David Andrews 7mm Stanier 2 6 4 tank.

Discussion in 'Area 51' started by P A D, 9 February 2019.

  1. P A D

    P A D Western Thunderer

    I've wanted one of these since David Andrew first introduced the kit, but until recently, I've never been one for having more than one kit at a time. By the time I was in a position to buy one, David had cut back the availability to where you had to order 3 months in advance. Not my cup of tea to wait that long, so I bought the Gladiator L1 instead.

    Anyway, I knew a friend had bought one early doors after they were introduced, but subsequently lost his mojo, so I offered to take it off his hands at price paid if he was willing, which he was, so many thanks John. He'd also bought a number of extra castings from Laurie Griffin for which we agreed a price. I'm not sure how many I will use as the ones in the kit look good in the main, but we'll see. Here's what you get from Mr Andrews.
    The nickel silver etchings.

    And the brass. Difficult to photograph these shiny shiny things without getting your reflection in the shot. Handsome devil aren't I ? ;) 20190207_103419.jpg

    Here are the castings and other bits and bobs, as well as the Slaters wheel set and MSC motor/gearbox. The rolled boiler is also in this shot.

    Instructions are the usual text and exploded diagrams and although more than adequate, a bit of a come down after the dizzy heights of MOK and Finney 7. It all comes in a fold up box which I believe the finished model would fit, but which I won't be using it for. I've taken a shine to the ones from Ellis Clark and will be getting one of those in due course. In the meantime I've put the parts in the empty F7 A4 box, as this allows the castings etc to be stored in the lid, so you can get at the etchings in the bottom.

    I've read Roger Scanlon's build a couple of times and found it most useful, particularly the issues with the bunker beading and expansion link fouling the valance, which I will be watching out for.

    I have started accumulating refference works via Ebay and my brother has kindly bought me volume 5 of the books on LMS locos by Bob Essery and David Jenkinson. Happy days.

  2. warren haywood

    warren haywood Western Thunderer

    There you go mate, a little inspiration, not that you need it:),

    7DAA4DA2-97A8-4113-BD95-589D0BD304C5.jpeg 55BA2965-7161-4E50-B0C0-3CC719A2F8FB.jpeg BFBD2755-99F3-4D62-A753-8A8454718D08.jpeg
  3. Yorkshire Dave

    Yorkshire Dave Western Thunderer

    It really needs to be one of these :) - the 3 cylinder variant for the LT&S section. One of my grandfather's photo at Fenchurch St.

    Fenchurch Street.jpg
  4. dibateg

    dibateg Western Thunderer

    I have one of these kits in the cupboard, I shall watch with interest Peter!
    BR Tony likes this.
  5. P A D

    P A D Western Thunderer

    Superb Warren,
    Many thanks. I'll add them to the file with those downloaded from Roger Scanlon's build.

    You can never have too much inspiration and they might inspire Tony to get his finger out, as he made the same comment on Roger's thread about the one in his cupboard and it's still there.:)

    Come on Dave, I'm in Leeds so it's got to be a northern based engine. Haven't decided which one yet. I believe it could be built as a 3 cylinder variant as I think externaly they were identical, albeit I note in Rowledge's book that the 2 cylinder variants were an inch lower from rail to boiler centre. I doubt that you'd spot that in 7mm though.

    BR Tony, Peter Cross and Deano747 like this.
  6. y6tram

    y6tram Active Member

    This is the state of play with my attempt in building one of the above. Its an old Chowbent Castings kit. WP_20190211_20_25_01_Pro.jpg WP_20190211_20_25_15_Pro.jpg WP_20190211_20_25_01_Pro.jpg WP_20190211_20_25_01_Pro.jpg WP_20190211_20_25_15_Pro.jpg

    Attached Files:

    AJC, Rob Pulham, dibateg and 14 others like this.
  7. P A D

    P A D Western Thunderer

    Hi y6tram,
    Looks a nice tidy build. I didn't know Chowbent did a kit for this prototype. You should do a build thread as it would make a nice comparison.

