4mm An EM Workbench - Scammell MU moving on.

Discussion in 'Area 51' started by AJC, 1 October 2012.

  1. AJC

    AJC Western Thunderer

    The figures Dave? Off the front of the current BRM - they're scans of the editorial team which have come out a bit big.

    I should paint them up.

    Anyway, more Sentinel, following a day off - it's the end of the leave year and, what with one thing and another, I find myself at home on a weekday - and that obviously means wagons. And a bit of Sentinel work, cycling and some work on the house.

    I shouldn't really be starting new projects, but here we are. A freebie from another the January Railway Modeller (also gone to recycling after a fairly cursory glance) in the form of a Ratio GW Mink which I thought should be better value than it turned out to be - my stash of spare underframes failed to yield anything suitable! So Parkside by PECO to the rescue! Some of these vans acquired BR-type axleguards in later life, perhaps when they were retro-fitted with vac' brakes? This one, for example:

    GWR Vans - includes specialist designs

    Unusually for such retro-fits, a reasonable number - this one for instance - acquired upright vac' brake stands: GWR Vans - includes specialist designs which I presume were second hand.


    Note the platefront axleboxes (MJT) and the secondhand wheels from a mate whose current modelling has a P4 focus. Since I got to the Chiltern MRS show in Stevenage last weekend, it's joined on the bench by this PO open from Cambrian. This will be finished as one of ICI's extensive lime fleet, complete with sheet rail fittings (like these: ICI Buxton (Tunstead, etc) Railways in the 1960s - UK Standard Gauge Industrial Modelling). Some additional detailing to go on here:


    And finally, for now, the Sentinel which has gained some handrails (0.3mm wire, N gauge handrail knobs) and had a hole cut in the floor - the boiler unit will be attached to a sub floor and bolted directly to the chassis. Why? Because with this type of roof, I think it's more important that it fits properly and stays in one piece. This idea is pinched from Mike Edge's designs for industrials - the only downside is that painting the inside of the cab will be a bit harder.


    Another day off tomorrow, let's see what happens.

  2. adrian

    adrian Flying Squad

    That is looking rather nice - the louvred panels are particularly effective.
    AJC likes this.
  3. AJC

    AJC Western Thunderer

    I agree, the artwork is really good - and the larger pattern of louvres is also on the artwork; quite a contrast to the relatively recent 7mm version I saw on here. So good is the artwork, in fact, the build has been pain free, except in a couple of places where Robert tried to get a bit clever (we'll come to that shortly). I've just spent the last 40 minutes or so installing the rest of the handrails. Readers, I had enough handrail knobs. Hurrah!

  4. adrian

    adrian Flying Squad

    Don't get me started. :rant: I would love a good quality post war 100hp Sentinel in 7mm scale but we don't do wish lists on WT so I have to bite my tongue when you post photos like this. :'( Do you think it is good enough to be scaled up to 7mm? I'd be quite happy with just a set of etchings - the castings I can make myself? I can but ask!
  5. AJC

    AJC Western Thunderer

    I think so, yes. I have a couple of minor quibbles about the cab roof (I'll document these when the sun comes up and I can attempt a picture), but the precision of fit is otherwise very good so it shouldn't be too problematic to shoot up a scale. I don't know whether Robert has thought about this but it'd certainly be worth asking - I think he's done the standard gauge Hudson tippers in the larger scale (I can't be certain as he's taking a couple of months off from RT Models while he drives rail replacement bus services - using his monstrous ex-Hong Kong 100-seater Leyland double decker [seen here under previous ownership] - at present so his website is offline).

    Obviously you'd have to rig up a Delrin chain drive in the larger scale, but that's not a hardship and is more prototypical than the geartrain used here! I'd quite like one in the larger scale myself...

  6. Overseer

    Overseer Western Thunderer

    The Hudson tippers are available in 7mm. I have one nearly finished, the hold up being the springs provided on the etch are nothing like the real thing. The prototype have/had RCH type axleboxes with an extra hole through the front for the axle to go right through and normal sized wagon springs. I modified some whitemetal axleboxes but think some machined brass one will be better. It is probably not obvious in 4mm but in 7mm it is.

    I am waiting for some of RT Models 7mm Sentinel louvre etches to turn up (ordered just before the shut down) so I can get on with building the Altrincham Gasworks Sentinel (Works no. 9375 of 1947, the loco following Road Reconstruction Co. no. 1). I have had the Meteor Models kit for a few years (Invertrain have them in stock) - the etches are far from good so I am planning to scratch build most of the body but the brass and whitemetal castings are really good, almost worth the cost of the kit. The resin 'bonnet' is a good casting but the radiused edges are a bit too large radius.
    AJC likes this.
  7. AJC

    AJC Western Thunderer

    Thank you for that, Fraser - you're quite right, although the springs are, at best, representational. It's far from obvious in 4mm, especially if you are using three-hole discs, but in 7mm, I would certainly be looking at replacement.

