Bracket Signal

oldravendale

Western Thunderer
Thank you Jon. Actually I think you are too kind, having seen your work. But I'll keep pressing on.:)

This is the staging built from scratch. Spacing of the slats was the most difficult aspect. The centre one didn't quite work out but I'll tell myself that it's only between you and me, and I'll not tell anyone....... The holes for fitting the stanchions at the ends have been marked out and drilled. Those for the middle have yet to be drilled through.

IMG_20200618_151734217.jpg
Just so the fitting can be seen in place this is the staging dry fitted on the framework.

IMG_20200618_151919002.jpg
The next task was to work out how to fit the stanchions for the hand rails. I referred to the Derek Mundy book and his answer is so simple that I don't know why I never thought of it (!) The ends of some wire - in this case 0.5mm - are bent over, just enough to give an area to take some solder. At this time the lengths of the stanchions is unimportant.

This is the view from underneath after soldering the stanchions in place.

IMG_20200618_162017633.jpg

Having done this the stanchions can simply be bent vertical using the Mark 1 eyeball. The shot below is before the stanchions were straightened up.

IMG_20200618_162059964.jpg

The height of the handrail having been determined at a nominal 2 ft 6 in I straightened some copper wire and wrapped it around the stanchions, soldering it in place.

IMG_20200618_171751779.jpg

Finally the stanchions were cut back and the copper wire cut to length. This last shot shows the staging with hand rail dry fitted to the top of the post. Tomorrow I'll solder it in place, fix the dollies in place and prime the whole assembly.

IMG_20200618_172325848.jpg

Brian
 

oldravendale

Western Thunderer
I started to paint the signal arms yesterday in anticipation of completing the signal proper today. Then, earlier today I fitted the steps and supports (not shown in the photos). Well, I actually didn't think this right through.

The lamp on the lower doll is about 5 ft above the staging so any servicing of the lamp could easily be carried out from the main staging. (Unless I was to be doing the servicing, in which case I'd need a milk crate).

IMG_20200620_132925625.jpg

But the lamp for the taller doll is about 7 ft above the stage so needs a ladder to reach the lamp. Then I realised that, if the ladder goes in from the side there would be a risk that the shorter signal arm could clout the guy servicing the upper lamp. And the width of the main staging would not allow the ladder to attack the lamp from the rear.

IMG_20200620_133103810.jpg

I therefore determined to build a supplementary stage to service the taller lamp. That is in hand right now and has taken all afternoon. In retrospect I'd have been better to simply build a new, wider, main staging. However, a supplementary staging would add a bit of extra interest.

It's mostly built today but not quite ready for photography. Hopefully it'll be completed and fixed tomorrow.:)

Brian
 

Jon Fitness

Western Thunderer
Ooh. Er, lovely work but please don't shoot the messenger but staging planks on the LMS signals go side to side rather than front to back..It's usually 3 1ft wide planks (runs and hides)....
I think the supplemental stagings a good idea though and is regularly used where a ladder isn't suitable.
JF
 

oldravendale

Western Thunderer
Hi Jon.

Thanks so much for your comments. Please come back out of hiding! It all helps me build up some knowledge as I'll be surprised if this is the last signal to drop on my workbench. For this one, though, I can't face taking that staging off and rebuilding it. Let's keep it between ourselves. :) Do MR signals have the planks as I've built them? In which case have I built a hybrid? I'm actually building using an MR bracket as the reference and looking at the instructions (again!) for this kit note that it is for LMS. I suspect that's my error.

It's very frustrating as three planks would have been so much easier than the multiplicity I've used. MSE kits tend to include the staging but it's not present in this one as far as I can see.

Anyway, moving on, (with short length staging planks!):

First is the new supplementary staging as fitted. There are two problems with it. Firstly the signal arm on the smaller dolly swipes the handrail on the left of the ladder and secondly the rear blinder will get jammed between the handrail and the back of the lamp.

IMG_20200621_153634307.jpg IMG_20200621_153652335.jpg

Out came the cutters and that bit of staging to the left of the ladder was cut off. I don't know why I'd built it like that anyway! That left hand bit would have no practical purpose. Fortunately the staging is made up of quite small and thin components so it cut fine and filed up OK afterwards.

I then studied my reference photos a bit more and what becomes obvious is that the staging I've created is not untypical, but that the hand rail is bent away from the back of the lamp to allow the blinder to go through its full arc. Bending of handrail therefore proceeded and I've ended up with this:

IMG_20200621_170747044.jpg IMG_20200621_170825520.jpg IMG_20200621_170839249.jpg

It looks a bit like a crows nest, but satisfies its purpose.

Jon - more comments welcome as it is very much a learning exercise and I've been conscious throughout that I'm making this up as I go along......

Brian
 

Jon Fitness

Western Thunderer
To be honest, that's not a bad structure. It resembles more a sort of BR Eastern Region bracket signal at the top now! It looks a very credible and well constructed signal and I'm very much looking forward to the finished article.
And yes, MR signals have the planks running front to back!
Cheers
JF
 

oldravendale

Western Thunderer
Thank you Jon. I am much enthused by your response.

