Flux And Solder
- Thread starter AdamF
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adrian
Flying Squad
NEAT buildAre you using an RSU?
Looks like the superstructure on this kit is going to be very rigid
I do have an RSU but it's not been used for ages. Following recommendations from the Guv'nor and others on WT, I treated myself to an ERSA RDS80 soldering station. So I use that with Carrs 179 solder cream and "Building O Gauge" safety flux. With soldering I like to be able to control where the heat goes, I always struggled with the RSU, it was hard to move the probe down a joint and get a nice flow of solder. In fact given the amount of times I use it now, I'm seriously considering putting it on ebay and it's not often that I sell on tools.
However the RDS80 was a good investment and a joy to use.
Steph Dale
Western Thunderer
Adrian,
A good and timely recommendation, thank you. I can see I'll be getting one of these in the New Year to help with building a rake of brass coach kits. I'm pretty sure my 35w Antex isn't up to that task and was wondering what to get/use. I've had good experience with ERSA irons in production environments, but wasn't aware of a retail supplier until you posted the link. Conrad are good to deal with too...
Steph
AdamF
Western Thunderer
Wow
That set-up delivers great results!!Thanks for including the links to the different products. You know, I've been wondering about using the Building O Gauge safety flux - the usual stuff seems quite aggressive on wheels and soldered parts. Given the work in the pics above I might try some
And the 138 soldering cream maybe just what I need for upcoming delicate detail work on the 517 
The soldering station looks interesting as well although I'm currently using a budget unit I bought from Maplin and it has been very good so far - maybe when my skills increase I'll invest in the ERSA unit.
28ten
Guv'nor
Id give a vote for ERSA Mine is about 3years old, although it didnt cost £345 new, it was about £180.
Like Adrian I have an RSU but it is not used that often, although some people suggest the opposite, have a look here. I believe Dikitriki uses a microflame, so that is another option.
If you intend to build a lot of brass kits I would say a good iron is an essential investment, and as always practice and good tools make a clean job like Adrians. But do look at the other options as well.
Mine is about 3years old, although it didnt cost £345 new, it was about £180.Like Adrian I have an RSU but it is not used that often, although some people suggest the opposite, have a look here. I believe Dikitriki uses a microflame, so that is another option.
If you intend to build a lot of brass kits I would say a good iron is an essential investment, and as always practice and good tools make a clean job like Adrians. But do look at the other options as well.
adrian
Flying Squad
It was on your recommendation that I bought mine!
As for the guide on using an RSU - yes I've seen that article before but having tried it I'm still not convinced that it's a good way of doing it, it's not for me anyway. To me soldering is all about heat management, you need to get the appropriate amount of heat to the metal you are soldering, I don't think you are off to a good start by putting the model on a nice heat conducting steel plate also all that messing around with magnets is too much like hard work for me. Finally the picture of the soldered seam at the bottom of page 6 is exactly why I'm not keen on RSU's, the solder is all in blobs along the joint. It should be one nice smooth flow of solder, with a good iron and adequate heat then it would look just like a film of mercury along the joint. Solder will always follow the heat if the metal is clean enough so applying the iron down the joint can actually suck the solder down with it. With the RSU being such a localised point of heat I find it difficult to get it to flow the solder along a joint. The only job I might use the RSU for is small etchings which are difficult to hold. The ability to switch off the heat means that I can hold the item in place with the probe whilst the solder solidifies.
