7mm Drewry Shunter, a lock down project

Discussion in 'Area 51' started by PeteB, 17 September 2020.

  1. PeteB

    PeteB Active Member

    Hi, It's been over a year since I last posted and a lot of things as happened in that time. Firstly I hope you are all well and staying safe in our current situation.
    Last summer I had a massive melt down with my M7, least of which was a mower eaten clack valve, to the point I had to walk away from her. Fear not she is now close to completion, and I will finish the stream very soon.
    It did give me the chance to finish a few outstanding projects. IMG_20191118_124314.jpg
    R/C Cessna 170. I was hoping to fly her this summer!!!!
    A replacement gauge for a Bing Vertical steam engine, which is now fully restored.
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    It came with the above
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    New one fitted. Managed to find a glass Co who made me the glass, 1mm thick. 3 for a fiver and a tour of the works. What a fine day out.

    Soon after, stuff happened!!!!
    Late November stuff all sorted, I needed to get my mojo back.
    I had a Connoisseur LNER 12 Ton fitted van complete with slaters wheels etc (must have bought it at a show)
    Took a couple of weeks and retunedith my mojo.
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    The white bits on the roof are ment to be bird poo.

    Back onto My M7. Painted, transfered and dirted. Will tell all when I finish it.

    Then Lock down.

    A rattle from the letter box, and on the floor was the May addition of the o gauge Gazette. Yay.
    Reading though it I came to page 73. I had been looking for one of these sort of things for a while, and it fitted nicely to my time line of late 1950s.
    So straight onto the Connoisseur web site, unfortunately no link to order, just a pic. Made the call, Jim was caught on the back foot not expecting the mag to be out so soon.
    I ordered one and motor and was told what I needed from Slater's. A bit of a cock up with slaters, they sent me two sets of wheels and axles. A new product put together between Jim and Slaters. All got sorted out.

    Drewry 153hp Diesel Shunter.
    So what's in the kit.
    IMG_20200425_140323.jpg IMG_20200425_141044.jpg IMG_20200425_141140.jpg IMG_20200425_141612.jpg IMG_20200425_141706.jpg IMG_20200425_141754.jpg IMG_20200425_141834.jpg
    Quality. White metal parts with good detail, wire and PCB boards and bonus city, a white metal casting of Jim and side kick Dan as the drivers.

    I'm going to start with the chassis. But first lunch.
     
  2. Dan Haines

    Dan Haines New Member

    Hello Pete b , I'm looking forward to seeing how you get on I'm actually Jim's side kick in the kit i am only 5ft 2 I look even smaller In 7mm scale . was fortunate enough to help jim on the development on this loco the model on the box lid is actually the one I built any questions feel free to ask .
     
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  3. PeteB

    PeteB Active Member

    Oooopps Just shows you don't know who's looking in!!!!
    Hi Dan, sorry no disrespect intended. So no pressure then. I did finish the kit just over a week ago, but please feel free to add as you see fit.
    You'll have to wait to see what I did with you lol.

    This is not a detailed build as most of the kit is straight forward.
    The chassis is the same for which ever variant you wish to build, more on that in the body build.

    The chassis is a straight forward build, making sure everything is square. A reamer/broach would be helpful in opening out the holes for the axle bearings, but as long as you are not too aggressive, a round file will do. Again, making sure everything is square, a bit at a time.
    The instructions are very clear, so read, read and read them again.
    Sloppy axle compensation for the centre axle, I got to say at first went against the grain. Fitting the axle in the bearings, then soldering a rod at right angles and above the centre of the axle so it touches. Then (this is the bit I was not ok with) remove axle and file the bearings top and bottom to make them oval.
    Filling bearings for me is a big no no, however as stated, this helps with the wheels making contact with the rails over points etc. When you think about it, It's a shunter used to shunt things, it's not going to run around the main line pulling trucks at break neck speeds!!!! So no problem.

    The coupling rods are tree sections laminated together, and a nice touch is the centre one has the grease nipples protruding above the ends.
    The top hat bushes need to be filled down on the front and rear so they don't slop around. Now I don't know about you but to file one of them small bushes and get them square!!!!
    This is how I managed it.
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    Cut off the head of a 12ba bolt and run a nut down it, placing the bush as shown. It must be at right angles.

