LarryG's loco & coach WB (4mm/00)

Discussion in 'Workbenches, including workshop techniques.' started by LarryG, 31 January 2019.

  1. LarryG

    LarryG Western Thunderer

    Some forum members will be aware I have been building LMS and GWR carriages in readiness for Ruabon, which is to be my next layout project. The Midland D1284 brake third was the first corridor coach I chose to etch back in 2005. The coach seen below was a completely new re-tool done in 2013 by my friend John Fozard shortly before his death. Quite simply, I wanted one on my layout in his memory.

    The MR D1284 was the true progenitor of the LMS Period I coach with its deep trussrods supporting two battery boxes. The last vehicle was built under LMS auspices in 1924. At least one received BR post-1956 lined maroon.

    Initially I mounted it on my own whitemetal bogies. Ignore the roof which is mounted the wrong way round....
    WEB D1284 1.jpg WEB D1284 2.jpg
    Then yesterday I found a box of Shapeways LMS bogies with NEM sockets that I had purchased from Bill Bedford some years ago. This discovery allows me to fit Kadee couplings to brake end coaches so that they will couple to the locos....
    WEB Shapeways bogies.jpg
    The only downside is the bogies are too frail to drill out to take etched stepboards...
    WEB D1284 4.jpg
    Last edited: 31 January 2019
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  2. simond

    simond Western Thunderer


    forgive me if it's a daft question, but what scale?

  3. LarryG

    LarryG Western Thunderer

    Apologies. 4mm scale /00 gauge. The final touch before spraying takes place is the addition of the middle and top door hinges. These are slivers of 5thou Plastikard glued into the door grooves with Loctite. Destination brackets are of the same material. Such detail comes into its own when weathering models. The bottom hinges are brass....
    WEB D1284 5.jpg
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  4. iak63

    iak63 Western Thunderer

    Nice to see your beasties here abouts Larry.
    As ever, this is a fine looking carriage and it is nice to see that it is one of Johns...
  5. LarryG

    LarryG Western Thunderer

    Thank you for your comments and 'likes'. I will try to keep things interesting and useful.

    The coach is currently in Halfords Acid #8 etching primer applied straight from the rattle-can. I heat the sprayshop to burn off any dampness in the air, then let it cool before spraying on this primer. The longer it is wet, the more it is etching into the metal. Normal procedure will take over when the colours are sprayed on tomorrow, ie: warm shed up to 70 degrees (old money) beforehand.

    The luggage and guards doors on the prototype were slightly recessed. To do on a model involves a lot of extra work that might be considered worthwhile on an exhibition exhibit. Rightly or wrongly, I tend to go in for 'layout' coaches.
    Last edited: 31 January 2019
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  6. Rob Pulham

    Rob Pulham Western Thunderer

    Hi Larry,

    Welcome to WT, it's great to see you here:thumbs:
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  7. Phil O

    Phil O Western Thunderer


    Good too see you back in action.

    LarryG likes this.
  8. Ressaldar

    Ressaldar Western Thunderer

    Hi Larry,

    good to see you back at the bench. Looking forward to seeing more progress photos.

    kind regards

    LarryG likes this.
  9. LarryG

    LarryG Western Thunderer

    I think forums are horses for courses. I spent six months somewhere else and have every respect for that forum and its owners, but I missed the interaction between modellers. Because so many modelling names are familiar to me, I feel at home here already,
  10. Cliff Williams

    Cliff Williams Western Thunderer

    Look forward to seeing more of your work, your earlier project of Carrog was similar to my Arley in O and was one of the few reasons that kept me checking in to t’other place.
    LarryG likes this.
  11. LarryG

    LarryG Western Thunderer

    Black lines to show where to mask off for the camine red were ruled on in cellulose using a draftsman's bow-pen, then masking tape was applied...
    WEB D1284 6.jpg
    Colour is a touchy subject so all I will say is I have my own concoction for "carmine red" in cellulose paint, then while still wet, I over-spray it with Halfords Ford Rosso red to give me the colour I want. It represents the red after it has bleached slightly in traffic. I then add weathering using lots of white spirit and Phoenix-Precision P981 Dirty Black.....
    WEB D1284 10.jpg
    For rust, I brush on Humbrol 16421 Dark Earth Weathering Powder. This highlights the lazy-etching that produces matchboard ends with overlayed detail in a single process. I first used it many years ago when hand-drawing artwork for etching bus radiators....
    WEB D1284 7.jpg
    The MR D1284 ready for traffic. Muck tended to gather under the raised beading and behind handrails etc...
    WEB D1284 8.jpg WEB D1284 9.jpg
  12. warren haywood

    warren haywood Western Thunderer

    Hardest colour of the lot to get correct (is there a ‘correct’) Larry
    I do it slightly different but similar
    I have also concocted a colour that looks close in celly but I vary the base coat for different effects.
    Out of shops I use crimson lake base with the crimson on top. This gives a rich colour but noticeabley lighter than the crimson lake.
    For the redder faded colour I spray a signal red base coat first.
    Like I said, it’s a weird colour that changes so much in different lights.
    Lovely model by the way:thumbs:
    Rob Pulham, P A D and LarryG like this.
  13. LarryG

