Scattergun DCC locos

[mickoo]

Not sure if this should go here, but here goes, I've just acquired my first sound fitted DCC loco, I knew before I got it there might be some issues, the description was sound but no movement and on DC no movement at all.....but I kinda expected that last bit LOL, having said that, the box and instructions do say it is a dual voltage loco with auto detection?

The issue is, trying to learn Multimaus (MM) at the same time as fix a DCC loco, always a good recipe for disaster I know. At the moment MM seems to be playing ball but the loco does not, I think the fundamental problem I've got is the lack of an address and I'm guessing it's the road number but that's not happening.

So, is there a way to read the DCC code for the loco if the number is lost forever, the 'source' can't remember what code they used to test before selling.

The next step is to bypass the DCC board and hot wire for direct DC, to check the motor and drive train, I suspect the DCC board is toast myself, which is a shame, but the model is much nicer than I envisaged and once I find the correct paint will be in the shops for a repaint.

Thanks in advance, Mick

 

[Steph Dale]

The MultiMaus cannot read CVs in its standard form. However, if it's connected to one of the later Lenz command stations (e.g. LZV101) then it can.

Does that help your decision?

Steph

 

[mickoo]

Steph, kinda figured it was a read only set up I had, it's not an issue as it was cheap and a basically a foothold into DCC and something to play with. I am planing to move to the deeper end of the pool in due course, but first things first

I've 'surfed' around and basically cannot even alter the address CV, it comes up with ERR1 so I reckon the chip is knackered.

The DCC chip board seems to be piggy backed onto a carrier board which the incoming supply feeds into, motor out, lights out etc and I kinda hoped it would work on DC with the chip board removed, with directional lights only or something, but it's not to be.

Hot wired as a straight DC machine and it runs beautifully, it's done some miles as the nickle silver/chrome plating on the wheel treads has worn right through to the copper/brass? wheel underneath.

Overall I'm happy, even if it requires a new sound chip, it's still a bargin, better yet, I can scale off this for CAD duplicates....which is the primary reason I bought it and once finished flog it on, but it's so nice I'm going to keep it

 

[Steph Dale]

Steph, kinda figured it was a read only set up I had, it's not an issue as it was cheap and a basically a foothold into DCC and something to play with. I am planing to move to the deeper end of the pool in due course, but first things first

I've 'surfed' around and basically cannot even alter the address CV, it comes up with ERR1 so I reckon the chip is knackered.

The DCC chip board seems to be piggy backed onto a carrier board which the incoming supply feeds into, motor out, lights out etc and I kinda hoped it would work on DC with the chip board removed, with directional lights only or something, but it's not to be.

Not quite - the MM is write-only for programming. the reason you're getting an error is that it won't read. In terms of your 'deeper end', just be aware that the MM handset is one of the most advanced controllers around. It's held back by the command station box, so your 'dive' might just be as simple as buying a Lenz command station. I'm running exactly this system and have kept the original base unit for use on a test track, which it's fine for.

Steph

 

[richard carr]

Mick

You need a SPROG and Decoder Pro that will tell you everything about your decoder.

I have one knocking about somewhere if you want to borrow it.

Richard

 

[mickoo]

Not quite - the MM is write-only for programming. the reason you're getting an error is that it won't read. In terms of your 'deeper end', just be aware that the MM handset is one of the most advanced controllers around. It's held back by the command station box, so your 'dive' might just be as simple as buying a Lenz command station. I'm running exactly this system and have kept the original base unit for use on a test track, which it's fine for.

Steph

I get the error when I try to program CV1, not trying to read anything as far as I'm aware?

I thought the MM controller was for roundy roundy carpet train sets?

One thing I did want to do in the future was fiddle with sounds and settings and sort of decided on the Loksound system where you can download sounds and alter things, no idea what's needed for any of that at the moment.

