at the same angle as the running plate small pieces of scrap etch were soldered to the underside of the running plate.
    Parts 140720 (1).JPG A start has been made on the boiler and smokebox as shown above.

    As mentioned earlier normally I would start a build with the tender. Looking at the etches I was perplexed as to how to create the various curves and angles. The etches being very thick brass, completely flat and devoid of any half etching or fold lines. So I put it aside for the moment.
    Tender body etches (1).JPG I have built two other BR2 tenders from DJB and the sides came preformed only requiring minor work to make everything match up and then rivet before soldering. I sought advice as to how to proceed and the Bucks Hill group offered useful advice, including throw it away but one brave "member" offered to form the sides for me. Never turn down a volunteer, but when he got the etches home even he suggested that after separating the main etch into three parts he would have very great difficulty to hold the etch to form the very tight bottom curves.

    While this was ongoing a discussion with my customer revealed while at the Bristol show a few years ago he had acquired a near complete BR2 tender! Given the issues with the original etches he suggested I use the donor tender which turns out to be a Transport Age product. Inspection revealed it was fairly well built but covered in a red oxide colour paint, here is the before look
    Tender 1 120720.JPG
    and after the early bath look.
    Tender 4 120720.JPG
    The major components of the tender are half etched and were very crisp. The whitemetal fittings were poor compared with the DJB products and a lot of solder had to be removed. In addition the coal space was missing and the upper sides of the bunker were very flimsy. Thankfully it was built square and when placed against the DJB frames and cab the heights matched!
    Tender 9 140720.jpg
    Heaven knows what solder the original builder used but it has taken a lot of work to get the excess off and this is still work in progress. The DJB coal space inner etch has been slightly modified to fit into the donor tender and the bunker sides have been strengthened by soldering 0.3 beading around the upper edges. The axlebox castings were replaced and the buffers and other detailing changed for lost wax castings.
    Tender 6 140720.JPG
    The inner frames left a lot to be desired and were put on the chassis jig to be squared up. They had to strengthen up especially around the middle axle as there was no frame stretcher at this point. The frames as built flexed badly and was causing the middle axle to snag. Rudimentary brake gear is in place but only on 4 wheels so I shall trawl through my spares box to hopefully find a suitable set of hangers and stretchers.
    Tender 5 140720.JPG
    As you can see there is a lot of cleaning to do and some castings still to fit. Needless to say the volunteer is hugely relived the donor tender has proved to be suitable.