4mm LNER & Constituent Coaches...

[LarryG]

If Hornby ever expands its Gresley range, I hope it looks at the 1930's end vestibule design stock with large windows to each compartment...


Both sides of the Gresley D155 Corridor third (built from Comet Models sides). They had shallow window vents and drop windows on the compartment side...


A Dia 212 end vestibule brake third (built from Bill Bedford etched sides)...

 

[LarryG]

John Fozard at North Eastern Design produced a range of Gresley non-corridor coaches before the plastic RTR companies took an interest. I couldn't resist building one and so I built John one as well and finished both in teak livery. I seem to remember the bogies were by Bachmann and rather too high....


The next coach had whitemetal bogies and they rode rather too low!!!....

 

[LarryG]

When I found out that some North Eastern Railway non-corridor coaches had been drafted to the Manchester area and had been used on some branch lines, I had to have one. For the record, they were regularly used on the Manchester London Road to Hayfield route along with the usual GCR coaches until at least the autumn of 1955. John Fozard had etched them in nickel-silver, which was his preferred metal....


I used Midland Railway 8 bogies because they resembled the ones fitted to this stock. This model carries LNER plain brown with an early form of BR makings.....


I do not know if they ever got BR carmine red. It is one of those things that is difficult to determine from black & white photos...

 

[LarryG]

GCR matchboard coaches fascinated me as a boy because they differed so much from what I was used to seeing. The etchings below are by Bill Bedford although the floor with ends is one of mine to which I soldered the Bill's ends and sides. (North Eastern Design also produced etchings for a GCR brake third). The droplights are etched in place to make glazing easier....


These brake thirds were mounted on GCR 8' bogies, but the model below was on Bachmann LMS bogies just for the photo...


My MR 8' bogies were fitted eventually....


The finished brake third. There wasn't much attempt at graining on the lower half....Just stains from door handles and hinges...


This is the slightly longer all-third by Bill Bedford and they ran on GCR 10' bogies (ex.Larriparts). Some of these coaches did get BR red...

 

[LarryG]

I couldn't find a way of altering the title of this thread, hence the lack of reference to other pre-grouping companies.

 

[AJC]

I couldn't find a way of altering the title of this thread, hence the lack of reference to other pre-grouping companies.

Hello Larry - at the top of each page there is a drop down menu under 'Thread Tools'. On that menu, for threads you started, will be the option 'Edit Title' and from there, I hope, it's easy.

Adam

 

[LarryG]

Before taking a job building livestock trailers and finding that timber had a lot going for it if adequately protected, I used to wonder why the LNER continued to build all-wooden coaches and apply ornate decoration when the other Big Four companies had simplified construction and livery following the early 1930's depression. The GWR and SR led the field with flush sided coaches albeit with glazing that was not as flush as in later years, while the LMS caught up in 1931. Things had moved on a lot by the mid 1930's and while the LNER dabbled with steel cladding or plywood, teak construction remained in the main. The LNER had to watch its pennies and had probably found that a well varnished teak coach on a stout underframe with buckeye couplings was a better investment than following the Jones's.

As with most things, time is the most telling factor and those LNER teak coaches lasted the course while the other three companies grappled with corrosion and expensive maintenance. BR was bedeviled with this on its Mk.I designs. Us older guys saw ex.LNER coaches with peeling red & cream paint, but paint simply did not adhere too well to varnish. It had nothing to do with rot.

 

[LarryG]

After sitting around on my workbench for a week, the Gresley open third was done yesterday. Current thinking is this is the last, but there's a teeeeny chance I might complete the second Gresley before packing in. I'm giving it away and so it is not weathered...

 

[parky]

Outstanding work as ever. Hopefully you will still keep us educated with your wealth of knowledge on all things coach wise

 

[LarryG]

20 months since I last posted. I recently came across some thumbnails while having a folder clearout. I built the GCR 'Barnum' from an elderly kit, although some deviation was called for to suit my way of constructing coaches. In fact I soldered the body sides ad ends to one of my LMS chassis and solebars. MJT trussing was used even though it was not strictly prototypical.



The Barnums may have looked impressive from the outside, but they were little different inside from other open coaches. The seat ends were my own etchings from a Midland Diner, but they served their purpose...