Buckjumper
Flying Squad
+1 for the RDS80 unit. I've had mine since late 2006 and use the 5mm straight chisel 832VD tip for all the main soldering jobs. Anything that needs extra oomph gets a blast from the SolderPro 120 microflame (I'd like to find the time to become more competent with it as I'm impressed with Dikitriki's beautiful work) and the RSU gets charged up for any tiny detailing overlays. I've reels of 188 and 145 (job lot a few years back - enough to keep me going for all the stock that needs to be built for Basilica) along with Carrs 179 cream (lovely stuff, but only with extra flux) and Carrs Yellow Label in a CPL flux pen. I tried the Safety Flux but found it far more irritating to my lungs than Yellow and after a session found the work had became much dirtier than with other fluxes, and harder to properly remove the residues despite a thorough daily cleaning regimen with Barkeeper's Friend and an electric toothbrush. I also found brass axles often gummed up in their hornguides with a horrible sticky greenish blue deposit a few days or even weeks later so reverting to Yellow was a simple choice. I thought I was alone experiencing these issues with safety flux, but have now heard many similar stories. To be fair I've also spoken to those who've not encountered this issue with it, but as a large proportion of my output is commission work I'm not prepared to take a chance with it again.
7mmMick
Western Thunderer
I use safety flux and Initially I just applied it like I had with Carrs. I must say I do like it a lot but found after a marathon session my hands turned blue and I had the same issues as Adrian with cleaning and deposits. The worst bit was after a couple days away from the work bench I returned to find any steel tools had fury rust deposits on them which runined some
. Carrs never caused this issue and in the past the tools got a fortnightly if less wipe over and light oil to keep them tip top. Not so with Safety flux, I now clean the work and tools every session which is a right pain in the backside
. Carrs never caused this issue and in the past the tools got a fortnightly if less wipe over and light oil to keep them tip top. Not so with Safety flux, I now clean the work and tools every session which is a right pain in the backside
Simon Varnam
Active Member
Hi Everyone
I feel the need to reply to this thread.
I have not known my Flux leave a sticky residue????. All fluxes including mine will leave some kind of residue and should always be cleaned off. I always found Carr's of any colour difficult to remove and in some cases fingerprints were left that just couldn't be removed. I know some people have bought Safty Flux from GJH Plant. I would like to state that this IS NOT the same product as I am selling. The former is also supplied to a major retailer re-badged and again is not the same as mine.
Bare steel will rust if you look at it, which is why steel stockholders coat everything in a thin oil. Dont forget the natural grease and salts in your skin will be enough to effect steel.
The blue colour in my flux (Which has to be there to comply with CAS regulations) will stain your fingers but your not supposed to be soldering your fingers. The whole point of Safety Flux (Mine) is that it should be removable in detergent and warm water and in any case a quick washdown at the end of any building session is a very good habbit to be in as it will remove the residues left on the brass from your skin.
I have always thought that the pictures on my website and in various forums speak for themselves although I somtimes wince when I see the amount of solder some people apply.
I feel the need to reply to this thread.
I have not known my Flux leave a sticky residue????. All fluxes including mine will leave some kind of residue and should always be cleaned off. I always found Carr's of any colour difficult to remove and in some cases fingerprints were left that just couldn't be removed. I know some people have bought Safty Flux from GJH Plant. I would like to state that this IS NOT the same product as I am selling. The former is also supplied to a major retailer re-badged and again is not the same as mine.
Bare steel will rust if you look at it, which is why steel stockholders coat everything in a thin oil. Dont forget the natural grease and salts in your skin will be enough to effect steel.
The blue colour in my flux (Which has to be there to comply with CAS regulations) will stain your fingers but your not supposed to be soldering your fingers. The whole point of Safety Flux (Mine) is that it should be removable in detergent and warm water and in any case a quick washdown at the end of any building session is a very good habbit to be in as it will remove the residues left on the brass from your skin.
I have always thought that the pictures on my website and in various forums speak for themselves although I somtimes wince when I see the amount of solder some people apply.
7mmMick
Western Thunderer
Simon, apologies for any offence caused but as above I do like your product a lot. It is the best I've used and I bought and will continue to buy it having been inspired by your websiteand the soldering results it gives. I should have phraised it differently in as much as I find it has to be treated a little differently to others,
ATB Mick
28ten
Guv'nor
We discussed flux here http://www.westernthunder.co.uk/index.php?threads/flux.1025/#post-23738 and I will merge the two threads after this one has run its course
Like all things in life 'One mans meat is another mans poison' and if you ask twenty modellers the best flux, solder and iron question you will get forty different answers
I did find the safety flux caused a skin irritation, and I also find Carss rusts everything in sight Recently I have been using powerflux, and it has caused no problems, but I have always washed sub assemblies as I go along and that means scrubbing parts in hot water and Flash several times in a session so there is not much danger of any residue being left.
