Class 37 variations and JLTRT differences, grills, bodies, roofs etc.
- Thread starter tomstaf
- Start date
Pugsley
Western Thunderer
The grilles on the No 2 end in your picture are the same as those on the refurbished nose supplied to me by JLTRT for the 37/4. I'm not sure they do the ones fitted to the No 1 end though - you'll probably need to ask them direct (probably best to send them that picture at the same time).
The 37/4's have the same style as the No 2 end in that picture in all 4 corners, 5's and 7's are different for some reason, I've no idea why.
I suspect you'll be making your own flush front as well.
The 37/4's have the same style as the No 2 end in that picture in all 4 corners, 5's and 7's are different for some reason, I've no idea why.
I suspect you'll be making your own flush front as well.
mickoo
Western Thunderer
Is that on the JLTRT models or 1:1? As all the photos I have of modified/refurbished 37's have the same grills at both ends and both sides, if you've any photos of those sub classes with original grills I'd like to see them
Pugsley
Western Thunderer
There's two different styles of refurbished grille, if you look at the pic that Tom posted it shows both of them. At the No 2 end (LH end in that pic) the grilles have a central dividing bar, at the other end they don't. All of the /4 subclass have the dividing bars at each corner, as do 37901 and 902. All (as far as I can tell without looking at photos of every one of them) of the other refurbished locos have a combination of those with and without.
This pic shows the two styles next to each other at the same end:
http://www.flickr.com/photos/655329...FK-dmhJNP-dmhT15-d9P9u1-dzR75M-9UUXB5-7c4hc4/
This is one of the reasons why you have to study photos carefully if you want to model a 37 accurately.
I'm not 100% sure why they're different, but thinking about it logically there would have been only so many of the original type long grilles available during the refurb process - I think the old long grilles were reused where possible. The new ones that had to be made, to make up the shortfall, were made with no dividing bar to simplify construction. Which would also explain why the two different types were normally (but not always) diagonally opposed.
I'm fairly sure that no refurbished loco ever had the long/short grille combination of the original build.
This pic shows the two styles next to each other at the same end:
http://www.flickr.com/photos/655329...FK-dmhJNP-dmhT15-d9P9u1-dzR75M-9UUXB5-7c4hc4/
This is one of the reasons why you have to study photos carefully if you want to model a 37 accurately.
I'm not 100% sure why they're different, but thinking about it logically there would have been only so many of the original type long grilles available during the refurb process - I think the old long grilles were reused where possible. The new ones that had to be made, to make up the shortfall, were made with no dividing bar to simplify construction. Which would also explain why the two different types were normally (but not always) diagonally opposed.
I'm fairly sure that no refurbished loco ever had the long/short grille combination of the original build.
mickoo
Western Thunderer
Pugsley,
Ahh that horizontal bar that isn't a horizontal bar LOL, all grills are the same on refurbished class 37, I've just gone through all my 400+ photos and all show one piece grills at either end. However and hopefully this will explain the perceived difference, the second man side is the end that has been modified, originally it was two half height grills. Nose grills are not end dependant but side dependant and thus mirror each other irrespective of end viewed.
When they were refurbished they left a horizontal bar across the opening, just like the drivers side which also has a full opening. However, the drives side is just a grill for ventilation, the second man side is the intake for the traction motor blowers. Over time the second man grills accumulate dirt from all the air and grit sucked in, however the area where the internal bar is accumulates less and thus retains its colour better and gives the impression of a horizontal bar.
Original nose end on drivers side showing dividing brace and pipework behind grill, 37 150.
Refurbished loco with internal bracing added like drivers side and showing fixings for internal filters to traction motor blowers, 37 418.
Effect of internal bracing on weathering at traction motor intake, 37 425
37 404 with weathering dividing bar at 2nd man side at far end and slight weathering on drivers side.
37 412 with weathered dividing bar more evident on one grill than the other.
The only odd one out that I can find is 37 425 which has a damaged grill at #1 end drivers side and was blanked out for many years.
Copyright exists with all original owners, images shown for indicative purposes only.
That's my understanding of the whole issue
Apologies to Tom for the digression.
Ahh that horizontal bar that isn't a horizontal bar LOL, all grills are the same on refurbished class 37, I've just gone through all my 400+ photos and all show one piece grills at either end. However and hopefully this will explain the perceived difference, the second man side is the end that has been modified, originally it was two half height grills. Nose grills are not end dependant but side dependant and thus mirror each other irrespective of end viewed.
When they were refurbished they left a horizontal bar across the opening, just like the drivers side which also has a full opening. However, the drives side is just a grill for ventilation, the second man side is the intake for the traction motor blowers. Over time the second man grills accumulate dirt from all the air and grit sucked in, however the area where the internal bar is accumulates less and thus retains its colour better and gives the impression of a horizontal bar.
Original nose end on drivers side showing dividing brace and pipework behind grill, 37 150.
Refurbished loco with internal bracing added like drivers side and showing fixings for internal filters to traction motor blowers, 37 418.
Effect of internal bracing on weathering at traction motor intake, 37 425
37 404 with weathering dividing bar at 2nd man side at far end and slight weathering on drivers side.
37 412 with weathered dividing bar more evident on one grill than the other.
The only odd one out that I can find is 37 425 which has a damaged grill at #1 end drivers side and was blanked out for many years.
Copyright exists with all original owners, images shown for indicative purposes only.
That's my understanding of the whole issue
Apologies to Tom for the digression.
