Building an Ace Kits "K"

[richard carr]

Brian

If you going to do a heavy weathering job on the K then that will improve the look of the lining no end, it's certainly the plan for my Ivatt 4mt !

Richard

 

[oldravendale]

You are, of course, absolutely correct.

The problem for me is that I don't/haven't ever weathered any of my locos. Or anything, come to that.

Maybe I should learn.

B

 

[oldravendale]

This thread shows that the last time I was active in my workshop was August last year, and then builders and decorating intervened. However, that all done, at last until April, I thought it about time to do the backhead for the K which is the final job to be done. To kick this off, may I refer back to Post 462, 19th June on this thread which shows the first guesswork involved in putting a backhead together, in the absence of any decent cab photos of the loco in it's later days? It was generally agreed that my concoction was a work of fiction and required considerable revision. I received much assistance in creating a more feasible layout from Steph, Yorkshire Dave and Roger Scanlon in particular, and below is the result, held together with blutac.

The only really good photo I have is of a K cab in 1913 which bears little resemblance to the 1960s, but the steam fountain is very visible. However, having started to create one it seems that this may well be one of the changes and I think I'm inclined to leave it off. The pipework needs bending to fit around various obstacles, and there are a number of gauges which will be fitted to the cab with appropriate pipes off in the final assembly. It's also been suggested that the water gauges are too high, although looking at those rather poor quality photos which still exist I'm not convinced at the moment. I've also omitted the reverser from these photos although it exists and will be fitted.

I'll appreciate any thoughts and comments before I make this layout permanent.



In other news, the A3 was started and is now on hold while I decide what to do to create a look alike 107 boiler - the one in the kit is a 94HP. It'll never be a true 107 boiler as there are differences apart from the positions of the wash out clamps - or do I fudge my way through it and use the 94HP boiler? I'm giving myself time to make that decision so in the meantime will start on the promised MOK Q1.

Brian

PS, William has made some progress on the wagon but enjoys running trains at club too much to concentrate on that when there are locos on the track. We'll pick it up from time to time and doubtless William will update his blog.

 

[oldravendale]

Thank you all for looking at this. In the absence of further comment I'll shortly start work to permanise the layout. However, I now have some new instructions to get my teeth in to for Finney7 and the tax man needs my attention for a while. The relaxation which comes with retirement is so rewarding. Added to which my old laptop has just done the equivalent of exploding, and the new one won't operate on some of the programmes I use.

C'est la vie.......

B

 

[Peter Cross]

The laptop sounds about right. The amount of stuff I've saved over the years on discs and drives that can't be read by the lastest machines.

Look forward to seeing the K finally finished. And I'm lucky my wife does my tax return here my portuPortuis not good enough, but don't tell here it never will be.

 

[Martin Shaw]

Brian
You made a comment about the position of the water gauges, which I feel are far too high. There are three washout plugs on the backhead and therefore more or less the position of the firebox crown sheet. Water gauges are positioned such that if water is in the bottom of the glass then the crown sheet is covered by say 3 inches. Similarly where you have them, if the boiler had a full glass the water level is above the regulator stuffing gland which will promptly leak all over the cab floor. So sort of midway between the washout plugs and the regulator will be about right, especially since there appears to be no evidence to the contrary to catch you out.
Regards
Martin

 

[oldravendale]

That's helpful, Martin. It's confirmation of another comment. I'll lower the position so that the top of the glass is just below the level of the regulator gland. I'll have to fill two holes and make two more, but - ho hum!!!

Brian

Edit... However, I've just looked at the photos of the E4 as posted by Yorkshire Dave on this thread to give me a reference to which I could work and the top of the gauge glasses look to be above the regulator gland. Am I misunderstanding your comments about water level being above the regulator gland?

 

[Steph Dale]

Dad,
I reckon you're about right; the washout plugs might be a bit low, but it's still about right...

Martin,
I've just checked a couple of sections of the K (including the one that Dad's covering with his model backhead to keep us on the right side of the NRM) and there's about 18-24" between the top of the firebox inner and outer. The gland for the regulator lines up with the top of the gauge glass (tick) and the washout plugs are just below the bottom of the gauge glass (sorta-kinda-tick ).

It's just another weird Brighton boiler I guess. It was recognised by Holcroft and others to be somewhat deficient in its proportions, but that only really became apparent on the B4xs!

