BUSES ~ Model and prototype...

Discussion in 'Talk' started by LarryG, 3 March 2020.

  1. LarryG

    LarryG Western Thunderer

    Like many railway modellers, I also wear two other hats........One for Buses and 'tother for piano (acoustic and electric). Back in the late 1990's, engraved plates supplier Ralph Jackson of Jackson-Evans and I were discussing possible alterations to the Corgi 1/60th Utility bodied Guy Arab and Daimler.

    So in January 2000 I started preparing large scale hand-drawn artwork for etching bus radiators and bonnets. Ralph filled in the red parts that denoted half-etch, but I have added some red on computer today just to give an idea. Below is a louvered bonnet top and side for the pre-war Leyland TD3 to 5 Series...
    WEB bus 6.jpg

    Below is a pre-war Leyland radiator with adaptor parts to make a TD3/4 or TD5.
    WEB Bus 7.jpg

    This is the pre-war Leyland radiator surround. I soldered the etchings to thick brass and made shaped & formed patterns for casting in whitemetal...
    WEB Bus 7B.jpg

    The post-war Leyland PD1, 2 & 3 radiator. I experimented using different thickness lines to create the illusion of blanking screens behind the radiator slats. Red would also go between the slats of course.....
    WEB Bus 7C.jpg

    The beginnings of art work for a front wheel centre. I had never heard about CAD in those day.....:bowdown:
    WEB Bus 8.jpg


    To be continued...
     
    Last edited: 3 March 2020
  2. LarryG

    LarryG Western Thunderer

    Below are a small sample of the 1/50th scale radiators. A 4mm range of castings was also produced. Below are the Leyland TD2 and TD5 rads...

    WEB bus 9.jpg

    Crossley's : Left to right :- post-war DD42, pre-war Crossley Diesel, Crossley petrol.....
    WEB Bus 10 .jpg

    Bristol PV post-war radiator and Bristol pre-war radiator.....
    WEB Bus 11.jpg

    Left to right:- Post-war Guy Arab, AEC Regent III, pre-war Thorneycroft, post-war Daimler CVD. Front wheel.......
    WEB Bus 12.jpg

    AEC Regent II mesh-grill radiator and AEC post-war Regent III radiator.
    WEB Bus 13.jpg

    The wartime Guy Arab I & II had a higher bonnet line hence the lower winding handle hole. Note also the dimple at the bottom of the radiator shell...
    WEB Bus 14.jpg
     
    Last edited: 3 March 2020
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  3. LarryG

    LarryG Western Thunderer

    The radiator, bonnet, cab front, wings, headlights and wheels were all whitemetal castings used to convert a Corgi 1/5oth wartime bus into a Roe bodied Leyland TD4 ....

    WEB Bus 5.jpg

    Flares rule!!! John Holmes (left) and yours truly on the annual Trans-Pennine Commercial Vehicle Rally with Ribble Leyland bodied TD5 in 1972.
    WEB Bus John and me.jpg

    The destination blinds were photographed from real blinds but have faded badly over the years. The upper deck front and roof were also whitemetal castings...
    WEB Bus 3.jpg

    Rear dome is also a casting. It was quite an extensive rebuild! The last time I traveled on one of these Oldham Corporation TD4's was in the winter of 1955 which was the coldest and snowiest between the two Big Freezes of 1947 and 1963...
    WEB Bus 4.jpg
     
    Last edited: 4 March 2020
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  4. LarryG

    LarryG Western Thunderer

    The various 1/50th scale front wing white metal castings were direct replacements for Corgi mazak wings and were trialed on Corgi bus bodies along with te radiators and other castings. The LH bus has an upper deck front casting. Left to right :- AEC Regent III, AEC Regent I and AEC Regent II
    WEB Bus 17.jpg

    Regent III with replacement up desk front, bonnet, wings and radiator. Temporarily painted in Rochdale Corporation livery on one side. The RH bus carries Regent I castings including louvered bonnet...
    WEB Bus 18.jpg

    DD42 on the left and pre-war Crossley Condor on the right, while testing the Crossley radiator, wings and bonnet castings.
    WEB Bus 19.jpg

    A 4mm rtr bus converted to a Crossley heavy oil bus (diesel) with appropriate radiator and other details...
    WEB Bus 21.jpg
     