    By the by, I have a couple of these tippers to make and one will get a new chassis with wheel brakes when the time comes. I'm able to do this because @Dave very usefully shared the relevant diagram from the Hudson catalogue here: 7mm - Speed modelling - Hudson V-tipper

    Last edited: 18 January 2019
    Lyndhurstman likes this.
  8. AJC

    AJC Western Thunderer

    This is the current state of play with Cambrian's rendition of ICI's Buxton (well, Tunstead, really) Lime open built by Gloucester RCW back in the '30s. This is one of those vehicles that I'm going to struggle to justify as and when my bit of Somerset branch lime gets built, but liming of fields was certainly common enough and I daresay with the demise of small lime kilns that imports from Derbyshire were not unknown.

    Anyhow, modifications of the kit are limited - minor details only - with the rather crude removable sheet rails which will sit atop the tarp neatly folded on the floor and new buffers. I've run out of lever guides, unfortunately, but then I don't yet have the transfers (on order from POWsides) either so no matter.



    Of course, if it does eventually appear on a branchline, I'll have to build another, loaded, vehicle to go the other way. Still, that won't need so much detailing...

  9. AJC

    AJC Western Thunderer

    So it transpires that I did have some lever guides in the box after all (from the Scalefour Society, courtesy of the laptop of 'CraigWelsh'), which were every bit as irritating as I'd remembered, mostly because they're made from Nickel Silver and are dead scale. They're absolutely fine one they're soldered up, but extremely fragile and brittle halfway through the assembly process. Never mind, they're on! The accompanying levers are spares from a Rumney Models detailing etch (for Bachmann's anchor-mounted tank).


    The overhead view shows the very simple sheet rail. This seems to have been a feature common to small specialist mineral opens (Murgatroyds had a fleet of something similar and I'm sure I've seen pictures of others, including other bits of ICI). They were made from wood and fitted into slots built up on the ends. When not in use they must have remained with the wagon so I've modelled it from a bit of Evergreen strip.


    It turns out that I really am out of grey primer though. No matter, it is, at least, complete!

    Last edited: 20 January 2019
  10. AJC

    AJC Western Thunderer

    Back to the Sentinel, and above the footplate, it's more or less complete, I've even added the first casting! Where the kit is lacking, slightly, is in the treatment of the sandboxes (though both types are supplied) and their operating linkages which are a bit more complicated than a length of 0.45mm wire could legitimately be said to represent:


    So I've had to drill a few holes and the results will require a few deep breaths and plenty of peering at photos like these from Tennant's Foundry at Whiflet:



    Last edited: 27 January 2019
  11. AJC

    AJC Western Thunderer

    And so soon afterwards, part 5. As well as the linkages, which I made up a bit like the real thing, from individual lengths of wire flattened at the ends, though I used pliers rather than forging, and soldered to spigots, also in 0.45 mm brass wire. At the back end, the pipework behind the cab step is concocted from more soft brass wire and a casting left over from the CSP Models-based 200HP machine which must be intended to represent the same thing (a valve of some sort) since it looks spot on.


    That leaves only the lamp irons and a brake standard before I can fit the castings and line the inside with lead...

    Last edited: 27 January 2019
  12. AJC

    AJC Western Thunderer

    And so we're closing in on the finish; I think I've finally managed to get all the soldering complete (I'm going to glue the castings on, I'm afraid). Lots of fiddly details at this stage - lamp irons, adapted from the very ingenious (and exceptionally useful) Masokits etch. I say adapted because the real thing had something rather unusual on the back:

    S0924 Roads Reconstruction S9374/47 4WTG No.1 @ Vallis Vale Quarry, Frome

    I think these may have been an in service modification; the Roads Reconstruction locos always seem to have had lamp irons hung at the bottom of the cab - these 'double' irons presumably allowed this while giving the opportunities to hang lamps outside them.


    The idea behind the Masokits etches are that by doubling up two thin layers the result is stronger than a single thickness item. It's a fiddle, but it works. What I could - and arguably should - have done was to get some shim and fold it back on self in cunning ways to achieve this result. As it was, I've used two lamp irons to create each of these, holding my breath to get there. The results are strong, reasonably subtle and add to the character of the model - they look big because the loco itself is tiny.

