Gloucester 6 ton coal wagon

Discussion in 'G3' started by Jon Nazareth, 21 April 2020.

  1. Jon Nazareth

    Jon Nazareth Western Thunderer

    I was thinking that smaller wagons would look better behind Enigma and so, I'm going to scratch build a pair of these coal wagons. I'd like to make that curved strap in one piece. Anyone bent a flat piece of metal like this before? I am imagining that it will want to twist before it does anything else.

    Jon

    IMG_4100.JPG
     
  2. lankytank

    lankytank Western Thunderer

    Jon

    You might want to get it pantograph milled..? We both know someone who could do it. :rolleyes::rolleyes::thumbs:

    In fact, apart from the straight vertical strap, both 'wiggly' straps could be milled.
     
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  3. john lewsey

    john lewsey Western Thunderer

    I do like the look of that wagon it would make a very attractive model
    John
     
    Last edited: 21 April 2020
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  4. Mike W

    Mike W Western Thunderer

    I think with care and by keep flattening it, you'll do it alright from a flat strip. Is it Welsh?

    Mike
     
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  5. mswjr

    mswjr Western Thunderer

    yes , Mike is right, Brass strip, anneal it bend it, then when it start's to bow I would flatten it back in some smooth vice jaw's, then anneal again until it is the right shape, keep annealing is the answer.
     
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  6. Jon Nazareth

    Jon Nazareth Western Thunderer

    Mike
    Yes, I think it is Welsh but can't swear to it.

    Jon
     
  7. Mike W

    Mike W Western Thunderer

    This wagon reminds me that 30 years ago there was a chap my father knew and who we met at model shows each year. Think he was known as Taffy something and he scratch built dozens and dozens of Welsh private owner wagons, many not unlike these, probably 4mm. Anyone now what happened to him and/or his wagons?

    Mike
     
  8. Jon Nazareth

    Jon Nazareth Western Thunderer

    Coalbrook Colly Loughor 26 C1870 - HMRS GCW 74 ACJ433 PC (1).jpg

    Mike
    This was sent to me by Daifly and it's very similar to the two that I'm building but they don't have a side door(s) as far as i'm aware.
    Two questions. Do you have any of those axleboxes? They look as if they have on them, GWC No1.
    Secondly, does anyone know what it says on that number/wagon plate?

    Jon
     
  9. Michael Osborne

    Michael Osborne Western Thunderer

    image.jpeg image.jpeg Jon, I was able to make a curved brake handle for my current Midland wagon ( ex private owner ) by making some small saw cut in the strip of metal and soldering it after bending. Hope this helps.
     
  10. Mike W

    Mike W Western Thunderer

    Sorry Jon, don't have axleboxes like that. Nearest would be your 1860s LBSC or possible this LNWR 7-ton and file to shape. But they don't have GWC Co No.1 on the front either!

    Mike
     

    Attached Files:

  11. Jon Nazareth

    Jon Nazareth Western Thunderer

    Well, that certainly worked, thanks Michael.

    Jon
     
  12. Jon Nazareth

    Jon Nazareth Western Thunderer

    Mike
    Not to worry about the axlebox, it was just a thought.

    Jon
     
  13. Jon Nazareth

    Jon Nazareth Western Thunderer

    Two under frames and two sets of Mark Wood's wheels fully machined and raring to go. The drawgear/linkage on the original won't be compatible with the rest of my stock and so I am making up some 5/6 link couplings together with some safety chains.

    Jon

    IMG_4106.JPG
     
  14. BG Rich

    BG Rich Member

    Hello Jon,
    Your drawing seems to be a copy of the Locket and Marychurch wagon in Len Tavender's book "Railway Equipment Drawings" page 47 (his drawing no N447). On page 46 in his book is a drawing of a Glos Wagon Co 10 ton dumb buffer wagon of 1883. Its wagon plate (which is the same shape as the one on the Coalbrook Colliery wagon photo sent to you by daifly) has the writing as follows: : :
    Top line in a curve: GLOSTER WAGON COY (with the OY in the upper part of the lettering in smaller, approx. half size letters as in No (as in Number) with a line under the 'o')
    LIMITED in capitals centred under the arch of the top line
    Third line: BUILDERS & OWNERS
    Fourth line: No (with the 'o' with a line under) 14071.
    The dimensions of the plate drawn by Mr Tavender are 9 inches long by 6 inches deep with the same incurved corners..