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  5. LarryG

    LarryG Western Thunderer

    All the aforementioned 'work' took place 20 years ago. With the painting & lining business still taking up most of my time, I didn't really have the time to deal with numerous small orders for bus parts. Ralph Jackson eventually took over the model bus parts and as far as I am aware is still marketing them under his 'Regent III' label. The wartime Guy Arab below was one of the first 1.50th buses I repainted (Ashton-U-Lyne livery)...
    WEB Bus 20.jpg

    I knew these buses well as a boy and well remember their unforgiving wooden slatted seats that they retained into the early 1950's....
    WEB Bus 15.jpg

    Ashton-Under-Lyne took delivery of its last four Guys of the Arab IV type with 6LW engines and S.H.Bond bodies in May 1956. They were delivered in the then new livery of mid blue and cream. I photographed the one below at Park Bridge iron works in 1970. I was not allowed to board this 'workmans service' bus here at the works, but I could board it once it entered the main Hathershaw-Ashton route. I parked the car and did just this. At Ashton, the conductor told me the next part of his duty was to Hyde, so I stayed aboard. This, my final ride on a Guy, really brought back boyhood memories of early post-war bus travel between Oldham, Ashton and Hyde...
    WEB Bus 15B.jpg

    Another conversion using my castings, this time to a Roe bodied Leyland PD1 of Oldham Corporation...
    WEB Bus 16.jpg
     
    Last edited: 5 March 2020
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  6. LarryG

    LarryG Western Thunderer

    I wonder how many remember the halcyon days of bus kits and the Model bus Federation? Kits from Alan Brackenborough, Pirate Models, Anbrica, Westward, Cotswold Models etc. Fifty percent of my business came from bus manufacturers and Federation members in the very early 1970's. Painting new models and having them photographed for boxlid illustration was exciting for a time. George E. Mellor (GEM) did the photography for me from around 1969 until I took up photography as a hobby in 1976, by which time I had withdrawn from building bus kits. All the photos below were taken by George M.

    This Leyland 'tin-front' started out as an Alan 'Bracks' kit with pre-printed sides (similar to P.C Models coach sides), glued to a whitemetal skeleton. A Bracks tin front casting and bonnet was part of the conversion. I repainted the Orion bodied job in Oldham corporation ivory and lake....
    WEB Bus 22.jpg

    An Anbrico PD1 kit provided the basis for this stab at a Roe bodied Leyland TD5. Painted in Oldham colours...
    WEB Bus 23.jpg

    This started out as an Anbrico AEC Regent III with Charles Roe 'Pullman' body. I built the kit with a 'Bracks' Leyland tin front to represent another Oldham Corporation bus of the late 1950's.
    WEB Bus 24.jpg

    This kit was designed to produce a half-cab pre-war Leyland, but i built it with a full width cab to represent Oldham's TS6's that were purchased in 1934 for Manchester-Greenfield limited stop services.
    WEB Bus 25.jpg

    Years before EFE and Corgi went into 4mm model bus production, I produced this lowbridge Manchester Crossley from an Anbrico kit....
    WEB Bus 26.jpg
     
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  7. Yorkshire Dave

    Yorkshire Dave Western Thunderer

    This is a nice diversion into provincial buses and the early kits Larry. Keep the buses coming!

    I remember the kits you've alluded to being around and my interest my interest in buses started when we moved to Aylesbury in the early 1970's on the edge of London Transport territory. The RTs on route 301 and RFs on Green Line route 706 passed the front door!

    I also remember the red Luton Corporation Transport Dennis Lolines and the psssssss of the opening air operated sliding front door when we used to visit my grandparents in Dunstable during the late 60's - I was a mere nipper then!

    I've modelled a few 1/76 buses in the past but only after some of the LT types were introduced which looked correct. The RT is EFE and the RF was a plastic model produced by a Dutch company. The LT bus shelter is an old cast metal item given to me by my grandmother many moons ago which I repainted. I have no idea of it's origin apart from being 'British Made'.

    Bus stop.jpg

    RF 592 04.jpg

    RT 4751 07.jpg

    I've since move up to O scale and recently made patterns for the correct style seats for the Hachette 1/43 RT for my model stripped and repainted into LT Country Area Green.
    .
    RT 4751 23.jpg

    Mould 5.jpg

    RT 4751 47.jpg
     

    Attached Files:

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  8. P A D

    P A D Western Thunderer

    Hi Larry,
    I remember looking at the models in the Anbrico shop in Perseverance Street in Pudsey. It was there in the 1970s for a few years before it closed down. Gone are the days.