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    Place under the chuck and lower so the flange just sits inside. Don't hold to tightly as you want the flange to centre it's self. Now holding the chuck hight with your arm, the vice with one hand, tighten the chuck with other hand. Not too tight, just nipped. lift it off bolt.
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    Start drill and lower down onto med grade sanding sheet and move around.

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    Check with ruler. Once you've done one the other three will be the same.

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    Top right is before. You can clearly see the finish on the bottom one.

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    This should now run freely.
    I did run a 12ba thread on the rear quadrant, being white metal I didn't want it to wear oval running backward and forward. Finale fitment they were cut to length and done up nice and tight with a bit of loctite for good measure.
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    These are the backs of my M7 wheels. As you can see I'm a bit of a belt and braces kind of guy, don't want them there bolts coming lose. So same with the Drewry. All glued with Araldite!!!!



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    The brass etched brake shoes where recommended, the reason given was they where more durable. Personally I thought the white metal ones had more detail and looked the part. I also added a pipe to the air tank and a drain tap.(bit hard to see in pic)
    As the shunter will be used on BR, I decided to modify the gaud iron as shown. In the kit they are straight with a RSJ soldered across. All the pics I could find on the net BR Shunters are as shown.

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    I used slater's plunger pickups, which were perfect. Just a couple of touch ups to do. Does run very well. well pleased.
     
  4. PeteB

    PeteB Active Member

    Thanks for the likes.
    And now the body.
    Soooo many of these shunters were built and with soooo many variants and shipped all around the glob. Drewry contracted them out to Vulcan Foundry and Robert Stephenson & Hawthorns where they made them to order, be it factories, docks, trams, BR etc.
    So I guess this is one kit you can put your own stamp on. Nobody can say "oh that should be fitted there not there" or "It didn't have one of those fitted"
    Mine will, one day, be zooming around a BR marshaling yard. As I'm building mine before Health & Safety the tread plates where not required.
    Get to use my new toy from GW, first use was on the 12 ton fitted van above.
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    Riveting now becomes fun. IMG_20200426_152346.jpg
    All the etched parts are crisp and with little or no fettling required.

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    Laminated front and rear buffer beams.

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    Window surrounds. Insert, small weight and solder. Easy. IMG_20200429_120947.jpg
    Doors fitted and footplate formed.

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    Ok, so this is the first issue. With the knobs located and with a 0.7mm brass wire inserted, turned over and resting said knobs on the solder board making sure they're at right angles, I soldered them on the inside. However when I flipped the panel over, as you can see, doesn't look good.
    On inspection of the brass knobs, I found the hole for the 0.7mm wire drilled to one side or at an angle. Jim has put a bit on this in the instructions, but as most had been drilled to one side I felt they where unusable.
    A conversation with Jim reviled that he gets them from a small company and said he'll send me some more. He did, but they where no better. So I bit the bullet and went to Slaters. I'm all for supporting the small firms, butches, bakers etc but if the goods are no good then...........

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    Much better. Now there is quite a bit of cab interior detail, so it's best to get rid of the rivet marks now.
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    Flux, solder, sand. The two rows vertical will be hidden by the handbrake column. Just the rear and side panels need doing.

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    Now you get a choice as regards the top of the engine hosing, ether etched or white metal. I wished I'd taken some pics of the process, but it is very well illustrated and explained and comes with a white metal former if you go the etched way as I did.
    The good thing is if you muck the etched one up you can always use the white metal one. So if you are a beginner, give the etched one a go first, it will look better. If you get it right then the white metal top will not be required, so what I did was to cut it in two and bolted it to the underside front of engine hosing for ballast. IMG_20200521_144658.jpg
    With this and all the other white metal bits, traction ain't going to be a problem. Anyway it would have only finished up in the bits box and stayed there !!!!

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    As you can see, there are a lot of hand rail knobs to try to get right so I'm glad I went to slaters.
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    I shall finish here as I can't upload anymore pics.:rant:
     

    Attached Files:

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  5. AdeMoore

    AdeMoore Western Thunderer

    Very interesting excellent work there neat soldering noted.
    Watching for more.
    Cheers
    Ade
     
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  6. adrian

    adrian Flying Squad

    That's turning into a nice little loco. I'm glad you went for the etched bonnet - it's turned out well. As you say good for a beginner to have a go and revert back to the cast version if it doesn't work.