Pugsley
Western Thunderer
Mick, it's nothing to do with the framework behind the grilles, there are two different styles of refurbished nose grille, one has a central vertical channel, which I believe to be the original type and one doesn't, which I believe are new ones made during the refurbishment program.
These pictures from Brian Daniels show the two different types on 37 612.
1. The original type with central vertical channel:
http://www.flickr.com/photos/brianews/5861403518/sizes/o/in/set-72157626899648349/
2. The replacement type without:
http://www.flickr.com/photos/brianews/5860851409/sizes/o/in/set-72157626899648349/
Type 1 again:
http://realrail.smugmug.com/Trains/37401-restoration-at-Boness/i-JBQxCjP/0/XL/SAM_1968-XL.jpg
Type 2 again (couldn't find close-up of this type):
http://ukrailwaypics.smugmug.com/UKRailwayPics/Ex-BR-Diesel-loco-classes/Class-37-1/i-9ZmFj2p/XL
All of the pictures in your previous post are of 37/4's, which do have the same type, with the vertical channel, at each corner. JLTRT supply ends for this variant, but I don't think they do the other style of grille.
What is interesting is the effect that the framing behind does have on the airflow and the depositing of grime on the grilles, which is something that I'd never noticed before. I may have to revisit that area on my model of '415!
These pictures from Brian Daniels show the two different types on 37 612.
1. The original type with central vertical channel:
http://www.flickr.com/photos/brianews/5861403518/sizes/o/in/set-72157626899648349/
2. The replacement type without:
http://www.flickr.com/photos/brianews/5860851409/sizes/o/in/set-72157626899648349/
Type 1 again:
http://realrail.smugmug.com/Trains/37401-restoration-at-Boness/i-JBQxCjP/0/XL/SAM_1968-XL.jpg
Type 2 again (couldn't find close-up of this type):
http://ukrailwaypics.smugmug.com/UKRailwayPics/Ex-BR-Diesel-loco-classes/Class-37-1/i-9ZmFj2p/XL
All of the pictures in your previous post are of 37/4's, which do have the same type, with the vertical channel, at each corner. JLTRT supply ends for this variant, but I don't think they do the other style of grille.
What is interesting is the effect that the framing behind does have on the airflow and the depositing of grime on the grilles, which is something that I'd never noticed before. I may have to revisit that area on my model of '415!
mickoo
Western Thunderer
Well! That's a new one on me LOL Never spotted that over the years, amazing how one can spot the odd rivet or panel line out of alignment yet miss a bleeding great difference like that 
I will amend my notes accordingly and add those locos with those grills to my spreadsheet in due course
Never spotted that over the years, amazing how one can spot the odd rivet or panel line out of alignment yet miss a bleeding great difference like that I will amend my notes accordingly and add those locos with those grills to my spreadsheet in due course
tomstaf
Western Thunderer
Hi,
For reference, Laurie's got back to me. JLTRT do the 3 types of grills (Long, short and divided). However, they don't do divided on one side of the cab and not on the other. So he offered an extra cab for me to cut the grills out so I can modify the other 2 cabs in the kit. That hopefully won't be too hard.
HTH for anyone thinking along the same lines when the come to order a JLTRT 37.
Cheers
Tom
PS The devil's in the detail!
For reference, Laurie's got back to me. JLTRT do the 3 types of grills (Long, short and divided). However, they don't do divided on one side of the cab and not on the other. So he offered an extra cab for me to cut the grills out so I can modify the other 2 cabs in the kit. That hopefully won't be too hard.
HTH for anyone thinking along the same lines when the come to order a JLTRT 37.
Cheers
Tom
PS The devil's in the detail!
tomstaf
Western Thunderer
Ressaldar
Western Thunderer
tomstaf
Western Thunderer
Hi Pugs,
No need for me having to do the flush front, all done for me by those nice people at JLTRT. Here's a pic showing the cab and the grills with the divider fresh out of the box today.
Cheers
Tom
Heather Kay
Western Thunderer
We can be quite disparaging about some manufacturers and their efforts, but you can't argue they can be pretty accommodating if you ask them nicely.
john lewsey
Western Thunderer
Hi Tom I hope that we can follow this build 
tomstaf
Western Thunderer
Hi Tom I hope that we can follow this build
Hi John,
Yes,
I shall be posting the build up on here in due course
.Cheers
Tom
john lewsey
Western Thunderer
Hi Tom what livery are you doing
John
John
tomstaf
Western Thunderer
Pugsley
Western Thunderer
Nice. I didn't realise that they did a flush front version, I don't think I've ever seen one built anywhere.
Dog Star
Western Thunderer
Hello Tom,
Son has been asking questions about the Cl.37/5 prototypes and I recalled this discussion about the grill panels. Just so I can be sure of what goes where are you able to post pictures of LH / RH of the cabs supplied with the kit and of the cabs provided subsequently?
If I have understood, you need to change the grills on the driver's side of each "original" cab and Laurie has sent one extra cab... how does that sort the driver's grills at both ends of the the engine?
thank you, Graham
Son has been asking questions about the Cl.37/5 prototypes and I recalled this discussion about the grill panels. Just so I can be sure of what goes where are you able to post pictures of LH / RH of the cabs supplied with the kit and of the cabs provided subsequently?
If I have understood, you need to change the grills on the driver's side of each "original" cab and Laurie has sent one extra cab... how does that sort the driver's grills at both ends of the the engine?
thank you, Graham