Jon Nazareth's G3 workbench

Steph Dale

Western Thunderer
Jon,
I guess you've got a few of those joint plates to make, are you using a pantograph mill or hand-cutting?
It's an interesting project although I'm struggling to get a feel for the size!
Cheers,
Steph
 

Jon Nazareth

Western Thunderer
Adrian/Steph
I'm not sure what SWAG stands for but yes, they are 1/16" rivets and the plates above are 1 1/4" x 7/8". The largest plate will be 1 5/16" x 1" and there are, for the bridge sides, a total of 32 plates. When it comes to joining the two sides together, the number of plates should increase by another 32, at least. I'm roughly cutting out the plates with an hacksaw, cleaning them up, gluing them together with super glue and then machining them to shape on the mill. In the case of the four above, they were marked out after milling and drilled while still glued together although they did start to fall apart but I simply bolted them together with 10BA bolts and carried on. I don't have a pantograph and although I would like one, I'd have to do a lot of rearranging of the shed to fit one in. With regards to size, Steph, I've attached a couple of pictures. If it is scale, these are both Open As of the LBSCR but one is O gauge and the other G3. If it's the bridge then, it will be something in the region of 1200mm long x 260mm high x 190mm wide.

Jon

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geoff_nicholls

Western Thunderer
Jon,
I notice you've painted the insides of your wagons grey, was that an LBSC standard? Many railways, like (I believe) the Great Eastern did not paint the insides of open wagons. it was suggested to me that the internal strapping and knees would be black, as those parts would be dipped in black paint before assembly
 

Jon Nazareth

Western Thunderer
Dear Geoff

I used to paint the inside of my 7mm wagons a sort of natural timber colour but my confidence with hand painting has gone out of the window for some reason and now, I take the easy way out. Interesting that you posted this question as only this morning I was wondering how easy/difficult it would be to attempt spraying the insides of my wagons. Trouble is, I just know that I'll get paint creep :)

Regards
Jon
 

jamiepage

Western Thunderer
Jon,
I have been looking for a reference to the painting of early open wagons in a 'lead' colour internally, which I recall from somewhere. It may have been an LSWR specification, but if I find it shall pass it on.
For what it's worth, the attached photos show a S7 wagon I built a few years ago, using a pretty straightforward technique for the wood colouring. Planking was scored first in the normal way, and whilst the components were still separate, each inner surface was rubbed over with coarse sandpaper to form some surface texture. The occasional piece was also worried with a scriber , trying not to overdo it.
A single coat of cream paint was then applied and allowed to harden off. When fully dry, thin shades of brown were rubbed along the graining with finger in a rag, all to taste, but the work of a moment.
Internal detail pre- painted black was then affixed after judicious scraping back of the paint to give the solvent some purchase. Similar scratching away at the joints allowed the main pieces to be assembled as normal, then the interior masked was for spraying on completion.
I haven't tried it on a G3 model yet, but it might work, especially with the internal strapping added with functional bolts etc.
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pakpaul

Western Thunderer
Jamie

I also recalled an LSWR specification for painting the inside of an open wagon lead colour. I eventually found it on page 58 Southern Style - Part 1, LSWR HMRS; which states this to be current for 1912.

Paul
 

jamiepage

Western Thunderer
Scott, thank you very much. Unfortunately, the weathering on the outside didn't go so well, looking distinctly second rate.
Paul, thank you, that's splendid. I will look it up.
 

Jon Nazareth

Western Thunderer
I managed to lay some more track and then I took it up and re-laid it :(. I built this wall some 25 years ago and always thought that it had a gentle curve to it but that was before I tried laying track et al. This whole experience has shown me that I didn't build a curved wall at all but a wall with curves joined by straight sections :rant:. If I had known all those years ago that I would need it for a garden railway, I obviously would have tried much harder.
There will be another 3 feet or so of track fixed to the wall then there will be 1150mm of bridge. Not thought too much about how the bridge will be supported at this stage, a bit odd I'll admit. Hopefully the bridge material will arrive at the end of next week and when it does, that will be my main G3 project until it's finished.

Jon

P.S. One of the reasons, apart from the strange shape of the wall, for re-laying was that I didn't allow enough clearance from track to wall and feared a lot of paint would be scratched off rolling stock if I didn't do something about it.

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Jon Nazareth

Western Thunderer
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I've started to rivet up some of the cleats on my bridge. I've made quite a few mistakes in the marking out and drilling of these cleats but, hopefully, I can iron them out as I go along. I'm using the hand held riveting tool, shown above to set the rivets. What I am finding though, is that the action of setting the rivets is crushing the aluminium slightly causing this long section to bow at each cleat position. After fixing the rivets/cleats, I'm having to straighten out the extrusion as best I can. I don't think that this will happen when I rivet the various other short sections as the rivets are all in the very ends. I've three other long sections on the bridge and I don't want them to distort in this fashion. My thoughts on stopping for the night are that I am going to have to revert back to my original thinking of putting a 10BA thread onto a lot of brass rivets :(. Off the top of my head, I think that this will be something in the region of 200 rivets and I'll be using the tool that Pakpaul designed...once I've made it.
In hind sight, always a good thing, it would have been better to have had a single row of rivets located centrally on the cleat/extrusion which, I think would have lessened if not removed completely the risk of distortion. The reason that I used two rows of rivets is because I thought it 'looked' much better.
Time for a large glass of wine :)

Jon
 

jamiepage

Western Thunderer
Jon,
just a few thoughts before turning to cutting threads.
1. What rivets are you squashing? If brass, perhaps copper would do? (Assuming they would be strong enough).
2. Are the snaps in the tool the correct size? In other words do all the 'squashing' forces act only on the rivet ends rather than the adjacent aluminium as well? Technically if all the rivetting forces are acting straight through the rivet only, and the rivets are soft enough, there should be little distortion of the piece itself.
3. Would it be acceptable to use nuts and bolts for the problem areas, and rivets elsewhere? There must be a prototypical precedent somewhere.
 

jamiepage

Western Thunderer
Or, EKP Supplies are advertising roundheaded steel screws without slots on their website. Both 7BA and 10BA are listed.
 

Jon Nazareth

Western Thunderer
Jamie
They are copper rivets and all 'squashing' is done squarely. The problem is, I am too close to the edge because I marked out and drilled the plates incorrectly consequently, I am having to move them closer to the top edge of the ali angle and this is where the problem arises. A bit of a b----- but can't do anything about it unless I make new plates and I don't fancy doing that. I had already thought of using some rivets and some bolts to cut down on the number that I have to produce and once painted, I don't think would show too much. Thank you for the tip re EKP supplies but I would like to try and stay with brass and/or copper for the fixings as it will be staying outdoors but I will look at their website. I do tend to struggle with my projects but I do get there in the end even though it takes me much longer and costs me more than anyone else doing the same thing :).

Jon
 
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