    Very interesting, so as Dave says keep them coming.
    Cheers,
    Peter
     
  9. LarryG

    LarryG Western Thunderer

    A mid 1930's Crossley Mancunian at Hollinwood with two Oldham corporation trams in early 1946. The once white lower panel on the tram had been clumsily painted over during the war. And its drizzling as it does....
    WEB Bus 27 copy.jpg

    I painted te EFE bus on the right to represnt one of Oldham's three PD2's delivered in 1953. EFE produced their bus (left) to represent one purchased second hand bu Oldham in 1966. I was asked to supply a genuine sample of Oldham Red, but EFE used a colour that they considered was close enough. both are fitted with my cast radiators...
    WEB Bus 28.jpg

    This pre-war Leyland bodied Leyland TD5 started life as an EFE post-war PD2. Most of the alterations were at the front end including the wings, cab windows and radiator.
    WEB Bus 29.jpg

    I photographed one of Oldham's last remaining PD2's with Roe body in the early 1970's. It is carrying the corporation's later livery of Pommard & Cream plus a replacement fibreglass 'tin-front'....All manager Harry Taylor's innovations....
    WEB Bus upload Thumbnail.jpg
     
  10. LarryG

    LarryG Western Thunderer

    On the buses in late January 1961. A great job working mainly Greenfield/Uppermill-Manchester limited stop services for 4½ years before going 'behind the window' with the inspectors. But it was never my intention to stay in Oldham, and in June 1965 I left for Wales and a fresh beginning... (Forgot to say that's me in't middle)....

    WEB Larry on buses 1961 FB.jpg

    It wasn't the end of my link with full size buses, as I bought a Daimler CVD6/N.Counties in 1972. It was ex.Stalybridge, Hyde, Mossley & Dukinfield Joint Board (SHMD), and being born in Hyde, I was keen to restore it to its former glory. I took it for a short drive in Greenfield (Yorks) before full restoration began...
    WEB bus 30.jpg

    Restored to original SHMD dark olive and pale cream. This was the last time I saw it after I sold it to a fellow member of the Crossley Omnimbus Society in 1975. Although my day-job was painting models, painting & lining a real bus was quite a challenge....
    WEB Bus 31.jpg
     
    Last edited: 12 March 2020
  11. LarryG

    LarryG Western Thunderer

    I think we are probably born with a few selected interests that lie dormant until someone lights the touch paper. My touch papers must have been attached to trains and buses, ignited on travels from Hyde to Oldham during the war. One would think that street trams would make an impact on a small boy, but perhaps my mothers cursing of 'the damn things' put me off them. Below is Stockport, home of the little trams we rode on down to Hyde Market several times a week. I even remember when the blackout material was removed from windows and how bright the world seemed that morning...

    WEB Bus 34.jpg

    Around 1946, my fathers youngest brother decided to visit Bassett-Lowke's in Manchester to see if anything of use could be purchased. We went down by one the city's large bogie trams and came back by a limited stop bus service. I included both in this image near Hyde market, the bus being a Daimler demonstrator purchased by the SHMD Board in 1937...
    WEB Bus 33.jpg
     
  12. P A D

    P A D Western Thunderer

  13. John57sharp

    John57sharp Active Member

    Hi Larry, that was a good trip up memory lane. I was in the MBF for a while, probably mid to late 70s. Recall some amazing models at shows in Manchester, was it Geoff Starkey perhaps, and there was a guy in Macclesfield whose name escapes me. Anyway I still have a small number of kits in various stages of restoration that may appear on here one day.... I recall the great excitement when Pirate introduced the Bristol VRL complete with toilet and loo roll... I may still have that somewhere. Cheers John
     
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  14. LarryG

    LarryG Western Thunderer

    Hi John, those early days of 4mm scale bus kits were indeed exciting times although the bus kits were often difficult to glaze.

    Due to having produced patterns for casting difficult parts of buses such as roofs, rear domes and front panels, I gave some consideration to etching bus bus body sides. Scale drawings were prepared from artwork that bus builders had submitted while tendering for contracts, although one had to take them with a pinch of salt! Oldham generally favored Charles Roe of Leeds and so the other manufacturers made their drawings look distinctly Roe-ish!

    That was as far as things went and so no CAD's were ever produced. I might come back to this later.
     
