How much! (By page 1 mega cheap) Heljan Dogfish V The Cambrian C12 Dogfish Build

Discussion in 'Area 51' started by AdeMoore, 25 June 2020.

  1. Pencarrow

    Pencarrow Western Thunderer

    We did say they weren't quick & easy kits to build ;). At minimum wage it would have cost you over £60 plus materials to date :)). Makes RTR seem cheap by comparison!
    AdeMoore likes this.
  2. AdeMoore

    AdeMoore Western Thunderer

    Thanks Chris you did indeed, I’ll show what it is at the end I have a feeling it’ll be double that, so the Kernow offering is mega cheap! Be interesting to see what I knock it down to on the second one.
    I wonder how long you Adam and all the other experienced modellers here would take? Probably where I am now or less?
    I’d edit the title of the thread but can’t see how! to Mega cheap compared to a C12!
    Until next time.
  3. AJC

    AJC Western Thunderer

    It'll be quicker. If you want to take the long view, it was probably 20 years before I got a model I was happy with out of the first one! Probably best not to cost that, but at least the wheels were free. ;) You can edit the title using the 'Thread Tools' button top left.

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  4. AdeMoore

    AdeMoore Western Thunderer

    20 years wow! Adam just 18 to go then. I think I’ll dig deep well not as it happens from evidence above and get some Heljan ones! But my time doing my hobby is FOC I love doing it, I started out wondering what the build time would be and then how time and materials would fair to the Kernow Heljan price. I did think I’d be far closer than is going to be the case.
    Cheers for the replies.
    AJC likes this.
  5. AdeMoore

    AdeMoore Western Thunderer

    Brakes glued on, need better location and fettling out on next one.
    E7CC18CF-75FF-4A80-91B8-DEFFB1F645DE.jpeg 86BE762A-64CB-4BAA-9C00-A700D71D2D04.jpeg

    Brake wheel thinned down not sure it was worth it.
    Wire for the wheels a bit on the thin side.

    7F4A0C24-AFD6-49A9-BEEC-86A1FBAC53EC.jpeg A8181D52-0496-4671-9F7D-A5E432A32A7C.jpeg 98E029A9-C45C-4915-95E5-FD789550C597.jpeg

    Went with the brake wheel off the fret on the other side for comparison.

    5DC086D6-AE9D-46DF-87A0-E10E58A392EF.jpeg 4D234637-5E93-44B7-88C1-2DBE616FEEA8.jpeg

    The angle iron struts needed much thinning down.
    0862E8C1-C79A-4945-9C1E-9C08C08A2490.jpeg FCE7D0F4-DDFB-4680-90C4-6537F8D76B93.jpeg

    The vac tank was not central, the moulding is off on the location peg. I thought leaving it wouldn’t notice but it does.
    I’m going with it now though need to get it done.
    The Tamiya poly cement is quite strong on this plastic and melts a little more than I’d like as can be seen.
    Painting next before anymore gets glued on.
    Thanks for looking in.
    Until next time
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  6. AdeMoore

    AdeMoore Western Thunderer

    More not in the van at lunch but sunny Cornwall this evening.
    Humbrol leather? All over.
    93D5D215-1948-4654-BFC2-4A164E4BA6BB.jpeg 8618137B-BA47-410B-9F23-201FC0E35AB1.jpeg

    Then stage 2 add just bog standard PVA where the rust is to blister back through.

    6BA637FB-48F6-4C3C-B3C9-31028BC52BBB.jpeg 86D980AF-C14E-450F-80DC-9DE7218F2F90.jpeg DB5E49CE-1CCC-4EDD-869A-7B48321EE524.jpeg

    Last up can you tell what it is yet! Probably not a catch phrase you should repeat these days! But hey...


    Thanks for looking in.
    Until next time.
  7. AdeMoore

    AdeMoore Western Thunderer

    On went the matt Black! But this new tin is far from matt black, should send it back really can’t believe the humbrol base is affecting it.
    Unfortunately I’d left the PVA on 48 hrs until putting the black on which I only left 4 or 5 hours before attacking it with the shortened bristled tooth brush. Not as recommended and I did on the mineral wagon documented here. The peeling effect was not achieved unfortunately.