Flux is cheap enough to buy a bottle of each and find which one works best.
Like all things in life 'One mans meat is another mans poison'
and if you ask twenty modellers the best flux, solder and iron question you will get forty different answers I did find the safety flux caused a skin irritation, and I also find Carss rusts everything in sight
Recently I have been using powerflux, and it has caused no problems, but I have always washed sub assemblies as I go along and that means scrubbing parts in hot water and Flash several times in a session so there is not much danger of any residue being left. Flux is cheap enough to buy a bottle of each and find which one works best.
Buckjumper
Flying Squad
Edit: Thanks Guv for separating the thread, it was clogging Adrian's thread up... (sorry Adrian!)
Thanks for your reply Simon. To clarify, my flux was bought from you, not GJH, my cleaning regimen is daily and thorough using Barkeeper's Friend, though I've also used Viakal, and always well scrubbed with a toothbrush. I don't slosh flux on as I have a CPL flux pen which unless over-squeezed, which happens from time to time, is very accurate in its placement. Nevertheless a blue/green sticky residue often appeared after use - sometimes days, sometimes weeks - and it's something that has never happened with Carrs Yellow.
However, that's only half the reason for my discontinuation of its use - the other is that the fumes irritated and even hurt my lungs. I don't solder in an enclosed area, I have a solder fume extractor in constant use which receives a regular change of filter and an extractor fan to fresh air which is usually on. If required there is also a window within reach and a door opening to fresh air too. In addition to the extractor and fan I always have to open the window and door when using safety flux (uncomfortable in winter) and only the former two with Yellow. I don't have any asthmatic or other respiratory tract issues.
I know that lots of people use your flux with no problems whatsoever, I've seen some very clean soldering work done with it both in the flesh and online, and I've read some glowing testimonials - in fact at one time I thought that I was the only person to experience any problems with it, but I now know that isn't the case.
I really don't believe there is a panacea for flux, just as there isn't one for a post-soldering session cleaning agent, or a soldering iron, or an airbrush, a make of paint, a soldering iron, a file... sometimes you have to try a number of alternatives to find the one which works best for you.
Thanks for your reply Simon. To clarify, my flux was bought from you, not GJH, my cleaning regimen is daily and thorough using Barkeeper's Friend, though I've also used Viakal, and always well scrubbed with a toothbrush. I don't slosh flux on as I have a CPL flux pen which unless over-squeezed, which happens from time to time, is very accurate in its placement. Nevertheless a blue/green sticky residue often appeared after use - sometimes days, sometimes weeks - and it's something that has never happened with Carrs Yellow.
However, that's only half the reason for my discontinuation of its use - the other is that the fumes irritated and even hurt my lungs. I don't solder in an enclosed area, I have a solder fume extractor in constant use which receives a regular change of filter and an extractor fan to fresh air which is usually on. If required there is also a window within reach and a door opening to fresh air too. In addition to the extractor and fan I always have to open the window and door when using safety flux (uncomfortable in winter) and only the former two with Yellow. I don't have any asthmatic or other respiratory tract issues.
I know that lots of people use your flux with no problems whatsoever, I've seen some very clean soldering work done with it both in the flesh and online, and I've read some glowing testimonials - in fact at one time I thought that I was the only person to experience any problems with it, but I now know that isn't the case.
I really don't believe there is a panacea for flux, just as there isn't one for a post-soldering session cleaning agent, or a soldering iron, or an airbrush, a make of paint, a soldering iron, a file... sometimes you have to try a number of alternatives to find the one which works best for you.