    I built their Fowler 2 6 2 many years ago and it was a nice kit as I recall, although the axle hole spacing in the frames did not match the coupling rods.
    BR Tony and Andy Deane like this.
  8. Scanlon

    Scanlon Western Thunderer

    You will enjoy the David Andrews Stanier 2-6-4t. With your skills the bunker beading and the expansion link issues will quickly be dealt with.

    My next commission build is the David Andrews Fowler 2-6-4t with limousine cab, starting soon!

    P A D and BR Tony like this.
  9. P A D

    P A D Western Thunderer

    Hi Roger,
    Thanks for the kind words and for having documented your build on here. It allways helps to see another builder's efforts especially where one or two pitfalls are highlighted.

    Looking at prototype photos the tank beading is quite thick, so your solution of spreading the bunker looks like the way to go. It would seem that the beading is the correct width and the half etch recess is too narrow. On the expansion link, I was wondering if you set the running plate valance too far in, but I think there is a half etch groove to locate it, so maybe not. A bridge to cross later.

    Look forward to your Fowler 2 6 4 build. I built the Jim Maidment one for my brother some years back. It wasn't a bad kit, but I think the DA's one will be better.

    Anyway, I have made a modest start to the build and got the chassis onto the wheels.

    First up after decusping the frames was to laminate the driving wheel springs.

    The springs are made up from 3 laminates, the outer of which is part of the frames. Here's the simple "jig" I used to line up the 3 parts. Two lengths of rod were inserted in holes drilled in a piece of wood and the parts slotted between them and held while they were tack soldered at the top of the hangers. They were then clamped in the vice and the bottom edges soldered.

    Springs completed ready for cleaning up. 20190213_183332.jpg

    Here are the frames lined up in the Avonside jig for soldering.

    The inner sand boxes are part of the frames with fold up segment. However, after folding there was quite large gaps to fill between the segments. The front and rear axle bushes have been added and spaced out from the frames to take up the slack in the axles and avoid the need for washers. The middle axle has elongated holes for the bushes to allow some up and down movement.

    To bridge the gaps I first soldered two lengths of NS rod accross the frames.

    The middle sections were first cut with the slitting disc and then the remaining excess lengths were snipped off and cleaned up.

    Here are the frames with all the spacers in and the wheels added.

    The trickiest part was adding the filler tubes and lids to the inner sandboxes. The tubes are too short to hold when inserted through the holes in the frames, so I first soldered the lids in place so there was something to grip. It was still very difficult to hold them in place, so I soldered the top inner edges of the lids to the frames first, then soldered the bases of the tubes to the sandbox tops inside the frames. Got there in the ended but the atmosphere was a bit blue.


    As can be seen in the full view of the frames there is a big gap between the back of the spacer by the middle driving wheels and the spacer for mounting the rear bogie. This allows flexing in the frames, but there is a spare spacer that can be added later depending on the motor option. It may be that adding the rod for the break hangers will be sufficient to overcome the flexing, but we'll see.

    Much as I enjoyed the MOK approach to frame design, I prefer this more traditional format of simple slot and tab and half etch riveting, without the need for overlays. As long as the parts are accurately drawn and etched, it works just as well and is much simpler and quicker to build. It's a great shame that David Andrews has shut up shop.

  10. Dan Randall

    Dan Randall Western Thunderer

    Neat solution with the sandboxes. :thumbs:


    BR Tony likes this.
  11. P A D

    P A D Western Thunderer

    Thanks Dan.
    Not perfect, but good enough and from the side, who can tell. I thought about putting an overlay on and adding a back to make them whole, but then decided life's too short.
    BR Tony, Rob Pulham, 3 LINK and 2 others like this.
  12. P A D

    P A D Western Thunderer

    The centre bearings have now had a small recess drilled for locating the spring wire and the springs have been added from 0.7mm NS wire. The kit is designed for the centre axle to pivot via a central screw in the spacer above it, but I prefer to spring it. The spigots on the end of the springs locate in the recesses in the bearings, preventing them rotating and from falling out when the wheels are removed .