    A0D32CEA-6A4F-4845-BD72-0C09214E5EF7.jpeg 365E326C-5CE7-4702-A73B-24F0357A79D7.jpeg 33BE950B-BA00-4C24-8163-6F9772F65062.jpeg 7CFD880A-AB68-4A53-820B-236E90BA803C.jpeg 336591DD-1E6E-47D9-AA6B-F2D7D3CD57AB.jpeg

    Add some weathering powders see if I can rescue it.
    Thanks for looking in.
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  8. AdeMoore

    AdeMoore Western Thunderer

    Ummm it’s not going well!
    Probably time to give up and get ack to the layout!
    Just lost any artistry with the brush weathering or anything.


    I went for the fibreglass brush to flatten the none matt matt black it is the old 62 colour making shiny somehow as under the chute I had no 62 colour on and it went matt. So I do need a new tin or go to mig or one of the others I e been reading about. The 2nd panel I dislike with the vertical scratches but that was where I had to get a paint brush hair off!


    The inside I’m not too displeased with as I plan a removable load that will cover it when I decide it’s actually not that good.


    Next I tried some stone dust effect, which I tried with powdered colour pastels I’d read about then a waft of matt varnish to hold. Perhaps it needed another waft but it didn’t fix. Couldn’t get enough to stick for the effect I was after anyway!


    Lastly I was after an effect like @NHY581 Rob achieves here Sheep blokes weathering. see the 16T mineral there. I’ve read his descriptions before and even spoke to Rob personally but try as I might I can’t get the powder A to stick and B on in such small concentrated amounts with any tiny brush I try. I’m using humbrol powders same as him they maybe are a bit old. Dunno.
    I managed this before.

    9B644EC6-86C6-4154-B15C-3CC782ACCCD8.jpeg A9D922AE-7C95-4E70-A1B7-98DA0F44292C.jpeg

    So as you can see it’s not going well compared to that.
    I may just finish putting the rest of the bits on couplings hand wheels handrail err. That I left off for painting and see if inspiration takes me.
    Cheers all
    Last edited: 19 September 2020
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  9. jonte

    jonte Western Thunderer

    I feel your pain, Ade, I really do.

    It really is a trial this weathering business, for me anyway. I find sometimes I’m up, sometimes I’m down but mostly down....

    Not that I’m particularly experienced in this field or any other, but perhaps the little knowledge I’ve gained over the years might be of use if you don’t mind my sharing It?

    In anticipation that you won’t mind, I’ll throw in my tuppence halfpenny’s worth which I sincerely hope n trust might be of use; please feel free to ignore.

    Like you, I prefer to mix up my own shades of rust from Humbrol enamels - acrylics will probably achieve the same, only I’m more used to the enamels. I find that a range of colours on a mixed palette allows you those slight nuances that real rust has and provides a more seamless transformation from one shade to another that I feel the pre-prepared products don’t provide. Perhaps Im just kidding myself thinking this, but I like to think that I can see it anyway. This is not a criticism of these excellent products on the market used by masters of the art such as Rob to achieve these wonderful effects, it’s just a personal thoing.....

    Here’s my recipe for ‘rust’:

    Matt 62 (Your good friend ‘Leather’ which you’ve already used to good effect)
    Matt 160
    Matt 70
    Matt 119
    Matt 82 (Orange)
    Matt 33 Black

    All Humbrol enamels, and apologies for not recalling the names of each.

    Here’s a makeshift mixing chart to give you an idea of what shades can be achieved:


    Not definitive by any means, but enough for this less than average trier.

    The Orange isn’t shown on this chart but can be seen mixed with say leather (62) on the following to give you an idea:


    The iPad camera shows this a little lighter than it is, but of course, this is what the black and darker browns can help with if you want to darken the shade.

    What do they look like on a model?

    Here a couple of examples. The first is my current project which features an ‘orangey’ effect so typical of many weather beaten corrugated rooves:


    Still a work in progress, but you can get an idea of what can be achieved as I say, Ade.

    A darker shade can be seen on the down pipes of this recently binned station building that was never a serious project, and was mixed with the darker shades plus a tad of black:

    3F8DE69A-832D-4CE3-9879-F56DADFAF08C.jpeg 8FC8A43E-0991-4353-B5F2-881F1EA355AE.jpeg

    And here’s something in between which I think makes a good starting point:


    I apply as washes initially, then dry-brush towards the end, but I suppose there are better ways of applying it.

    The PVA is something I would shy away from: too aggressive and permanent as you've found to your cost.