    That can be increased but it's more a self protection mode. If the upload fails and loses the link to the attachments you'd have to start again. So it's trying to find a sensible balance of size to up load as too many pictures per post can be slow to load for members viewing the post via a slower internet connection. Also the picture number is per post, so the additional ones can easily be uploaded in a second post.
     
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  7. PeteB

    PeteB Active Member

    Ade and Adrian, thank you for you're kind words.

    So lets finish this bad boy. IMG_20200531_153942.jpg

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    Some of you wide eyed bunnies out there might have spotted that the front steps are too far forward. It was at this point I noticed it too.
    If you scroll up you can see the same on the pic on the front page of the instructions. But if you look at Dan's excellent build on the front of the box, you'll see that the front steps are further back. Unfortunately that pic was not available to me as it was face down with parts inside the lid!!!!
    I did check back though the instruction just to make sure I wasn't being stupid (not the first time nor the last) This time I wasn't, It's very clear. Oh and that strawberry was delicious.
    pic.2_LI.jpg
    As you can see.
    However, if you a building the tram version the side skirt has a cut out where the steps are soldered to the back and yes they are further back.
    There was no going back as it would have been very messy. It's the rear step hand hold that makes it stand out, so I moved it forward, and I think I might have gotten away with it. I don't know why Jim/Dan did it that way, I can only guess for durability maybe. If I had spotted it during that part of the build, I could have quite easily made a bracket or two.

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    She is a pretty little thing. I'm over the moon with her.
    I decided to paint her Sherwood Green (Railmatch 301) and very happy with the texture I managed to get on the paint too. She's a working girl.

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    As you can see by moving that hand hold forward does make a difference, I would have liked to move the front one forward too but the buffer wouldn't let me.

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    I have to say Jim and Dan, slackers both, how can you start work before cleaning the bloody windows!!!!
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    I painted the top half of the cab BR grey p137.
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    First time I've ever painted large figures before. Well happy.

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    I thoroughly enjoyed this build. So if you're looking for a shunter to tidy up your marshalling yard, or if you are looking for a starter loco kit, then look no further. Oh I nearly forgot, She weighs in at 574 grams.

    Another excellent kit from the Connoisseur stable.

    Thanks to all who have viewed this post.

    Back to me m7.
     
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  8. AdeMoore

    AdeMoore Western Thunderer

    Really nice work that Pete,
    Like the last photo with the wagon and van looks particularly good. Like to see it on a layout.
    Top work that including the painting and weathering.
    Cheers
     
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  9. oldravendale

    oldravendale Western Thunderer

    Very nice, Pete.

    But why D3791?

    Brian
     
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  10. PeteB

    PeteB Active Member

    Thank you Ade and Brian.

    Brian, Your knowledge of numbers/engines and everything else to do with railways out strips mine a thousand fold and then some.
    As I'm sure you already know, these came out by the bucket load, and the numbers when they were born with changed and some changed again.
    I wanted a number that may have existed in the past and now long gone, so no reference.
    For late 1950s I think the D is ok. Did it stand for Diesel? A lot started with 2 and 4, so I made up the number and then checked on the net to see if there were any mention of said number.
    I just wanted to do my own thing. I guess it's as simple as that. However, if you know different, then please please tell.

    Cheers
    Pete
     
  11. eastsidepilot

    eastsidepilot Western Thunderer

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  12. PeteB

    PeteB Active Member

    Hi Col

    I guess that's what Brian was alluding to. A case of best laid plans of ......
    Well, every day's a school day. Thank you for the link, at least I will not be making that mistake again!!!!
    It's done now, let's hope nobody else picks up on it!!!!

    Thanks
    Pete
     
  13. oldravendale

    oldravendale Western Thunderer

    Hi Pete.

    Col gives the basic starting point for researching the number series against any particular loco. I've found that reference very helpful in the past, although it's also been worth getting a second source to confirm the info - occasionally it disagrees with other sources.

    Neither can you rely on my knowledge, particularly as far as diesel locos are concerned. Anything I may be able to comment on comes from being old and remembering train spotting days! However, that number on the Connoisseur box - 12589 - simply looks wrong and I can't translate it in to any of the BR "D" series. In fact no shunters I've found were ever numbered beyond the 117XX series. Perhaps it's a "neverwozzer", hence the fictitious number. As Col says, I recognised the number of your loco as being for an "08", hence my trip down this particular investigation.