    There is no base for the ash pan in the kit, so I've added one cut from NS sheet. This is to prevent the frames being flexed rather than to improve the appearance as it's not visible on the rails. A start has also been made on adding the brake rigging.

    The cross beams and shackles have been assembled and the hangers laminated and fitted to the frames. The hanger brackets are soldered to the rod, but the hangers and cross beams are still loose pending the fitting of the pull rods. I can then line it all up and solder to fix.

    To further strengthen the frames, the remaining spacer had been fitted behind the rear axle and it's all quite rigid now.

    As is quite often the case with Slaters wheel, some of them were already rusting in the sealed packs. As an experiment I cleaned them up with a wire brush in the mini drill, then polished them with a felt pad and polishing wax. The same was done to the axles. When you rub up the wheels with a cloth afterwards, it leaves a thin film of wax behind and I want to see if this will keep the wheels rust free during the build. Probably not, but we'll see.

  13. Duncan Chandler

    Duncan Chandler Active Member

    need any photos of bits of them?
  14. y6tram

    y6tram Active Member

    As I am a fair way on with my build, and have not taken any photos until at this stage of the build, but a couple of photos for comparison of the chassis would be of interest WP_20190217_18_24_30_Pro.jpg WP_20190217_18_22_55_Pro.jpg
  15. P A D

    P A D Western Thunderer

    So back to the build after a trip to Berlin, but only a little progress has been made. Nothing untoward, but time has been lost moving my desk/work bench from my brother's small bedroom to his railway room. This means guests no longer have to sleep with the trains, and I get more space to work. In the small room I had one desk and lots of clutter, but now have two desks and less clutter. Not fully organised yet but much better.

    Anyway I've managed to fit more of the brake rigging which was quite time consuming for the progress made. Six pull rods needed laminating and cleaning up, which was not difficult but a little tedious.

    The rods are attached to the shackles on the cross beams with 0.7mm rod, which to aid fitting I used 1 long length pushed through both sides. Once soldered on the inside, the excess on the outside was snipped off.

    With the wheels on the hangers/brake blocks were spaced to clear the wheels and soldered in place. After removing the wheels to wash away excess flux I ran out of time, so further snipping of excess brass rod is required before cleaning up.

    Tedious though I found it to do, it goes together nicely and looks the part. I'll add some 16 BA nuts to the cross beam ends before snipping the excess rod.
  16. eastsidepilot

    eastsidepilot Western Thunderer

    I used a Chowbent kit to partly scratchbuild a 3 cyl. job,
    Ex L.M.S. Stanier 3 cyl. 2-6-4 4MT / B.R. 42513

    I'll watch your build of the D. Andrew's kit with interest Peter :thumbs:

  17. P A D

    P A D Western Thunderer

    Thanks for the link Col,

    Very nice conversion/scratch build. Shame your customer wanted it so grubby as they were very handsome engines and the BR lined black really suited them (when you can see it). Then again the customer is always right.
    BR Tony likes this.
  18. mickoo

    mickoo Western Thunderer

    Not quite ;) What you now have is two desks and 'more' clutter....or you will have shortly :p

    Nice build as well :thumbs:
  19. P A D

    P A D Western Thunderer

    Oh ye of little faith. :D
    BR Tony and Deano747 like this.
  20. eastsidepilot

    eastsidepilot Western Thunderer

    Apparently that was how he saw that particular loco just before it was withdrawn. I lived in the same road, once, to an ex L.T. & S. line B.R. fireman
    who told me they ran them into the ground at the end, they got the B.R. standards after and he reckoned they were like spaceship's in comparison.

    BR Tony likes this.