David Andrews 7mm Stanier 2 6 4 tank.

Discussion in 'Area 51' started by P A D, 9 February 2019.

  1. oldravendale

    oldravendale Western Thunderer

    I saw those standards, Col, when the LT & S was electrified - I seem to remember at Old Oak Common. They were indescribably filthy with white limescale streaks from every possible orifice. Shame I took no pictures.

    I suppose as it was the end of steam on that line no-one cared for the steamers at the end. It's a shame - they actually went on to provide further useful service, in Wales I seem to remember.

    (I'm aware that the manpower to keep the things clean at the end of steam simply wasn't there. It doesn't make it any less of a shame).


    PS - Should have said, filthy or not it's a lovely build. Memories......
  2. P A D

    P A D Western Thunderer

    A bit more progress on the brake rigging. 16BA nuts have been added to the bottom of the hangers and all the excess rodding has been snipped and tidied up. 20190225_133020.jpg



    The reversing shaft brackets have also been added, as have the sand valves to the inside sand boxes along with the lids and valves to the rearward cast sand boxes. One of the boxes has been epoxied in place, as the locating hole coincided with where the spring for the centre axle bearing is soldered. Note that the top of the front face of the sandbox is chamfered. This has to be done by the builder as the castings come with right angled edges. It is mentioned in the instructions, but I see that the builder of the model painted by Warren Haywood and shown earlier in the thread has missed this. Or maybe some had square top corners, but I would have to check. Here's the left hand reversing shaft bracket. I see that I have missed decusping the top edge of the middle spring. 20190225_215054.jpg

    And the right hand side with the sandbox fitted.

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  3. P A D

    P A D Western Thunderer

    The left hand sandbox is now epoxied onto the frame and I moved on to the pony truck.

    The front truck goes together easily with only the springs taking time to laminate and clean up. There are no castings for the axle boxes and horn guides ,so I'll have to see if I can find some that are suitable as the frames are quite narrow and the gap between them and the wheels quite large. The bearings are fitted in reverse on the inside of the bogie frames, but the amount of side play in the axle is still way too much. I've added some spare brass bearings rather than washers for now to take up the slack and the guard iron on the left has been adjusted since the photo.

    And a couple of further views. Parts for fitting AWS are included but I need to check when this was fitted.

    It's quite a simple construction as can be seen.

    And fitted to the chassis. 20190226_180128.jpg


  4. P A D

    P A D Western Thunderer

    Looking at the pony truck arrangement drawing for the Fowler 2 6 4, the Andrew's pony design would suggest they were more or less the same. I had some spare Ragstone BR bogie castings so decided to use two of them to represent the missing axlebox/horn guides. As can be seen, the drawing is erroneously labelled as the Bogie arrangement.

    The castings needed reaming to fit over the axle bushes and one soldered in place the extra axle brushes are inserted before fitting the wheels.

    As mentioned, this negates the need to add 3 or 4 washers to take up the slack. A representation of the horn keeps has been added from NS rod and spare fret.

    Unlike the MOK 4MT pony, there is a distinct lack of detail provided in the kit, but this does not concern me as long as it passes muster from normal viewing angles when on the rails.

    And fixed to the chassis. I will fill some of the space between the pony truck frames with lead to increase the weight on the wheels to aid running.


  5. P A D

    P A D Western Thunderer

    Here are the parts for the bogie prepped for soldering. It took longer to get to here than put them altogether because of the number of edges that needed decusping. I added the two spare BR axle box castings from Ragstone to the rear, as they ca be seen when viewed from the rear.c

    Here it is completed. Two points to note are that the bogie retaining pivot is too large in diameter to fit in the spacer hole, or slot if you elongate it for more sideways movement. I didn't spot it until it was assembled, but it was easy enough to widen in-situe. Secondly, the slots in the bolster etch which are supposed to locate onto the tabs on the upper edges of the frames (see the first photo), are set too far apart and won't fit. The easiest way out of jail was to snip and file the tabs flush. I'll fill in the slots later.


    And located in the chassis.


    I think I'll move on to the upper works next, now that I have a rolling chassis.

    I had the opportunity to drop into the NRM yesterday and took a couple of hundred shots of the the preserved 3 cylinder version, 2500. Lots of differences I know, but also a lot in common. Here are a few detail shots of the pony and bogie. This large frame spacer is quite prominent so I'll have to knock that up.
    View attachment 99864

    The shackles for the spring hangers are different to those on the model, which are the same as the ones on the Fowler 2 6 4. No idea which is correct.