    I wonder if this is close to the prototype being modelled here. http://enuii.com/vulcan_foundry/photographs/Pre EE Diesel/vulcan drewry 0-4-0 shunters.pdf

    If so it looks as though none were supplied to BR, although those for the Ministry of Supply could have ended up on BR I guess. In the renumbering of non-steam stock diesels were, indeed, identified with a "D" prefix and electrics with an "E". For some reason the LMS locos 10000 and 10001 and Southern 10201, 2 and 3, Southern Electrics 20001, 2 and 3 and various diesel shunting locos were never renumbered. (My list is not exhaustive. It should include, for example, the Woodhead electrics but is intended to illustrate that there appears to have been no rhyme or reason why some locos were renumbered and some were not).

    However, curiouser and curiouser, Class 02 D2850 - D2869 mentioned by Col, 0-4-0 diesel hydraulics were built by the Yorkshire Engine Co in 1960 and so never carried five digit numbers. But were all 0-4-0 shunters designated 02 whatever their parentage? I simply don't know as it's outside my particular interest bubble. There were quite a few earlier classes which carried the five digit numbers, though, but whether they ever reached the dizzying heights of being renumbered in to TOPS by way of a "D" number I don't know, although most, perhaps all, received their "D" prefix number. In fact anything numbered between D2410 and D2958 (11508) with an outlier at D2999 could be considered as they were in the main 0-4-0 diesel shunters although there were two classes of 0-6-0 shunter in that series as well. None of the 0-4-0 shunters is shown as being by Drewry who appear to have sub contracted their orders to third party manufacturers anyway. An early case of "Badge engineering" perhaps?

    I reckon you are going to have to wait for someone who has a good knowledge of diesel shunting locos to come along - I'm sure there'll be chapter and verse soon!

    In the meantime, that's a very good looking loco you've built and you should be proud of it. I'd not get hung up about the number. I'm almost wishing I'd never asked the question!

    Brian
     
    Last edited: 21 September 2020
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  14. PeteB

    PeteB Active Member

    Brian, I'm very glad you did ask the question, the link from Col and the in-depth information from you is so so helpful.
    You are always welcome to pop in and put me right or point me in another direction.
    This whole thing with numbers, albeit types or their numbers, just opens the proverbial can of worms.
    London Transport did something similar with their Route Masters. When they where first made the Chassis, Bonnet, body and reg numbers were compatible, 15 odd years down the line and a few visits to Aldenham works, only the Bonnet and reg numbers matched!!!! Swansea were not to happy when they found out. If a garage wanted a show bus they would have to look at every RM in the depot to find one where the numbers were closest.
    I'm not hung up about the number, but I am enlightened.

    Thank you for your time Brian

    Cheers
    pete
     
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  15. Peter Insole

    Peter Insole Western Thunderer

    I dare say that Swansea may have indeed been unimpressed, but I suspect it was more a case of tax avoidance from their point of view?

    When an RT entered Aldenham Works for overhaul, it's fleet and registration number (and thus the tax due) was immediately transferred to a fresh vehicle awaiting dispatch. That meant that there was no tax being paid while any vehicle was off the road.

    The RM (Routemaster) was a slightly different case. It was of chassis-less construction, with separate "A" and "B" sub-frames that were designed to be fully interchangeable, and presumably not individually recorded in their log books.

    Now I'm being pedantic!

    Sorry Peter!

    Pete.
     
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  16. eastsidepilot

    eastsidepilot Western Thunderer

    Don't worry about it mate, it's your model railway and as long as you enjoy it it don't matter really :thumbs: but any info. you might need for future models there is loads of stuff on the internet if not here on WT. Just ask, I do.

    You've made a nice job of the diesel, I might have to consider one of those for my planned project when operating in early BR era.

    Col.
     
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  17. Yorkshire Dave

    Yorkshire Dave Western Thunderer

    You could ;) - William Cory & Sons had two operating at their Gallions Jetty in 1955.
     