    The same phenomenon is evident with the whistle:


    This is big. It's big on the real thing, seemingly out of proportion to the loco, but real Sentinels are small, relatively quiet and sometimes worked in noisy, built up environments so I guess it's a safety measure. [EDIT - on reflection, I think it's actually TOO big, and the wrong way round for the loco I'm modelling. Mark 2 is now in place!].

    [​IMG]Whittingham Hospital Railway by robmcrorie, on Flickr

    This has been knocked up from tube and a bit of 0.45mm wire with the ends rounded off in the mini drill serving as a lathe. From above this looks massive, from in front it looks about right, I think:


    Last edited: 4 February 2019
  13. AJC

    AJC Western Thunderer

    Ready for the paint shop (or it will be once I have found an appropriate shade of green):




    The lorry type head lamp was a feature of number 3 in the Hapsford/Vallis Vale fleet and so I've added it here. The pointwork will be part of its eventual home but don't hold your breath...

  14. AJC

    AJC Western Thunderer

    You all know the old saw, 'Measure twice, cut once'? It also applies to handrails. All those very fine and neatly applied handrails on the Sentinel's bonnet (and the set on the cabside, come to that), don't appear on my prototype.

    Twit that I am I spotted this as I picked them out in black. Bother said I, and went to work to stew on it. My conclusion, reached somewhere around Sevenoaks as the sun set, was that I had some cellulose thinners at home and it's been deployed along with a certain amount of muttering and the offending bits of wire have been removed and the holes made good. I'll have another go at priming it in the morning, suitably chastened. I'll get things right first go some day, but not today. Ho hum.

    Lyndhurstman likes this.
  15. Martin Shaw

    Martin Shaw Western Thunderer

    I realise this is a bit late in the day but three of the ex Tennant Sentinels are at Bo'ness, and at least one of them is in one piece so I could get some pics if this helps.
    Dog Star and AJC like this.
  16. AJC

    AJC Western Thunderer

    Hello Martin,

    I'd be interested to see them, but don't put yourself out - the model is complete if not as close to 'finished' as it was this morning! The Tennant locos are all quite late production and differ in many details, though mechanically they were identical.

  17. Martin Shaw

    Martin Shaw Western Thunderer

    I'm planning a trip out next week for other matters, absolutely no problem in taking the camera.
    Dog Star likes this.
  18. AJC

    AJC Western Thunderer


    Then please do!

    Thank you.

  19. AJC

    AJC Western Thunderer

    Right. That's better. Shorn of handrails and consequently more sleek of line, it's been reprimed and we're on coat one of green. I don't have an airbrush so I use lots of thin coats of colour to build up the density. It will look less sickly, quite soon, promise.


  20. Threadmark: Early LMS Brake - M802

    AJC Western Thunderer

    While the Sentinel is shuffling back along the correct path, I've made a start on something new, though it is (yet another) brake van. This one is an early LMS vehicle, heavily inspired by Midland thinking and derived from a Parkside kit. This will be modelled as M802, pictured at York in 1963:

    19/10/1963 - York.

    As you can see, it's piped rather than vacuum-braked and unlike the 'pure' Midland vehicles built by the LMS has a ducket and ends with the sheeting on the inside of the framework, a design feature probably discontinued owing to water ingress at a guess. The Parkside kit of course is for the slightly later dia. 1657: LMS Brake Vans ZTO ZSO ZFQ RHQ RFQ | DM284824 diag 1657) but the main modification needed is in reversing the ends so I started there.


    As supplied - much as I remember from when the kit was released there's an amount of flash around the apertures and noticeable wood graining which is perhaps a touch overdone.


    Step 1 was to cut out the panels and, because I can and because the prototype pictures show it, I've decided to have the door open at one end (Parkside have the catch on the wrong side - real LMS vans seem always to have had left-hand hinged doors but no matter).


    The new sheeting is scribed 20 thou'. For scribing I use the tip of a scalpel blade and a small engineer's square. Note that I cut the strip slightly over height and trimmed it down before fitting.


    When assembled the basic carcass looks like this:



    I've added a bit of 60 thou' amidships to prevent bowing and am now thinking about interior detail. What I did last time was to build that in situ which makes it a swine to paint. This time, I'm going to make and paint the bits separately and fit them afterwards; they'll be every bit as invisible as on the first van but it will all be much neater!


    EDIT - Captain Cock-Up has visited for a second time this week! I hadn't noticed that the veranda screen on these earlier vans is lower in height than on the later ones. Now rectified. :headbang:
    Last edited: 23 February 2019