    There are many products on the market - I’ve a MIG chipping product somewhere which I’ve yet to use, but as it’s meant for acrylics, I’ve yet to give it a go but I’ve read military modelling/Sci-fi mags where I’ve seen it used to great effect, and of course, there’s the good ol’ salt n water method - but I tend to use Maskol which isn’t as aggressive or permanent:


    It’s just artists latex masking sold by Humbrol, so if you’ve some of it around, it will probably work.

    Hope I’m not telling the proverbial granny here, Ade, and I’ve no doubt you know much of this already, but just in case you might have forgotten.....

    As I say, please feel free to ignore any or all of these well-intended mutterings, but they seem (I hope) to work for this limited modeller.

    Good luck anyway, Ade. You’ll get there in the end.


    Edit: Here’s the roof in a different light to try and give a more balanced look of the finish:


    Last edited: 19 September 2020
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  10. AdeMoore

    AdeMoore Western Thunderer

    Jonte thanks for taking the time in your extensive reply. I’ve also amended my post I put 33 when I meant 62 leather! Cheers.
    Most helpful and supportive.
    There certainly is some ground you cover there.
    Some wonderful effects you are achieving with the Maskol, I don’t have any so I’ll have to get some.
    The PVA technique is what I used on the Mineral to good effect I thought! I found it on YouTube But the 24 hrs between processes is crucial and I was daft trying that on holiday when I couldn’t commit time to it.
    The colour chart you have produced is very clear and concise not something I’ve tried.
    Mine was done with powderers mixed in not various humbrol colours. I need to invest I feel!
    Binned Station! Looked good enough to sell to me.
    I need to have another conversation with Rob on getting powders to stick and application of tiny amounts of powder.
    I’m not sure what to do, a repaint is on the cards definitely but undecided whether to strip it first. Worried glue may let go!
    Cheers again Jonte
    jonte likes this.
  11. Western age

    Western age Active Member

    Poundland are selling , for the next few weeks , some Halloween items including a useful size bottle of kiddy-safe Latex , used in a similar way to MASKOL meant to be peeled off the face, £1 a bottle of course...
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  12. DougT

    DougT Western Thunderer

    Don’t know if you’ve seen this video/technique for weathering from Humbrol. The first demo is weathering a 21t coal hopper.

    Yes, it’s RTR but the principle of finishing it first and then ‘defacing’ seems sound and has worked for me. And if it goes wrong cleaning it back carefully with thinners gets you back towards a less weathered model. Might be worth a try?
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  13. AdeMoore

    AdeMoore Western Thunderer

    Doug I had seen that a bit back ago.
    Thanks for the reminder.
    I’ll study it again it’s handy as it’s not airbrush based. Which a lot are on YouTube.
    Still undecided whether to strip it or just paint over it.
    DougT likes this.
  14. AdeMoore

    AdeMoore Western Thunderer

    All is not lost!
    1 panel done powder flattened a bit after photo as it was looking a bit heavy.

    Think I can avoid a repaint used Jonte tip made my own rust colour and added powder to that. The crucial bit was I was using cheap nasty brushes I thought( bugger it I’ll use a quality brush and waste it on weathering oh the difference!
    Cheers all.
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  15. LarryG

    LarryG Western Thunderer

    I was intrigued by Jonte's "recently binned building". Excuse my French but everything about it from brickwork to roof to signs look bloody terrific to me.
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  16. In my vastly small amount of experience of weathering, I found it to be daunting. I went with baby steps, adding just small amounts at a time. You can always add more but, its harder to remove it. I always liked the look of weathering powders for effects and finishes that blend. There are a plethora of videos out there of really effective finishes. Alas, I have not yet made that step to try some out.

    This is my 20. In images I have found, they are such filthy so and so's... I chickened out at this level of grime. I would love to see what powders would add to this, one day... That said, I think that's the beauty of weathering. There are no real limitations of how clean or dirty something can look. Its all down to you. :)
    Super filth..
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  17. jonte

    jonte Western Thunderer

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  18. jonte

    jonte Western Thunderer


    Thank you, Larry.

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  19. jonte

    jonte Western Thunderer

    Hi Richard and welcome to WT

    Apologies - probably me - but I can’t see the image(s) of your not-so-beat-up 20.

    AdeMoore likes this.
  20. 20200922_233120.jpg

    Hi Jonte,

    No problem, and thank you for the welcome :) I have tried to attached the image again. Hopefully it will come through this time :)

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