    LarryG Western Thunderer

    Thanks Warren. Good to hear another full-time model painters point of view. For 'blood', my customers get a fixed shade because they prefer matching coaches in finish.
  14. LarryG

    LarryG Western Thunderer

    Among the brass coaches are quite a good number of RTR. Not only are they time savers, but I for one could not build a Hawksworth coach that would come even close to that produced by Hornby. I always re-spray the bottom half by decanting Ford Rosso Red into the spraygun....
    WEB Hawksworth 2.jpg
    The first class seats were painted a lighter blue to show through the windows, and cream panels were added to the corridor partition. Compartment walls were painted GWR cream to represent 'Holoplast' finish...
    WEB Hawksworth 0.jpg
    After re-lining out the waist, adding 'Methfix' transfers and varnishing with Halfords Satin Lacquer (decanted from the rattle-can into the spraygun, the coach was weathered as per the earlier Midland Railway brake third...
    WEB Hawksworth 1.jpg
    This one was sprayed BR maroon with Leyland Damask Red on top of a glossy red oxide undercoat. Shortly afterwards, it was donated to another layout when I decided to model the early 1950's...
    WEB Hawksworth 3.jpg
    Last edited: 2 February 2019
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  15. P A D

    P A D Western Thunderer

    Hi Larry,
    Superb work as always, but may I ask if by " bow-pen" you mean a ruling/drawing pen?

    The black handled pens in this set are ruling/drawing pens. The bow pen is the small compass with ink point, 4th from top on the right.

    I'm curious if you have used a bow pen to draw the lines by off-setting from the top edge of the coach, or have in fact used a drawing pen with a ruler.

    I seem to recall from one of your posts on RMweb some time ago, that you started out using a bow compass with ink point (bow pen) that was your father's, until it was damaged. Were you using that for both off-set lining and lining with a ruler?
  16. LarryG

    LarryG Western Thunderer

    Technically the four pens and two compasses that I have always used are drawing pens. The black and yellow lines were drawn against a ruler.
    Last edited: 3 February 2019
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  17. LarryG

    LarryG Western Thunderer

    Hornby's Collett Bow-End coaches of the 1920's are superb models. I had a spare brake third and decided to convert it into a K38 full brake. Etched sides are Comet from Wizard Models. The GWR Diagram K38's were built in 1926, numbers 1169 - 74 and shortly after construction were branded for the 'Ocean Mails' services. Such branding had disappeared by BR days. The fist thing I did was carefully remove the plastic sides and then all the roof vents...
    WEB Brass sides 0.jpg
    The brass sides were then detailed with door hinges (Plastikard) and Roxey Mouldings 4A108 door handles and 4A115 GWR 'G' grab handles etc...
    WEB brass sides 1.jpg
    A strip of brass some 4mm wide was soldered along the top of the side to act as a strengthener and a platform for glue ...
    WEB brass sides 2.jpg
    The sides were glued to the roof with Evostick and to the ends with Loctite....
    WEB brass sides 3.jpg
    The real K38's had small stepboards under each set of doors . I settled for keeping the full-length stepboards intact rather than damage the solebars, a compromise I can live with....
    WEB Brass sides 4.jpg
    The livery is plain BR carmine red. I sprayed the coach with a darker red and finished it with a light coat of Halfords Ford Rosso Red. The model was varnished with Halfords Satin Lacquer sprayed through my spraygun to give quite a matt finish, then it was weathered as per previously mentioned coaches....
    WEB Brass sides 5.jpg
    A Close up of the bogie rust-dust weathering and oil marks. Regarding the window security bars, the horizontal lines were ruled in black paint while the vertical bars were scribed on with a new knife blade. Note the horozontal grab handle end mountings. These are Plastikard filed down to around 2.5 thou thickness....
    WEB Brass sides 6.jpg
    Last edited: 3 February 2019
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  18. P A D

    P A D Western Thunderer

    Thanks Larry.

    Technically they are all drawing instruments. Either drawing pen, spring bow pen or bow pen. I have no idea why the smaller (@ 3.5 inch) instruments are know as bow or spring bow compasses.

    Cheers ,
  19. JimG

    JimG Western Thunderer

    How? I've often wondered how to do this without getting paint everywhere. :)

  20. LarryG

    LarryG Western Thunderer

    I spray the paint from the rattle-can onto the side of the spraygun cup so that it runs down inside.
    Last edited: 4 February 2019
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