7mm Dikitriki's Dark side: A WD 2-8-0

7mmMick

Western Thunderer
Richard,

Looking good ;) Be carefully running brown and grey wagons together, my 'basic' understanding is that colour is something to do with the brakes or brakes fitted so trains tend to be all brown, all grey or split in uniform blocks.

I think brown is vacuum braked and grey is un-braked so everything after a grey wagon will not form part of the train braking, others more knowledgeable may be able to help, it's just something to perhaps consider when making your trains.

Apologies if you already knew this :thumbs:


Mick,

Although these rules do apply, brown=fitted, grey=un-fitted, they weren't always strictly adhered to. Certainly local pick ups were a mixture of all sorts and ran as loose coupled and certainly a lot of the early batches of steel bodied minerals (pre nationalisation) were treated in bauxite and were never vacuum braked. As for brake vans there seems to be far more fitted versions built than un-fitted and late fifties into the sixties fitted Bv's were regularly seen on un-fitted trains.

ATB Mick
 

Dikitriki

Flying Squad
Hi Richard,

As you say though, a long train of these whizzing by

ATB Mick

Whizzing? Whizzing?

We don't whizz on Heyside....especially not on the minerals. At an exhibition, the slow trundling minerals, stopped at every signal, gives the operators a break:)

Thanks for the talc reminder, I'd forgotten about that one.

Cheers

Richard
 

7mmMick

Western Thunderer
:)) I've been spending too much time with Tony, all this GC talk of 9F's on windcutters and the like

ATB Mick :thumbs:
 

Mike Sheardown

Western Thunderer
........... At an exhibition, the slow trundling minerals, stopped at every signal, gives the operators a break:)


Well that might have been nice for your operators, but I bet the crew of the mineral were a bit hacked off :D

One of my favourite tales from the Vaughan books on his life as a signalman, was where a particular goods was always put inside the loop and stopped, in order to allow a following express to pass. This happened day after day, and week after week, and really used to upset the goods crew, as they would often end up being detained for some considerable time.

Anyway, one day, the express that usually followed this goods was delayed, and the goods was allowed to continue on the main line. So ecstatic was the driver at being able to run his train, that he put his cap down on the footplate floor, and jumped up and down on it out of sheer joy as he passed the box.

However, on seeing this, the signalman thought the driver was being sarcastic and taking the Mickey, so he belled ahead 7 - "Stop and Examine Train."

Poor old goods crew :headbang:

Cheers

Mike
 

7mmMick

Western Thunderer
:)) Mike,

That's a great tale, I too have enjoyed reading about the trials and tribulations of crews working coal trains from Hull to Gascogine Wood, who were on bonus work and we're regularly disappointed when given a Q5 but over the moon when they were given a more capable Q6. I think there is a general acceptance in the model railway world that all goods trains plod along and all shunt moves are slow and deliberate. However the more you read about how it really use to be the more you realise If you could get a goods train up to speed all you wanted to do was keep it there. And in between shunt move the shunting engine would move at pace to move around the yard, constantly breaking the yard speed limit !!

ATB Mick
 

Dikitriki

Flying Squad
Morning,

Next 2 wagons - the last 2 for a few days as I need to catch up with myself.

P1010600a.jpg

P1010603a.jpg

This is one of 3 bought from Ebay - 2 were nicely built, this one included, the third was a wreck. This is an ABS conflat A with a Slater's container I think. I have compensated the wagon as it had a pronounced wobble as built, repainted the wood decking as the original paint was lifting from the scribed plastic card, reworked the securing chains and weathered it.

P1010599a.jpg

This is a Parkside WR conflat A and container, for once built by me - one of my holiday wagons. Tony Geary painted and weathered it. I added the securing chains - aren't they a faff - and weathered it further.