Moving one small step on, I'm going to guess that the MM handset just plugs into the Lenz command station, does that then plug into the MM base unit or do you just plug your MM handset into the MM base unit to 'play' rather than code, you'll have to excuse my ignorance, many things I get, but this DCC (and Templot, re other thread LOL) I do not! Scary considering I program 2500T container cranes for a living

Best, Mick

 

[mickoo]

Mick

You need a SPROG and Decoder Pro that will tell you everything about your decoder.

I have one knocking about somewhere if you want to borrow it.

Richard

Richard, that'd be great, but in my hands, at the moment they would be about as useful are a chocolate fireguard LOL, I'm going to guess you plug the chip into one one or the other and then code or do something with the other one, does either involve a PC. My level of DCC intelligence is along the lines of red + yellow = orange and 1+1=2

I do 'really really really' need to sort some more pressing stuff out first before I take on anything new as a serious venture, and I suspect DCC can get quite in depth.

John Birch did mention my coming to yours to help with a working party, it might pay to bring the offending item there then, I will take it to Sudbury and see what the collective has to say and to put it on Love Lane, Peter will go apocalyptic when he see's it, GE it certainly is not LOL

In the mean time I'll allot some time to research SPROGs and decoder Pros, so at least I can 'pretend' I know what I'm talking about.

 

[richard carr]

Mick

All the details are here

http://www.sprog-dcc.co.uk/

Basically a SPROGG is the same as a LOK programmer but covers all types of decoder, it does nothing on its own you need a PC that has decoder pro on it. The SPROGG is the hardware that turns computer commands into DCC ones. Decoder pro is free software program that some folk in the states have put together and there is other software for controlling your layout with a computer (it gets even more complicated but it is all free !).

DCC can be relatively simple but he sad fact is that to get the best from it you need to invest some time and money, I have chosen to go down the Loksound route but it is seriously expensive, all those 9 diesels in my recent photos are sound equipped at a cost of over £1,500 and countless hours getting them all working properly. They do work well now but it is only in the last 3 months that I have really achieved that.

You are more than welcome to borrow the SPROGG I don't use it anymore, I can either give it John Birch or you can pick it up the next time we have a Sunday work day (but I'm not sure when that is going to be yet it might be 12th July). DCC works but what we really want is battery powered DCC with radio signals, then there is no power in the track and we still get all the sounds that we want. Its coming but it could be a couple of years yet.
At least now we have wireless DCC.

Richard.

 

[Steph Dale]

Mick,

I assume you're referring to this:


Which is, as I say, a very powerful handset...

The SPROG, by the way, is just a serial interface box that allows you to connect your PC (with pretty much any operating system), running a free Java app called JMRI to your DCC decoder. It has a few limitations, but it's also great at being able to convert (by either reading or writing) 'I want light number two on function number three to come on when I'm going forwards' into and out of the CVs on your decoder. For that reason it's priceless.

Steph

 

[mickoo]

Steph,

Yes that's the one, didn't pay very much for it, it was part of a train set package, it even came in the train set box, all be it carved up and made a bit smaller, when I ripped the packaging off I though I'd got a Roco V160 and three coaches with the controller LOL.

Richard,

Cheers, I'll look into this Sprogg thingy, if I could borrow yours that'd be handy and if your happy to let John bring it to Sudbury that'd be great. I know what you mean about cost but I want good sound on this engine, that's another reason I've been after one of these for so long, my only issue now is finding either a replacement QSi chip or finding another Europe based one with associated sounds and as far as I can see, Loksound is the only one where you can adjust sounds and blend/sort them....I think.