The long hand rails were etched on the corner of one of my regular coaches and they saved a lot of trouble. I made the lavatory windows from sime mottled plastic (a baking matt I think) and drew the coat of arms in pencil from the back of the wet paint....


The 10.6 w.b. bogies were my own castings produced in the early 1980's. The 'patterns' were sold to Westward Models but they have gotten around a bit since that time. Buffers were Comet LMS Oval type....


A 1910 built 'Barnum' in traffic on the 2.02pm Hull-Liverpool L.S. at Saddleworth. The white WC windows stands out on the teak painted stock. The sixth coach is ex.LMS in BR blood & custard...

Photo by Jim Davenport

 

[LarryG]

Another ex. Great Central coach, this time built during the steam-railmotor era in 1905. Three of these 60' 12-wheelers were built as trailer coaches. With the demise of steam railmotors, they were adapted for use in push-pull trains using mechanical linkages. This was replaced in the early to mid 1930's with auto-vacuum gear...


Seating was very austere more to suit the working man than anything else. I saw them on Oldham-Guide Bridge trains and they were still in brown livery when they disappeared in the md 1950's. I used MR bogies. Bill Bedford produced the body etchings. for the narrow low-profile roof, I was fortunate to have a couple of lengths of Wheeltapper (ex .PC Models) extrusions...


C13 No. 67417 propelling GCR clerestory composite No. 5821 to Dia. 147A, and 12-wheel driving trailer No. 50904 towards Park Bridge shortly after departing Oldham Glodwick Road...

 

[Dave Holt]

Larry,
Here's you ex-GCR coach after conversion to P4.

Just need the C13 now!
Dave.

 

[76043]

Larry, I haven't looked around at all, but is your shade of LNER/BR coach brown available as an off the shelf rattle can? Ideally in the Halfords range? I suspect not, but if you don't ask you'll never know.

Do you also consider this also to be "Stratford brown" or is that yet another shade?

Thanks for any pointers.
Tony

 

[Bill Bedford]

The 60' 12 wheel coaches were built as push & pull coaches and originally ran with class 12AM 2-4-0 tanks.

 

[LarryG]

Looking good there Dave. You made a good job of converting the bogies to P4. Will you be building a C13 one day. I had a whitemetal one and it was bigger than I expected it to be having seen the real ones.

Bill Bedford, the story of these coaches is covered in my book 'Delph to Oldham'. Friend Eddie Johnson, an authority on GCR matters, turned up a pile of history, drawings and photos and passed them on to me. They were built as driving trailers (in 1905) to accompany steam railmotors and were only adapted to work with locomotives when steam railmotors fell out of favour. I seem to remember some changes to the interior also took place.

Tony 76043, I mixed the colour from my memory of seeing these coaches on a regular basis, so I'm afraid there is nothing scientific about it. You might find something similar in Halfords auto range of aerosol's.

 

[Bill Bedford]

I've never seen a photo of a steam railmotor and one of these 12 wheelers working together.

Four class 12AT tanks were fitted with push and pull gear to become class 12AM in 1905. So it didn't take long for the powers that be to decide that none of the steam railmotors had the capacity to work with these heavy 12 wheelers. Actually, I would question whether these coaches ever ran paired in service.

 

[Dave Holt]

Hi Larry.
The truth is I didn't convert the bogies, I built new ones. If I recall, they're Comet LMS type, which are not quite right but look OK. On each bogie, one outer axle is fixed and the other rocks on a centre beam. The middle axle is sprung. One bogie has side bearers, so can only rock fore/aft whilst the other rests on a tube round the mounting screw, so is free to rock in any plane.
The other coach you did has Brassmasters rocking frame suspension and home made cosmetic outers with the characteristic angles bracing struts and GCR axlebox/spring castings from Wizard Models.

I do have some parts for a C13 tank. I acquired a fully assembled Nucast version from ebay but it was awfully built. Several days soaking in cellulose thinners to remove the paint actually resulted in a kit of parts, as it disolved/softened the glue used in assembly. Since then, a Scalefour member has provided a set of profile milled brass components for the body and frames, so I'll use those for the main structure and just some of the Nucast bits for detail. It's not top of my "to do" list, so it may be some time.
Dave.

 

[76043]

Thank you Larry. My broad view on paint matching is if it's close enough, it's good enough.

This was an old maxim from my professional modelmaking days, and has always served me well.

Tony