David Andrews Castle Build

Discussion in 'Workbenches, including workshop techniques.' started by Focalplane, 4 April 2019.

  1. Dan Randall

    Dan Randall Western Thunderer

    Hi Paul

    I just used some Brasso wadding and buffed it up afterwards with some kitchen towel. :)



  2. Focalplane

    Focalplane Western Thunderer

    Well, I am finished for the day and will drive over to Leroy Merlin to buy various DIY supplies for both railway and house. It has been raining for much of the day - it doesn't happen very often and cleans up the "merde des chiens" efficiently so actually most welcome. This explains the activity on the Castle and the multiple posts. Here is one more.

    Five photos that tell the story. The boiler has been soldered and cleaned as has the smokebox, which also needed rolling. The front ring of the smokebox is white metal and a tight fit. I may use CA glue on it. The kit suggests that a ~3mm diameter rod should be used to line up the cab front, firebox, boiler and smokebox (this appears in all four David Andrews kits I have). I have taped the boiler to the smokebox to check for alignment which appears to be satisfactory. No additional soldering is anticipated today, my fingers are complaining.





  3. Focalplane

    Focalplane Western Thunderer

    Thanks, Dan. Unfortunately I can't find Brasso, but most products of this type have their own French brands. Brass = laiton in French so Brasso doesn't mean much here. And, I got sidetracked while shopping and forgot to ask.

    Although the instructions don't suggest it, I am thinking of attaching the boiler and firebox bands next while I have easier access.

    Edit to add that Amazon.fr sells Brasso! No doubt from the UK so I ordered some.
    Last edited: 10 September 2019
    P A D and Dan Randall like this.
  4. Focalplane

    Focalplane Western Thunderer

    A little more progress today and a convenient place to stop as I have had some other priorities assigned. The boiler and smokebox were first joined together and then several bands were soldered to them. Next the brass rod was employed to line everything up, remembering to align the boiler with the chimney and dome along the top axis! The join between firebox and boiler looked like it was not going to be perfect but fortunately there is a boiler band covering a few gaps in the join. The red areas on the boiler are reflecting the orange/red sun shade shielding the table from what has become a sunny day.


    There are several areas of solder that need to be removed along the boiler bands (and elsewhere!) but they can wait a while. The engine is resting on my next project - upholstering two bar stools with new material.

    Spurred on by LarryG's progress on Corwen Junction I will also be starting on the scenic backdrop for Moor Street. The baseboards have been cleared of all loose material so that I can reach the walls. In hindsight I should have painted the panels earlier but the urge was to get the track laid first.
    Pencarrow, mickoo, LarryG and 7 others like this.
  5. Focalplane

    Focalplane Western Thunderer

    While waiting for Moor Street’s back scene to dry I started on the Castle’s tender. The chassis is straight forward and I am adopting the simple floating central axle approach.

    Normally I build the tender first but for some reason long forgotten I didn’t on this kit.
  6. Focalplane

    Focalplane Western Thunderer

    The tender chassis is complete and tested. The wheels and axles are back in their plastic bag and the floating centre axle bearings are with them.


    Next the tender body will be started though I have not forgotten the loco boiler and firebox which needs a few more fittings attached.

    At lunchtime La Poste delivered a package of brick papers, etc. from Kirtley Model Buildings (Peter Smith) . They look very good and now I can start to experiment a bit on some of the background buildings which will be two dimensional (like stage flats).

    However, this has to wait because I am not happy with the back scene sky which took a couple of hours late last evening to paint and spray. If you like abstract art then you would appreciate my efforts. However I don't like it at all so, I'm going to start all over again!
    Pencarrow and Phil O like this.
  7. Focalplane

    Focalplane Western Thunderer

    And so, on to the tender body:


    A lot of outside soldering is necessary which still needs a lot of cleaning up. The flare is small, fortunately, and the upper top sides are yet to be fitted. It's coming together nicely though I doubt it will be finished by tea time!
    Deano747, GrahameH, Pencarrow and 3 others like this.
  8. LarryG

    LarryG Western Thunderer

    It's funny how threads build up. They are often several days old by the time I spot them. Good work, you're a fast worker.
    Focalplane likes this.
  9. Focalplane

    Focalplane Western Thunderer

    A bit more progress on the tender this evening after which I realized that a lot of the visible solder alluded to earlier won’t be quite as visible as I had thought, particularly if the tender holds a lot of coal. The most awkward details at the moment are the strengtheners for the tops of the tender sides. A bit of a pig’s breakfast at the moment but tomorrow may see more progress in the right direction.

    The kit comes with white metal castings for the tender axle boxes and springs. I think brass castings would look much better, and Warren Shephard has some on his web site. I’ll give him a call.
  10. simond

    simond Western Thunderer

    Those stiffeners are a definite case for a resistance iron.

  11. Focalplane

    Focalplane Western Thunderer


    I am sure you are right, but as I have about a dozen soldering irons and stations I am reluctant to add another one to the collection. However, what would you recommend?

    I have just ordered the brass castings from Warren.

  12. simond

    simond Western Thunderer

    Hi Paul

    I built my resistance iron some years back - Maplin used to do a "transformer kit" which had a pre-wound primary, and a set of soft iron cores in "E" and "I" shapes. I wound the secondary from some very substantial varnished copper wire, fitted it in a box and put a big DPST button on top, which applied 240V to the primary.

    I tried to wind the secondary to give three output levels and one common - actually, I almost always use it on "max", and vary the time - it lives on the floor and I switch it with my left big toe.

    Electrodes are copper-plated carbon - I made a holder originally, but then discovered a commercial one, fitted with silicone insulated leads, and treated myself.

    typical electrodes Parweld Arc Air Gouging Carbons | Tools Today

    I think the electrode holder is this one, the unit is a commercial version of my DIY effort!