  15. Yorkshire Dave

    Yorkshire Dave Western Thunderer

    On the subject of buses I took a trip to the local model railway show in Keighley today and this ex Halifax bus was providing the free transport between the rail station and venue.
    Halifax Bus.jpg
     
  16. LarryG

    LarryG Western Thunderer

    Super livery. Thanks for posting. When we used to drive over to the K&WVR via Rochdale, we dropped down to Triangle and see one of these buses at the terminus. In those days, you knew where you were by the livery of the buses!
     
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  17. P A D

    P A D Western Thunderer

    These days we need a device with access to global positioning satellites! Much cheaper to paint the buses different colours. :)):)):)):))
     
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  18. LarryG

    LarryG Western Thunderer

    Before leaving Stockport, the public transport department was well known in the Manchester area for maintaining it's fleet in first-class order. In fact their Guy Arabs with wartime bodies lasted until 1964. However, the Crossley DD42 compared badly with the new Leyland PD2's. The Crossley DD42/7 pictured below was delivered new in 1951 by which time the straight waist body style had become usual.....

    WEB Bus 37.jpg

    An earlier Crossley with Manchester body styling and raised rear windows. The reason for these was the diagonal bracing over the rear wheel arch (on both decks) which was intended to cope with heavy platform loading at rush hours.....
    WEB Bus 41.jpg

    EFE introduced their Leyland PD2 in Stockport colours some years ago. I added the black lining (somewhat clumsily!) and a destination that I was familiar with in my youth.....
    WEB Bus 38.jpg

    One of my cast radiators had replaced the very poor EFE offering...
    WEB Bus 39.jpg

    Corgi made a very good job of their Stockport Leyland PD3/14 with East Lancs bodywork. They were the transport departments final delivery of buses in 1969. Note the retention of exposed radiators at this late date. No rear-engined double deckers were ever purchased.....
    WEB Bus 40.jpg
     
    Last edited: 15 March 2020
  19. LarryG

    LarryG Western Thunderer

    Moving northwards towards Manchester, we entered Stalybridge, Hyde, Mossley & Dukinfield Joint Board territory known for green Daimlers and northern Counties bodies. The board had bought Thorneycrofts until 1936, but while Hyde was home-territory to me, the double deck Thorneycrofts were on their way out and had gone by 1952. However, just after the war, I well remember being dragged by my mother past one member in Hyde market that was boiling over. She had a job getting me past pneumatic drills and compressors and had lost all patience by the time we reached the Thorneycroft! The single deck Cygnets lasted rather longer and I well remember a journey from Godley in one with a cousin; it's seats having been arranged longitudinally during the war. A Thorneycroft Daring at Stalybridge in its final years.

    WEB Bus 35.jpg

    Northern Counties bodies and Gardner 6LW engines continued on Daimler COG chassis. The bus below was from a batch delivered in 1938 with the familiar 'bathtub' body with back and front domes looking almost identical. The final batches arrived in 1940 wthout the curved front and rear windows on the lower deck. I rode in these as often as possible at weekends and during summer holidays....
    WEB Bus 36.jpg
     
  20. LarryG

    LarryG Western Thunderer

    The wartime allocation delivered in 1943-4 mostly had AEC engines and lasted around 17 years with original bodies. The chassis went on to serve abroad! This is St.Michaels Square in Ashton-U-Lyne where I regularly caught the bus to my dad's parents home in Newton....
    WEB Bus 43.jpg

    With the ending of the war came Daimlers with peacetime Northern Counties bodies, but among them was a batch of then with Brush bodies. They were easily identified with their low waist rail and three bumber bars on the back end. Whenever I visited family in Hyde, I ran between Ashton's two bus terminating points hoping to travel on one.....
    WEB Bus 44.jpg

    Fleet No.44 is standing on the bridge over the Woodhead line near Newton and has the deeper cream band (as most had). I was born just up the road from here and did quite a bit of train watching in front of the houses on the left while on hols at my grandparents in the early 1950's. When steam disappeared in 1954, so did I...
    WEB Bus 45.jpg

    These buses simply disappeared but I didn't know at the time that the Brush bodies were so poor that they had to be replaced by Northern Counties bodies in 1954. The gaunt 7' 6" wide buses that I saw and rode on afterwards were in fact my old friends in a different guise! This one is at the Cheshire Cheese terminus in Newton, Hyde....
    WEB Bus 42.jpg

    Mrs.G and our SHMD Daimler CVD6 bus in 1975...
    WEB bus 89.jpg
     
    Last edited: 30 March 2020 at 18:16