P1010595a.jpg

Next up will either be 2 Freightman wagons, or 3 Peco minerals, depends what I feel like in the evenings, but give me a few days:)

Richard
 

oldravendale

Western Thunderer
Morning,

Next 2 wagons - the last 2 for a few days as I need to catch up with myself.

View attachment 36648

View attachment 36645

This is one of 3 bought from Ebay - 2 were nicely built, this one included, the third was a wreck. This is an ABS conflat A with a Slater's container I think. I have compensated the wagon as it had a pronounced wobble as built, repainted the wood decking as the original paint was lifting from the scribed plastic card, reworked the securing chains and weathered it.

Love the Conflat A and small container. I have one, but using the Parkside Conflat, which I bought part built at Guildex for about £15. It would have been rude to refuse. (I've already built the Parkside Conflat with large container and yes, the shackles and chains are a faff but don't they look superb when done properly?) This was built before my membership of WT which is why you've not seen the build - not that there was anything terribly original about it.

Love the weathering too. Perhaps I'm weakening and all my stuff may just have to come out of it's glass cases and be dropped in to a container of grubby thinners......:D

Brian
 

OzzyO

Western Thunderer
Mick,

Although these rules do apply, brown=fitted, grey=un-fitted, they weren't always strictly adhered to. Certainly local pick ups were a mixture of all sorts and ran as loose coupled and certainly a lot of the early batches of steel bodied minerals (pre nationalisation) were treated in bauxite and were never vacuum braked. As for brake vans there seems to be far more fitted versions built than un-fitted and late fifties into the sixties fitted Bv's were regularly seen on un-fitted trains.

ATB Mick


Hello Mick,

it's not quite as simple as that, grey should = unfitted and bauxite should = fitted.
But then you get to the piped that have vac. pipes but no AVB. these should have been painted in grey but some of them (IIRC) were painted in bauxite! To show the difference the pipe ends were painted in different colours. (IIRC) red for vac. fitted and white for through piped.

Then you get the XP type of van that had Vac. brakes and steam heating in the van and the type that only had the Vac. brakes and through steam heat pipes.

OzzyO.

PS. I'm sure that Paul B. will be able to help us all out on this.
 

AJC

Western Thunderer
Hello Mick,

it's not quite as simple as that, grey should = unfitted and bauxite should = fitted.
But then you get to the piped that have vac. pipes but no AVB. these should have been painted in grey but some of them (IIRC) were painted in bauxite! To show the difference the pipe ends were painted in different colours. (IIRC) red for vac. fitted and white for through piped.

Then you get the XP type of van that had Vac. brakes and steam heating in the van and the type that only had the Vac. brakes and through steam heat pipes.

OzzyO.


I can't claim to have made a comprehensive survey, but the above isn't quite right. Through-piped vehicles were (under BR prior to the livery changes of 1964*), generally painted bauxite with the through pipe, as Ozzy says, in white. Generally this applied most often to brakevans; most BR-built brakes were not actually vac' fitted but had a through pipe and vacuum valve in addition to the handbrake. In other words, the guard could operate the train brake and the van brake, but not both together! The LNER and SR had fully fitted brake vans but I am not sure that either of the other members of the 'Big Four' did.

Fitted vehicles had red painted pipes and this applied even to vac' pipes suspended below the buffer beam.

XP rating had no relation to steam heat capability; it simply signified compatibility with passenger train running. Basically, 10' or longer wheelbase and with AVB. Passenger rated stock - a synonym for NPCCS [non-passenger carrying coaching stock] should always have had at least a through pipe for steam heat. Obviously milk tanks and CCTs didn't require steam heat!

I think Mick is slightly conflating the difference between how the wagons were operated and how they were painted. Most freight trains in the steam era lacked continuous brake, were loose-coupled and wagons were arranged in a manner most convenient for the job in hand as far as I'm aware. Brake pipes were only rarely connected up and obviously if the train engine wasn't equipped with vac' brake then it didn't matter at all what order the wagons were in. Fully or partially fitted trains - block trains of fruit or cement, for example - were different and the Rulebook made clear how many vehicles in a train needed to have the brakes fully connected up for each class of train.