    Resistance Soldering Unit | London Road Models

    usual disclaimers of course

    Some other thoughts - solder a whopping great wire to the assembly, where the solder won't show, and use this as the earth. Also make up some brass clamps so if you clamp an earth onto a model, it doesn't mark it. Get two carbon electrodes for those jobs where an earth is not convenient or a pair of tweezers (google them - haven't yet got these myself) Sharpen the electrodes with a pencil sharpener. Use solder paint.

    Last edited: 16 September 2019
  13. Dan Randall

    Dan Randall Western Thunderer

    I bought a "never been used" London Road Models RSU secondhand for £80 several years ago and have found it invaluable for certain jobs. :thumbs:


    Phil O and Focalplane like this.
  14. Focalplane

    Focalplane Western Thunderer

    Simon, Dan

    Thank you for your responses. I am getting on with the strengtheners with more elbow grease than ought to be necessary. I have to admit I don’t do well with solder paint. I don’t know why. The butane torch is much more of a friendly tool for me to work with which may seem strange to many. The knack is to work the flame carefully and flow the excess solder away from the join to be filed or scratched off later - hence the elbow grease!

    One side is almost done though I have been doing other things most of today, including some relaxation on my “Knees Up Paddle” board. The sea had a strange swell from a distant storm which was fun. I also thought to fill the tank up on my car after the weekend’s event in Saudi Arabia. I am going to Montpellier later in the week and have a shopping list for FB Systems in Bessan. No, I am not switching to HO!

    I watched Tony Wright’s promotional video for Hattons LNER pacifics last night. Interesting point of view that Gauge O is expensive compared to OO/HO. Given the number of complete trains at Little Bytham I would have thought the opposite applies!
    Pencarrow and 3 LINK like this.
  15. LarryG

    LarryG Western Thunderer

    Hattons have had the O gauge A3 running on Peco's 3' 5" radius curves. That will no doubt please a lot of folk. Nylon slidebars is interesting.
  16. Focalplane

    Focalplane Western Thunderer

    The Brasso arrived today:


    I wasn't going to show the tender just yet, but after a quick going over with the Brasso, here is an update:


    Part of the reason for taking the photo was that I can then examine it for future work! There's quite a lot to do before I move on to the next piece of instruction. That can wait, I'm off to the beach again for an hour or two and a pique-nique, the Indian Summer is proving to be very pleasant.
    Last edited: 18 September 2019
    Deano747, GrahameH and Dan Randall like this.
  17. simond

    simond Western Thunderer

    I think the "0 Gauge is Expensive" argument is generally false. Of course a larger model costs more than a smaller one, but if you consider a given area of baseboard, you could have a sleepy BLT in 0 or a major city terminus in N. I suspect the latter would be more expensive. So £/sq ft, I'd guess that larger scales are actually cheaper.

    And if you kit or scratch build rather than buy RTR, then in any given lifetime, there are only so many kits you can reasonably build *. I'm less sure of the comparative time to build a detailed kit in 2 or 4mm compared to 7mm, it'll be less, but probably not as much less as the area comparison - so the £ / hr comparison is probably more or less evens.

    The argument is true of course if you simply buy stuff to put in a cupboard or on display.

    * "SABLE" - Stash Acquired Beyond Life Expectancy - common problem for many hobbies...

    I looked up the MSDS for Brasso, it appears to be Oleic acid and Ammonium hydroxide with some abrasives (kaolin and silica) in a petroleum carrier. Probably easier to just get Brasso...

    it's probaby too late to wish you Bon Appetit..
    GrahameH and Pencarrow like this.
  18. Focalplane

    Focalplane Western Thunderer

    Back from the beach and a final scrub on the tender before starting to add more parts:


    It probably won't look this nice for quite a while! In the background, by the way, is my attempt at the Moor Street summer sky.
    Deano747, michl080, GrahameH and 2 others like this.
  19. Focalplane

    Focalplane Western Thunderer

    I have been comparing the instructions for the two (identical prototype) kits for the 4,000 gallon tender, one the David Andrews, one the Finney 7. The two models will end up being very similar but the means to the end can be a little different. A case in point is the tender side straps or strengtheners. On the Finney 7 kit the straps are already fixed to the tender top plate. I am looking forward to see how that improves (and speeds up) the build of the Hall's tender.

    It's also interesting how times change with respect to copyright. David does not want me to quote his instructions beyond making my own comments. Given the times he worked up his kits I think this is understandable. By contrast Finney 7 publish their instructions, presumably as an inducement to sell their kits.

    My first two kits in 7mm scale were from Connoisseur (Jim McGowen) and I will be honest about the reason I chose them - Jim publishes his instructions for all the world to see. As an introduction to 7mm scale Jim's kits are marvelous - the only reason I have only built the Jinty and 4F is that everything else that Jim has designed are of less interest to me.
    Len Cattley, michl080 and Pencarrow like this.
  20. LarryG

    LarryG Western Thunderer

    All the scales from Z to whatever have a place and it all boils down to what one wants from the model railway hobby. When I returned to modelling for myself a few years ago, OO r-t-r was chosen. I would spend months on making a reasonable scene and pretend I was looking at a model of the real thing. It worked fine until a train was placed on the track, then the illusion was shattered. The layout looked better without trains!

    O gauge is a totally different thing. It's big, its heavy and it has 'mass', and I would not call it a toy in the true sense of the word. I prefer to spend £250+ on 7mm model than £150+ on a 4mm model full of compromises to suit 4' 1½" OO gauge track. To my eyes, whatever I did in 4mm looks better in 7mm and that for me is real value for money and the real value of 0 gauge.

    Apologies for the slight shunt into a siding Paul.
    michl080, GrahameH, Ressaldar and 3 others like this.