    The rear bogie axlebox. Looks like the AWS was at the rear. The kit provides if for attachment to the pony, but it wasn't fitted to the 2 cylinder types until after 1960, so not relevant to my model.




    This is the front of the bogie. One assumes this is the condition in which it was preserved with only the exterior being spruced up for display.


    Attached Files:

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  6. P A D

    P A D Western Thunderer

    Ps. Just came across this on Steamline. Looks nice but the builder has got the bogie spring on the outside of the equalising beams, when it should be between them.
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  7. P A D

    P A D Western Thunderer

    Been looking at prototype photos of the class and it is clear that the spring hanger arrangement as in the kit, is incorrect and it should be the same as on 2500. I wonder who does LMS pony truck springs and hangers? Something to search for at Kettering.

    As far as I can discern on the 2 cylinder variants, the works plates were only ever fitted to the front of the frames above the running plate and not on the tank sides as per the model of 2449 above.
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  8. Len Cattley

    Len Cattley Western Thunderer

    Does MOK do a Pony truck?

  9. daifly

    daifly Western Thunderer

  10. Len Cattley

    Len Cattley Western Thunderer

  11. P A D

    P A D Western Thunderer

    First up a quick adjustment of the bogie pivot screw by removing and elongating the hole. Now centered and a scale 6' 6" between rear driver and front bogie wheels. Job's a good un.

    Before moving on to the running plate I decided to fold up and solder the cylinders. They come as a single etch for the top plate, front and rear plates and wrapper. Quite a nice idea.

    After folding the front and rear plates, I used some 6BA bolts, nuts and washers to act as spacers to prevent them from flexing whilst folding and soldering the wrappers.

    Here they are after soldering and cleaning up.

    And in the frames.

    I then made a start on the running plate. Here is the mid section tacked to the valances.

    And on some 1/4 inch plate glass to check that all is square.

    And after tacking the front portion on.

    And sat on the frames.


    Attached Files:

  12. warren haywood

    warren haywood Western Thunderer

    That workbench is way too tidy:confused:
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  13. P A D

    P A D Western Thunderer

    Only because I've cropped the image and all the clutter is out of shot. :D
    SimonME30 likes this.
  14. P A D

    P A D Western Thunderer

    Next, the rear section of the running plate was tack soldered onto the valances.

    It was all nice and square but I decided to add the buffer beams before seam soldering the whole lot.
    Here's one of the buffer stocks and head before fettling up. The heads have square shanks to keep the oval heads parallel in the stock, which have a square hole to insert them into. After fettling I tapped the ends 10 BA to about 3mm so a nut could be fitted to retain them.

    The buffer beams are made up from 2 laminates plus an overlay for the coupling hook slot. Here they are ready to be fitted to the running plate. It's much easier to fit the buffers at this stage rather than later in the build as per the instructions.

    And after fitting to the running plate. The frame extensions have also been added along with ghd central cover plate which is integral with the front of the smoke box saddle. The saddle sides are attached to the running plater and are folded up to match the front profile. 20190304_205801.jpg

    The cover between the frames needed some file work to fit it, but nothing untoward.

    All going together nicely so far.

  15. P A D

    P A D Western Thunderer

    I started the next stage of the body as per the instructions by prepping the cab front and tank/cab sides. However, I decided it would be easier to add most of the details at the front on the running plate while there were no boiler or tanks in the way.

    The instructions suggest adding the inspection covers with the hinges at the rear, but the on 2500, they are positioned with the hinges on the inner edge, so with no evidence to the contrary, I have assumed they would bd the same 9n the 2 cylinder machines.

    Right hand side on 2500. There is a stop between the hinges which is not on the etched lids. The hinges are a bit too wide to add the stop so I have ignored it.

    And the left hand side on 2500

    I have added the sandbox fillers but not the covers, as they need to rest against the boiler. Other details added are the basd of the steam pipes, steps on the drop plate, grab rails and lamp brackets on the running plate. The latter items are castings from Laurie Griffin.

    There is an oil box to go at the front edge either side of the smoke box saddle and these will also be added before the boiler. I may make the boiler detachable to aid painting, but we'll see how that pans out.

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  16. P A D

    P A D Western Thunderer

    Just found these on Warren Shephard's website. Stanier pony truck axlebox and springs on the Sanspareil page.