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  18. Martin Shaw

    Martin Shaw Western Thunderer

    Well I'm not an expert, at very many things it has to be said, but I do have a book,
    IMG_0921.JPG
    or two that will illuminate things.
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    Firstly Jim McGeown's kit, the Drewry Car Co didn't actually make things, they were a selling agent and pretty successful it seems. The kit is based on a Vulcan Foundry standard 153hp 0-4-0 DM loco made in various gauges and using a Gardner 6L3 engine and Wilson epycyclic gearbox. As a design it was very good for it's time and the limiting factor is the amount of power a mechanical drive train can handle. Whilst Drewry supplied a lot of 153hp locos most were narrow gauge and whilst I haven't counted them I would guess at around 50 standard gauge versions.

    In 1946 Vulcan built a 204hp 0-6-0 DM loco, again using a Gardner engine type 8L3, as a stock item, Drewry number 2217, Vulcan number D46. This loco was hired to the ER who didn't care for it and returned it to Drewry who subsequenty sold it to the CCE of the SR where it entered stock as DS1173 at Hither Green. This is important for two reasons, it was the prototype for the 04 class, and the cab is the shape as on the Connoisseur kit, with a strange variation I can't explain.

    In 1947 Vulcan built an 0-4-0 DM loco for stock, Drewry number 2271, Vulcan number D100, it appears that Drewry and Vulcan allocated numbers on the ex works date, which was taken into use as the works shunter and eventually named Elizabeth. What is notable is that it was built with the larger cab associated with the 204hp locos.

    The result is the Connoisseur kit, a Vulcan 0-4-0 DM loco but with the 204hp loco cab that was also on DS1173. The production range of the 04 class had differing front and side windows fitted during the build at Vulcan and later at RSH. What I haven't been able to ascertain is the accuracy of the full height cab door handrails, they weren't that long originally. Pete has made an excellent job of building it and whilst he and Jim have given their respective models a faux BR livery and number, rule 1. As it is none of the 0-4-0s were ever in BR service.

    Locomotive numbering

    Without doubt a complex issue but the situation from 1948 was,
    1 - 9999 ex GW steam locos
    10000 - 19999 Diesel locos
    20000 - 29999 Electric locos
    30000 - 39999 ex SR steam locos
    40000 - 59999 ex LMS steam locos
    60000 - 69999 ex LNER steam locos
    70000 - 99999 BR steam locos

    and thus far nothing too startling or unknown really. Within the diesel loco range there were some somewhat arbitrary numbering decisions which have a sort of sense but it needs typed up which I will do offline and post separately. The D and E prefix era is by class as it is post Tops when it becomes relatively easier.

    Regards
    Martin
     
  19. PeteB

    PeteB Active Member

    For a little working gal, she sure attracted a lot of attention.

    Peter, I worked as a skilled fitter at LT for 10 years, the last 4 odd years at R.S.I (rolling stock inspection, Later S.M.E)
    I don't know about the tax dodge with the RTs but The Rm I'm not so sure. The front sub frame section had the chassis number plate, seen from above and front when bonnet opened. The body number can been seen from the front passenger window looking up to a filet a fixed to the window up right and the top deck underside. It was more of the case that when the bus arrived the body section was removed and transported by over head crane to the coach section and the rest went to their relative sections. When a body was ready and a chassis was ready they were put together, thus the numbers no longer matched up. Then the bonnet and reg number was fitted.
    I do see what you are saying about the tax dodge, but even with LT ( and I know they did get up to things, best left there) that would have been a bit blatant even for them. But you could be right. Because it had sub frames was the reason they didn't use it for skid pad demos.

    Martin, I think this is a case of "everything you wanted to know about diesel shunters, but were to afraid to ask" lol
    Thank you so much for your time and knowledge, and I'm sure this page will be well viewed for some time to come.
    Soooo much information, I wish I'd seen this earlier, and thanks to Brian for asking that question.

    I happy with my Drewry shunter even though they wasn't used on BR.

    So does anyone know where I can buy a 08 kit!!!!

    Again thanks for all the interest and info.

    Pete
     
  20. adrian

    adrian Flying Squad

    I believe the definitive kit was MMP - currently out of stock
    David J Parkins
    So keep an eye out on the auction site and/or various forum sales areas. He also produces a nice detailing kit if you prefer to go the detailed RTR route instead.
    David J Parkins

    Avoid like the plague any old Agenoria 08 kits. The range is now with Ragstone but I suspect the kit will be significantly revamped and updated before he is prepared to re-release it.
    Agenoria
     
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