Best, Mick

 

[Steph Dale]

Mick,
If it's QSI I bet the decoder is just locked out of drive. I'll have to remind myself what to do, but it's just button possess on the handset, not CVs. Give me a day or two...
Steph

 

[mickoo]

Mick,
If it's QSI I bet the decoder is just locked out of drive. I'll have to remind myself what to do, but it's just button possess on the handset, not CVs. Give me a day or two...
Steph

Really, that'd be great if it is just a software glitch, when it runs on DC with the chip installed it just releases the brakes and sits there, I'm presuming that on DC it'll do that and rev the engine up but none of the other F functions work. At least the speaker works and as I said hot wired direct to the motor it all works mechanically just fine. Look forward to what you can dig up

All the best, Mick

 

[Steph Dale]

Not a software glitch, a 'feature'.

At this point I'm going to venture that you're not a big fan of manuals. If you were you'd probably have already come across the paragraphs on the start - up and shut - down sequence in the QSI get-you-going manual. I can't remember what function key to press, but basically you need to repeat press to get from idle, through muted, through static to drive. It works pretty well once you've remembered /found out what key to press!

Steph

 

[mickoo]

Not a software glitch, a 'feature'.

At this point I'm going to venture that you're not a big fan of manuals. If you were you'd probably have already come across the paragraphs on the start - up and shut - down sequence in the QSI get-you-going manual. I can't remember what function key to press, but basically you need to repeat press to get from idle, through muted, through static to drive. It works pretty well once you've remembered /found out what key to press!

Steph

Steph,

I love manuals LOL but sadly do not have one for the QSI part of the model, some basic model details and default function settings but nowt on the QSI in detail. I'll dig around and see what I can find. Thanks for the heads up, hope it fixes it

 

[mickoo]

Quick whizz on the web reveals double pressing F9 induces several steps of shut down into what eventually is a coma. Double pressing F6 wakes it up, that would explain the original fault where it made sound but did not move it doesn't explain why I cant program CV1 so it'll be more playing tonight as I couldn't even get any sounds from it which is probably more to do with my ineptitude with the MM

 

[Kylestrome]

This might be a silly question, but have you tried the default address 0003?

 

[mickoo]

This might be a silly question, but have you tried the default address 0003?

I have, as well as 0001, 0005 and 3704 the road number, however, reading the QSI document it looks like you can only program upto three digits so 3704 wouldn't work. There are no direct manuals for this particular chip, it appears to be a bespoke one to fit only this range of locos, I've found a wiring diagram but no tech docs.....yet....the search continues, so am running with the QSI bible that's supposed to cover all chips from N to G scale.

It looks like when the loco is in coma mode then you can't really do a lot with it, none of the F functions work but the instructions are not clear about whether you can still talk to it or program a new CV1 address. I suspect the wake up command will only work once you have selected the right loco, which means finding the CV1 address and you can't change it until you've woken it up

I suppose this is the problem when buying second hand, you've no idea what the previous owner has programmed or set up, the loco does have a reset to factory default reed switch under the bonnet so that might be a last resort.

All the best, Mick

 

[InvernessTMD]

Mick, If you get really stuck remember I'm only in Ipswich and I have Decoder Pro and a SPROG... I also have a MM which I love using

 

[JimG]

I suppose this is the problem when buying second hand, you've no idea what the previous owner has programmed or set up, the loco does have a reset to factory default reed switch under the bonnet so that might be a last resort.

Mick,

Once you get your hands on DecoderPro with Sprog (or in my case with an NCE PowerCab), I think I remember that you can set DecoderPro to read the loco address and all the CV's in a chip - so you should be able to find out the correct address.

Once you run the program, you'll see why it, or something like it, is virtually essential for programming chips with lots of CVs - like sound chips. I installed a Tsunami in an S scale GP9 and I'm still occasionally tinkering with it after three years using Decoderpro. The manual is about 200 pages long.


Jim.

 

[Steph Dale]

Programming on QSI sometimes won't work reliably as they need a fair bit of power. Might just be a compatibility problem.

But 4-digit addressing should be fine, I've got a few QSI-fitted locos with 4-digit addressing. If you decide to keep with the QSI decoder it might be worth checking what chip set you've got, the later ones give much better running than those before version 6 (IIRC!).

Steph