    New Page 1

    Just sent him an email and hopefully he has them in stock.
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  17. y6tram

    y6tram Active Member

    As can be seen from the photos below the large piece of brass in front of the loco is the jig that valance was attached to originally. After building the body you then cut the jig away, this was less of a fiddle than trying to solder the flimsy valance to the running plate. Although the valance on your kit does look thicker WP_20190306_001.jpg WP_20190306_20_14_14_Pro.jpg

    Thanks for posting pictures of the preserved loco at the NRM, as I was wanting to know where the oil pipes went, still its only seven miles away so a trip through to York will be on the cards.


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  18. P A D

    P A D Western Thunderer

    Hi Alan,
    You're welcome. If you need any further pics before you get to the NRM , just shout. Yes, the valances on the DA kit are quite thick nickel silver. There is a half etch groove in the running plate parts and it all went together quite nicely and square.

    Deviating from the order in the instructions, I made up the boiler and firebox. Here are the firebox parts laid out ready for soldering. It's a classic Andrews/Gladiator design, with four spacers screwed into holes in the front and rear plates to line them up. The wrapper is then added (annealed first) and centralised against index marks, then soldered at the top edges, before rolling around the shoulders on a piece of wood and soldering the sides. I soldered a nut to the inside of the rear plate so that it ca be screwed to the cab front.

    Here it is after soldering , ready for the screwed in spacers to be removed.

    The front plate is a 2 piece laminate with a recess for the wrapper to sit in. To beef up the joint to allow the shoulder curves to be filed in, I added some thick copper wire. The box was soldered using 220 C solder and the copper wire added with 145 C and flooded.

    And after filing the curve at the shoulders. More work is needed but I left if for now. That is not a gap, just the way the light is reflecting. As can be seen, I have scribed a line to represent the joint in the cladding.

    A start has also been made on the boiler.

    And the cab front, firebox and boiler screwed together. Looks good. A line has has also been scribed for the cladding joint. 20190306_192849.jpg

    And lastly, the rivet fest in preparation for adding the tank and cab sides.

    Last edited: 7 March 2019
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  19. P A D

    P A D Western Thunderer

    I had a bit of a delay in fitting the tanks, as I decided to deviate from the instructions and add the tank front details whilst still flat. There are two oil boxes, a foot step and a rivet strip which must be a pig to fit and clean up with the tanks on the running plate. However, fitting the oil boxes was delayed by having to modify the castings and then losing one in the carpet void.

    Here's the larger pair with the one on the left having had the overly large hinge filled off. The pipe unions are also miss cast and impossible to drill to fit the oil pipes, so they were also filled off.

    Below on the left are the original castings after filing off the hinges. Lower right are two spares from the MOK 4MT kit. Above them is the other 4 feed oil box after filing to reduce the size nearer to the MOK ones.

    Here they are after fitting and with the oil pipes, foot step and rivet strip added.

    Here the cab front, tank/cab sides, inner tank/front and tank tops have been fitted to the running plate. Further cleaning of excess solder will be done later.

    And from the other side.

    And a quick trial with the boiler and fire box screwed in. 20190307_190906.jpg

    In this broadside view it's clear that the boiler is not sitting down correctly. There is a spacer near the front end that needs a curve filing on the top edge and then it should be fine. I'll do that after I have made and screwed on the smoke box.

    And from the other side. The sides are designed with slits and tabs and it all fits nicely.

    Last edited: 7 March 2019
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  20. P A D

    P A D Western Thunderer

    Many thanks Larry. A nice clean brass model does look the business, but only for five minutes, then it's all down hill to tarnish city.

    So I got the smoke box punched, rolled and soldered. I added a piece of spare etch on the inside, then drilled a hole and tapped it 10BA. The large hole is to clear the 6BA nut on the smoke box saddle.

    Here it is with the front ring push and door pushed in. Both can still be removable at this stage.

    A hole has been drill in thr saddle ahead of the 6BA body retaining nut. This allows the smoke box to be screwed in place with a 10 BA bolt.

    Here ar the three part screwed together and on the chassis. I have now filed the top of the chassis spacer that was fouling the boiler so it now sits down properly.

    There is still excess solder go scrape off it I'll get to that later.

    The smoke box is a nice fit on the saddle but still needs a big of tweeking to close some slight gaps.

    The front edge needs a big of work and filler is maybe the best option, but that means permanently fixing the boiler in place. That said, I don't think that having it removable brings much benefit at the painting stage with this prototype. We'll see. It will be a handsome beast when it's done.

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