Steph

 

[Scale7JB]

In theory the washout plugs would be near to or lower than the bottom of the lower fitting of the gauge glass to clean across the top of the firebox crown?

JB.

 

[Steph Dale]

JB,
Not on the K; they're just above the bottom mounting for the gauge glass. Dad's put them where you'd suggest, but they're perhaps a touch low.

Posts 387 and 389 have photos...

Steph

 

[Martin Shaw]

Steph/Brian
You'll have looked at this in far more depth than I, however I have looked again at the two photos and it appears that in the later one the water gauges are lower. This may be perspective, I don't know. I can only presume Brighton drivers and fitters kept there regulator stuffing glands well packed and nipped up. I've also looked at Dave's pic of the E4 backhead, your quite correct re position but you'll notice the tell tale staining behind the regulator handle and of course it is a round top boiler. They still do weird things in Brighton, so I've heard.
Regards
Martin

 

[oldravendale]

In view of this uncertainty I think I'll go with what I have. As I said, I've not found a decent photo of the backhead of a K towards the end of their lives, so unless someone has one hidden in a corner of their back garden who will comment? (Even if they can see in the murk which is the cab interior. If any comment is made I'll refer them to the E4 on the Bluebell.

I appreciate the comments, though. It all helps in building up a picture of the loco in the absence of any firm evidence.

Brian

PS. I've just looked at the 1913 photo and there's no doubt that the top of the gauge glass is just about level with the centre of the regulator and any associated pipework and valves are above that. The fact that the photo is so old means that a lot has changed - we already know that from later if less distinct photos - but the location of the gauge glasses seems constant.

 

[Scanlon]

Martin,
K's had a Belpair firebox.

Brian
go for it, I agree with your comments re the 1913 photo. you have made a magnificent job out of a p**'s ear!

Roger

 

[oldravendale]

Thanks Roger.

And here's another thought. The locations of the wash out plugs, firehole door and regulator are already marked out on the backhead blank, so they must be right. Or perhaps not, eh?

 

[P A D]

Hi Brian,
I agree with Roger. Definitely a silk purse result and as there seems to be no hard evidence as to the exact position of the fittings, then a little artistic licence is in order.

You should try a Finney 7 kit next.
I have heard they are half decent kits, which is some magnitude better than Ace!

 

[oldravendale]

Thanks, Peter.

Now where should I go to get a Finney7 kit?

B

 

[Martin Shaw]

K's had a Belpair firebox.

Thanks Roger, I was trying, obviously badly, to illustrate why positioning of water gauges on the E4 backhead might not necessarily be an accurate pointer for the later design of the K class boiler. It does seem strange that so little prototype info is available compared to other Brighton classes, possibly because they were a goods class.
Martin

 

[Yorkshire Dave]

Without any hard and fast evidence for the 1960's I'd go along with the 1913 photo for the major backhead fittings - Unless it was a completely new style of boiler the position of the fittings would remain virtually unchanged.

Looking at both the 1913 and 1950's photos from earlier in the thread the only major differences I can see are:

The Weir feed pump fittings (LHS) have been replaced by the vacuum ejector
Vacuum brake gauge mounted on the front cab
I would also hazard a guess there will be a speedometer and boiler pressure gauge mounted to the front of the cab.
On the backhead, new Ashford fittings for water inlet? - apologies I don't do steam loco cab nomenclature

On the subject of gauges the Westinghouse air brake gauge would have remained mounted to the inside of the right hand cab side.

Quite a number of ex-LBSC locos ended up with Ashford fittings - is this what the 3 valve lump on the right is? What purpose did this serve?

 

[Yorkshire Dave]

It does seem strange that so little prototype info is available compared to other Brighton classes, possibly because they were a goods class.

I agree, goods locos were always the poor relations to their passenger cousins.

And also possibly the fact they were withdrawn en-bloc in 1962, quickly and quietly scrapped in house at Eastleigh and Stewarts Lane (apart from two by King's of Norwich) by 1964 - before any preservation society/interest group realised.

 

[Martin Shaw]

Dave
It is I think a two feed hydrostatic lubricator, although since it doesn't appear on the earlier cab photo is is probably an early SR fitting. They are reasonably reliable but not patch on a Silvertown or Wakefield mechanical both of which attracted a royalty payment hence the hydrostatic.
Regards
Marrtin