I looked through my references yesterday and actually found an MR/LMS hybrid, described as such, with the boards running front to back. It didn't have the "crow's nest", though!:D

I reckon, for the club layout "credible" will be fine. Love Lane and others of similar ilk would never (quite rightly) accept this, but they probably have someone who knows chapter and verse about the proper structures and in most households the club layout would be considered an elaborate test track. I'm encouraged to have another go in the future though. There's a gantry needed for the six-road run in to the terminal station.:)) P'raps not quite yet, eh?

Painting started yesterday. I'd like to get it finished today but that rather depends on how the day pans out. I may go fishing (on the canal) this afternoon or tomorrow and we have some neighbours who have been looking after us during our isolation coming in this evening - garden, social distancing, own glasses but wine and gin courtesy of us. We've been very humbled by the way neighbours have supported us over the last too many weeks.

The final effort will be on here for your critique, Jon, with my thanks.

Brian
 

Tim Humphreys ex Mudhen

Western Thunderer
Thank you Jon. I am much enthused by your response.

I looked through my references yesterday and actually found an MR/LMS hybrid, described as such, with the boards running front to back. It didn't have the "crow's nest", though!:D

I reckon, for the club layout "credible" will be fine. Love Lane and others of similar ilk would never (quite rightly) accept this, but they probably have someone who knows chapter and verse about the proper structures and in most households the club layout would be considered an elaborate test track. I'm encouraged to have another go in the future though. There's a gantry needed for the six-road run in to the terminal station.:)) P'raps not quite yet, eh?

Painting started yesterday. I'd like to get it finished today but that rather depends on how the day pans out. I may go fishing (on the canal) this afternoon or tomorrow and we have some neighbours who have been looking after us during our isolation coming in this evening - garden, social distancing, own glasses but wine and gin courtesy of us. We've been very humbled by the way neighbours have supported us over the last too many weeks.

The final effort will be on here for your critique, Jon, with my thanks.

Brian

Brian,

I've built the signals for Love Lane and wish I did know much more about them:). We would be proud to have a signal built as well as yours on our layout. Much as you have done I've spent hours looking through photos for suitable structures and then trying to work out dimensions. I've a fair stock of etchings and castings and some very nice posts that the late Steve Baldock machined for us. I then try to cobble together something that is considered fairly prototypical and fits the space we have. We're very lucky to have 'Boyblunder' aka Robin Impney who fits the servos to drive them and also working lamps. Must admit that I now quite enjoy signal building with still a couple more to go.

all the best
Tim
 

Jon Fitness

Western Thunderer
There are many hybrids out there! These are mostly caused by the big four modernising their inherited pregrouping structures, a process that carried on well into BR times. As mechanical bits wore out, they would also usually work loose on wooden posts as the fixing holes got elongated so not only would newer fittings replace them, they would move them to a slightly less rotten bit of the posts! MR ones were no exception and there were plenty of wooden structures with BR era upper quadrants about, all proudly topped by MR finials. Keep up the good work, I always love seeing signals being built:);):drool:
Cheers
JF
 

oldravendale

Western Thunderer
Thanks for your comments Tim and Jon. It's good to know that the rather "freelance" approach may be a good starting point for learning more. It certainly gives a start on tomorrow and I know a lot more than when I started the kit. In fact it's one of those builds which is rather counter intuitive - to my eyes the kit was incomplete and lacked some of the important features I'd have expected but that has lead to further research and scratch building. In circumstances such as this the learning process is really enhanced.

Brian
 

oldravendale

Western Thunderer
So I did get some stuff done on the signal. In fact it's now finished apart from the operating wires and appropriate weathering. Not much more to be said except here are some photos and thanks to Jon and Tim for their sage advice. A very small adjustment to be made to one of the arms which is not quite horizontal. Photos are very critical, aren't they?

IMG_20200623_161426978.jpg IMG_20200623_161454663.jpg

Brian
 

Attachments

  • IMG_20200623_161512293.jpg
    IMG_20200623_161512293.jpg
    57.7 KB · Views: 6

Jon Fitness

Western Thunderer
Here's a SDJR bracket signal for a layout of Radstock. Its about as extreme as I get! I designed and had the bracket and the post etched. The post has an internal bracing plate which had to be soldered inside as I assembled the 2 halves of the etched post. I only had one of them so I had to get it right first go!Rad010 (600x800).jpg Rad004 (600x800).jpg
 

oldravendale

Western Thunderer
Oh goodness me, Jon. That is a lovely thing. Your technique is so restrained.

This is one of the areas where WT excels. Those with such skill are so willing to share their knowledge and experience with all of us who are willing to try. Perhaps I have the basics but lack the knowledge or refinement. That surely comes with experience. When (or if!) I'm asked to build the gantry I'll be back!

Thanks for sharing your pictures. They are inspirational.

Brian
 

jonte

Western Thunderer
Magnificent, Brian!

Something to aim for :)

May I ask what you used as a base coat i.e. acid etch primer or just primer?

Kind regards,

Jonte
 

oldravendale

Western Thunderer
Hi Jonte.

I used U-Pol Acid #8 (Halfords supply this) misted over followed by Halfords white primer, both from rattle cans. I've not applied a top coat to the white which looks good and is a nice matt finish. It takes weathering well. (I'm not sure whether I'll be doing this or leaving it to someone else at club to do.) The black is Humbrol Matt which came out rather too glossy and the red is Railmatch also matt which came out as semi matt. Both will be OK with a coating of grime.

Brian
 
Top