BR W1 Class 60700 - Nick Dunhill's Workbench

Discussion in 'Area 51' started by Nick Dunhill, 4 April 2019.

  1. Nick Dunhill

    Nick Dunhill Western Thunderer

    Yep Mick is correct, stupidly/unwittingly I built the wrong tenders. The LNER corridor and non-corridor tenders moved around a fair bit between A4s A3s etc to suit the work they were doing. E.g. Kings X to Edinburgh express locos had corridor tenders for crew changes on the move, Kings X to Doncaster non-corridor tenders were fine. The W1 was allocated to Donny and did the same trains each day in the 50s. Morning; Donny to Kings X, afternoon; Kings X back to Doncaster, so it only needed a non-corridor tender. Its original corridor tender, when it was the Hush-Hush, and then rebuilt as the W1 up until the early 40s, was re-allocated to Union of South Africa and still exists on the preserved loco. (Please correct me if this is inaccurate!)

    At the time when I first started on this project (2015ish) Martin Finney stuff was out of production so I built Dave Andrews non-corridor tenders ready to go when I got loco parts. Now there's nothing wrong with the DA tender at all, in fact its an excellent kit and I was able to build some highly detailed tenders from them. The thing I overlooked was that DA designed the tender to be paired up with his A3 kit (he never did an A4.) Turns out that A4s have a much taller and wider cab than an A3, and although these tenders were built to be paired up with A4s, when passed down from A4 to A3s they had to be modified. The front was reduced in height to suit the cab height of an A3 and the sides were furled in at the front to suit the narrower cab. Dave's kit reflects this so the tenders I built were too short at the front (by a mile) and straight-sided to suit an A4 (or W1.) So they were a bit of a mongrel, not suitable for either an A3, A4 or the W1. So I couldn't save/sell them as A3 tenders and start again, and Richard and the rest of the Finney7 co-op lot took pity on me and offered to sell me some etches to build new bodies on the DA chassis.

    All will be well by this time next week when they're at Warren H's house for paint.
     
  2. Nick Dunhill

    Nick Dunhill Western Thunderer

    ....well the Finney7 tender body footprint was identical to the David Andrews one. Some adjustments of the tags on the body side and rear and they located in slots in the DA footplate. So re building the tender was a bit of a doddle, just follow the instructions and bam!, 2 new tenders with the correct height front.


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    I transplanted all the detail parts from the DA to the F7 tender. Handrails, lamp irons, all the controls off the tender front, and added some wooden veneer to the platform.


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  3. Nick Dunhill

    Nick Dunhill Western Thunderer

    The F7 tender body certainly has more details than the DA one, and when the two tender rear panels are placed together the difference in profile becomes very apparent.


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    All that was left to do was the fabrication of a draw bar and a final check that it went round a 6' rad curve. It did and without any chopping. This is the first time I have done a large 7mm kit and not had to reach for a slitting disc to get it to traverse a 6' curve. Well done to F7 for an amazing kit. It went together very well, with perfect fitting etches. The body did need a bit of very minor surgery to make it fit, but it was achieved very easily.


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    Finally I made a paper template for the rubber cover between roof and tender fairing, and when satisfied cut one from thin rubbery material.


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    So there we have it two W1s off to paint.


    I heard an interesting story surrounding the fitment of the rubber cover on A4s and the W1. Apparently the wind rush over the uncovered cab roof and tender fairing created a venturi effect in the cab resulting in low pressure and all kinds of swirling dust and ash on the footplate, making work very difficult for the crew. The rubber cover solved the problem.


    Incidentally I have a set of etches left over for the F7 footplate and chassis available to anyone who may find it useful. Etches only, no castings. I could probably sort out a copy of the instructions too. Offers?


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    Next we assemble the NGG16, remember that?..........
     
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  4. JimG

    JimG Western Thunderer

    Like the Avo - haven't used one for years. :):)

    Jim.
     
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  5. mickoo

    mickoo Western Thunderer

    What the &*%$ is that in the tender :eek: looks like old Humbrol paint you're trying to get rid off or remnants of the Exxon Valdez scrapped off the beech :p

    The new sides make all the difference, lines up where it should and matches the cab just so :thumbs:

    The 6' radius was one of the primary objectives with as little compromise as possible, in the end there was virtually no changes required to the artwork to allow a 6' curve. The biggest potential was the very rear bissel truck, but O fine saved the day, the slightly narrower wheels for O fine allowed a little more swing at the rear so we didn't have to widen the frames at all. Scale7 guys might struggle mind, but they're an adaptive bunch of guys ;)
     
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  6. P A D

    P A D Western Thunderer

    Wasn't the W1 an oil burner and that crap in the tender is the fuel? :D

    Will it go around the curves with the rubber cover on? The instructions for the tender are on the F7 website.
     
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  7. Nick Dunhill

    Nick Dunhill Western Thunderer

    I bought some Gorilla brand epoxy because it was cheap. It stinks and goes off in mins and is lumpy. I made a proper mess with it but all will be hidden by coal.
     