    My Locket & Marychurch drawing (using two pairs of glasses plus magnifying glass under a strong light!) shows the same lettering except that the wagon number is No 2346.

    As a comment on the Coalbroook wagon axleboxes I would suggest that it actually reads G W Co rather than GWC again with the 'o' in the upper part of the lettering.

    A few years ago I made a 7mm scale model of this wagon, which shamefully still remains without a brake lever. In Peter Matthew's booklet "Private Owner Wagons" (published by Model and Allied Publications, Hemel Hempstead 1973) there is a drawing of a Garth Merthyr Colliery, Maesteg 7 ton wagon with similar curvy ironwork next to the end door. The straight lever to operate the brakes (which slopes up towards the top of the end door end of the wagon as in the Coalbrook wagon above) is attached at its lower end to the vertical strap that pulls upward shown on the Tavender drawing that operates the levers on the brake shoes . In the series that Peter Matthews did in the old MRN there were several photos of Welsh wagons of that time showing similar straight brake levers with either straight or curved ratchet systems. I will search through the magazine mountain and try to find the relevant copies if that might be useful. These short old wagons are ideal for little 'shoe box' layouts like mine with limited sidings capacity.

    Hoping the above may be of use and looking forward to further progress with 'Enigma' and the wagons.
    Best wishes
    Rich
     
  15. BG Rich

    BG Rich Member

    Jon,
    Just a little extra to your comment in post number 6 above re; a possible Welsh connection. In "Coal Trade Wagons," also by Len Tavender, on page 27 there is a drawing of another Gloucester built wagon from 1884. It is of 'Locket's Steam Coal Compy' of Merthyr No 362, load 10 tons with a rolled iron underframe and self contained buffers. Body size 14' 11" over headstocks and 7' 3" wide. At the door end there is a large letter M in the style of the Midland Railway's 'M' over the bottom four planks. At the closed end of the wagon is a large 'L' covering the lowest four planks, next to which is script on the second plank in two lines - "Empty to Mardy Colliery," under which is written "Taff Vale Raily." The bottom plank has the script
    "Tare 4-19-0." Body colour according to Tavender's notes is likely black with white unshaded lettering. Wheelbase is 8' 3" length overall is 17"6."

    Probably too much information, but it is sometimes of interest to have some more background information when building stock.
    Best wishes
    Rich
     
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  16. Jon Nazareth

    Jon Nazareth Western Thunderer

    Dear Rich
    The drawing is indeed from Taverner's Railway Equipment Drawings and it was chosen because of it's small size. I did try to order some wagon plates, the same as those on page 46, from Guilpates but, Gareth replied that he wasn't taking any more orders until the lockdown eases and to re apply at the end of May. Still, I have recently received an order from Mike Williams which will enable me to get the frames up onto their wheels.

    Jon
     
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  17. Jon Nazareth

    Jon Nazareth Western Thunderer

    A mock up of one of the underframes with one of the sides propped up to show the height difference between the coal wagon and the ore wagon. Both coal wagons are at this stage and all, although it doesn't show in this picture, sides and ends have been scribed to show planking. If I get a chance today, I'll start fixing the sides and ends to the frames. I have some 2 mm x 2 mm brass and intend to have a go at making some square 14 BA nuts. These will only be for securing the W irons and the crown plates if I'm successful, 56 in all needed. The idea will be to drill for 14 BA in the lathe and part off with all threading being carried out sat down in doors. On the picture above, all of the nuts are square, the smaller ones would need to be 16 BA but I'm not going to have a go at those :).
     

    Attached Files:

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  18. john lewsey

    john lewsey Western Thunderer

    They look nice Jon
     
  19. john lewsey

    john lewsey Western Thunderer

    Hi do you know what the width of these wagons was. Also where can I find photos of them
    John
     
    Last edited: 6 May 2020
  20. Jon Nazareth

    Jon Nazareth Western Thunderer

    John
    The above photo came from the HMRS and, I believe, there is a photo of the wagon in the drawing. I have ordered a copies of both but, while the lockdown exists, the HMRS is closed. It would have been nice to have had the version in the drawing while the builds go on but, hey ho.

    Jon
     
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