Adam

* After '64 most things were meant to be Freight Brown but the braked/through pipe = brown and unfitted = grey was retained because it was useful for the operators.
 

OzzyO

Western Thunderer
Hello all,

I did simplify my reply about the XP type of van that I was talking about, I should have mentioned that it was the approx. 10' + w.b. (4 wheeled) types, the sort that I was thinking about were, banana and fish. Yes fish vans, IIRC some fish vans used the steam heat to run the refrigeration plant on these.

As both of these types van could and did run in passenger trains at both the front and back the need for the brake and steam heat pipe was needed. The working brake (AVB more so) than the the working steam heat pipe.

IIRC the allowed amount of non-fitted vehicles behind a passenger train was two or three. Unless these vehicles were piped (vac.) then it go up to five?

OzzyO.
 

Dikitriki

Flying Squad
Hi

Well, I still have the wagons lurking on the work bench to finish off, but since I can only grab short spells at the bench this time of year, and couldn't guarantee peace and quiet to paint, I turned my attention back to the Fowler, and started doing a bit of detail work on the chassis.

I've added the visible sand boxes, one inside and one outside the frames, together with all the sanding paraphernalia, stays and little clips. It takes longer to work out where everything goes and what it looks like than to actually build it, and since prototype information is somewhat hard to come by for this class, there is a certain amount of 'interpretation' going on.

P1010709a.jpg

The end of the sand pipes are not as close to the wheel as they appear. With no weight on the chassis, it is riding high on the springs.

Richard
 

7mmMick

Western Thunderer
Very nice indeed Richard. The sand box lid is lovely. Can I ask if the brake pull rods are detachable and if so what method you have used to do this please? I only ask as I'm approaching that part of a build and although I have ideas I would like some advice on a tried and tested method please?

Cheers Mick :thumbs:
 

Dikitriki

Flying Squad
Very nice indeed Richard. The sand box lid is lovely. Can I ask if the brake pull rods are detachable and if so what method you have used to do this please? I only ask as I'm approaching that part of a build and although I have ideas I would like some advice on a tried and tested method please?

Cheers Mick :thumbs:

Hi Mick,

All the brake rigging is soldered solid on this one. I can easily take the Slater's wheels off by wiggling them past the brakes. I shall have to consider this issue though when I come to my MOK 9F as I shall be using Alan Harris wheels with telescopic axles for that model.

Richard
 

Dikitriki

Flying Squad
The sanding gear looks magnificent. Is it castings and if so where from? I need some!!

Nick

Thanks Nick,

No Griffin parts in this one. The components used are shown in the following photo:

P1010723a.jpg

The sand valves bottom left are by Peter Roles, drilled for 0.7mm wire. The sand pipe ends are brass turnings. I know of no one who makes these. They are drilled 0.7mm for the sand pipe and 0.5mm for the steam pipe. My steam pipes come from unwound and straightened 0.35mm picture wire.

The stays top left are from 0.8mm brass section. They pass under the sand pipe nozzle which is then clipped to the stay with some etched clips from Martin Finney.

They are somewhat fiddly, but the effect is good.

Cheers

Richard
 

7mmMick

Western Thunderer
Hi Mick,

All the brake rigging is soldered solid on this one. I can easily take the Slater's wheels off by wiggling them past the brakes. I shall have to consider this issue though when I come to my MOK 9F as I shall be using Alan Harris wheels with telescopic axles for that model.

Richard

Thanks Richard, I can't get away with just taking off the wheels on my J72 but I will probably make the centre pull rod removable so that the crank axle can be dropped out? I will ponder further. I will be interested to see how you tackle your 9F as I have some Alan Harris wheels for a J25 and a different approach will be needed again,

Cheers Mick
 
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