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  8. mickoo

    mickoo Western Thunderer

    :D I used an epoxy back in the day on a 4mm WM kit, it didn't survive and the bin got feed well as a consequence!
     
  9. warren haywood

    warren haywood Western Thunderer

    I’m about to start painting Nicks W1’s but unfortunately I’m struggling to find a decent picture of the front end especially the positioning of the swoosh.
    Anybody got a decent one?:)
    Cheers
     
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  10. mickoo

    mickoo Western Thunderer

    Couple of crops from commercial images shown for educational purposes.
    Image2.jpg Image3.jpg
     
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  11. Richard Spoors

    Richard Spoors Western Thunderer

    Yeadon's Register Vol. 2 (A4 and W1) has a scaled down reproduction of the LNER painting diagram for the A4 class. No reason to think the W1 front lining curve would be different and that BR followed LNER practice in lining position.

    Cheers

    Richard
     
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  12. warren haywood

    warren haywood Western Thunderer

    Richard,
    I want to get it as close as possible, if you look closer at the A4 swooshes they vary quite a bit.
    I’ve got a few pictures that I think I can work from.
     
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  13. Yorkshire Dave

    Yorkshire Dave Western Thunderer

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  14. warren haywood

    warren haywood Western Thunderer

    Cheers Dave, comparing that with the green one, they look pretty similar so I may just go with that positioning.
     
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  15. P A D

    P A D Western Thunderer

    Decent broadsides of 60700 are non existent. This is the best I could find. Looks like the swoosh passes close to the handrail.
    8194785187_e114a3e936_b.jpg

    Slightly off topic but this is an interesting shot of Silver Link I'd sever seen before.
    julie-bridges-silver-link.jpg
     
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  16. Nick Dunhill

    Nick Dunhill Western Thunderer

    Hi Peter
    It's a very early pic of Silver Link. If you look closely the front coupling hook is recessed inside the casing, and it has noticeably shorter buffers. This led to the serious injury (and death) of a shunter so both were rapidly changed on the first few locos built for the Silver Jubilee service. They clearly hadn't settled on the swooshy livery at that time, and oddly it has a cast nameplate, as the names were painted on the first few when the Silver Jubilee service began.
     
    Last edited: 26 June 2019
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  17. P A D

    P A D Western Thunderer

    Hi Nick,
    Doesn't look so good without the swoosh.
    Didn't Gresley's daughter see it in this condition and suggest that the cast name plate spoiled the overall streamlined smooth appearance, and Gresley had the plates replaced with the painted names?

    Cheers,
    Peter
     
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  18. Nick Dunhill

    Nick Dunhill Western Thunderer

    ....W1 back from paint, so it's on with reassembly.


    First get a nicely running chassis. I build the chasssis up sequentially, testing for free running at every step.


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    This rendition of 60700 has AGH wheels which have to be 'quartered' (3rd-ed?) by eye and bonded with Loctite 603. It adds a layer of complexity shall we say....





    Then I built up the non mechanical parts of the model.


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    And on to final assembly


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    I'm going to have a little tiny whinge here about DCC equipment. I wish you electronics folks could make the hardware smaller (speakers, stayalive units, decoders etc etc.) They take up so much space and it becomes difficult to add the ballast needed to get the loco to pull a reasonable train. Also there's a rat's nest of wiring which has only limited voids to occupy and spoils the appearance of the model. Surely it could be simpler?


    Rant over. Next the model goes to WH's for further weathering and some better pics I hope.....
     
    Last edited: 5 October 2019
  19. LarryG

    LarryG Western Thunderer

    I suppose it depends on what one wants from "sound". Bass is essential to convey the deep exhaust of real locomotives. One reason why I eventually gave up on 4mm scale was the tinny sound from tiny speakers, as the same decoder in a 7mm loco allied to large speaker(s) makes a big difference.

    Surely there is all the room in the world in a Gresley 8-wheel Tender if constructed as a box without a coal well. That 4-6-4 looks a treat.
     
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  20. Yorkshire Dave

    Yorkshire Dave Western Thunderer

    Nice model Nick :thumbs:

    My approach is to ascertain what is the largest speaker can I use, work out where I can place the DCC equipment into the kit and then incorporate it into the build and/or build around it - including modifying parts etc.

    It appears the British approach is to cram everything into the loco body rather than utilise the tender space. I also recall the loco body here is a relatively thick resin casting which limits the space and it may also depend on what DCC equipment the client has provided/requested to be fitted.

    In this case I would have placed the decoder and stay alive in the tender and carried the six wires (two motor, two current and two speaker) between the loco and tender as two lots of three inside black carp fishing silicon tube. The loco would have the flying leads with plugs and the sockets will be on the underside of the tender which places the 'rats nest' in the tender.

    Does beg the question though - why a 'stay alive' when there are at least 22 wheels available for current collection.

    Didn't the driving wheels come with traction tyres then..? :p :D