Rob Pulham
Western Thunderer
I had almost the opposite experience to you Adrian. I used to use Carrs red and yellow label flux (I still have it somewhere) but I suffered terribly from the fumes and so did the wife despite buying a fume extractor from Maplins, having a window open when soldering etc. I moved on to using Simon's flux and haven't looked back - I have been using the same bottle for over 2 years now (still half full). The smell doesn't both me at all (strangely I rather like it) and I don't have any trouble with corrosion even on the rare occasions that I haven't washed off at the end of a session. I generally use really cheap washing up liquid from Tesco and shiny sinks for cleaning up.
I agree with you regarding the lack of panacea for flux I just think that you have to find the combination that works for you.
Along similar lines we have to buy water based gloss paint/varnish in our house as both Chris and I suffer terribly from spirit based varieties
I agree with you regarding the lack of panacea for flux I just think that you have to find the combination that works for you.
Along similar lines we have to buy water based gloss paint/varnish in our house as both Chris and I suffer terribly from spirit based varieties
Simon Varnam
Active Member
Jordan
If you can't remove the wheels and motor then in my opinion the kit is not very well thought out. I know there are some where this would be difficult and I would probably resort to a toothbrush and small pot of water/detergent and clean water to rinse so as not to have to dunk it. I have built kits where I have had to adapt things so it can be taken apart at the painting stage.
Like it - Safty Flux..? Is that another Black Country product..??!!
Yes it was but I am no longer there!
Buckjumper
This sticky residue concers me greatly. This is one thing that should not happen as there is nothing in the product that will do this. I assume that the statement that others have experienced this can be substantiated. If I knew the names of people then I could tell which batch the bottles came from. I am just concerened that I may have had a batch that has been contaminated in some way. In your case then what I am about to say may not be of any use as you say you are sensitive to the fumes. If you returned the bottle to me I would be happy to replace it with a fresh one from a current batch.
If you can't remove the wheels and motor then in my opinion the kit is not very well thought out. I know there are some where this would be difficult and I would probably resort to a toothbrush and small pot of water/detergent and clean water to rinse so as not to have to dunk it. I have built kits where I have had to adapt things so it can be taken apart at the painting stage.
Like it - Safty Flux..? Is that another Black Country product..??!!
Yes it was but I am no longer there!
Buckjumper
This sticky residue concers me greatly. This is one thing that should not happen as there is nothing in the product that will do this. I assume that the statement that others have experienced this can be substantiated. If I knew the names of people then I could tell which batch the bottles came from. I am just concerened that I may have had a batch that has been contaminated in some way. In your case then what I am about to say may not be of any use as you say you are sensitive to the fumes. If you returned the bottle to me I would be happy to replace it with a fresh one from a current batch.
Simon Varnam
Active Member
Just to say to everyone
No offence taken. Just responding to customer feedback.
As someone running a business, those manufacturers who really care do monitor the various forums. Without you as customers then we do not have a business. While we can't address every comment with an answer we do read what you write.
No offence taken. Just responding to customer feedback.
As someone running a business, those manufacturers who really care do monitor the various forums. Without you as customers then we do not have a business. While we can't address every comment with an answer we do read what you write.
Buckjumper
Flying Squad
Thanks Simon. I'm putting together a reply in between children watching and will get back to you asap.
Buckjumper
Flying Squad
I've sent Simon a detailed reply in a private message and have copied The Guv in on too. I very much appreciate Simon's willingness to discuss and address this issues raised.
Dikitriki
Flying Squad
Hi
I use the Antex 690 SD exclusively for all my soldering, unless I have to use a microflame. In fact I have 2 of them, one in the workshop, and one for Heyside use. I have to say though that I have just looked at the price, and they seem horribly expensive now. I've had mine years, which I suppose is a testimonial to their construction.
Richard
I use the Antex 690 SD exclusively for all my soldering, unless I have to use a microflame. In fact I have 2 of them, one in the workshop, and one for Heyside use. I have to say though that I have just looked at the price, and they seem horribly expensive now. I've had mine years, which I suppose is a testimonial to their construction.
Richard