LEE MARSH NEW SR PROJECTS

[Steph Dale]

Difficult one to call there, Martin,

737 isn't your average common or garden heritage repaint. It was repainted at Ashford, apparently to the original livery specifications. One of the reasons that discussions around repainting or otherwise restoring it are so contentious.

I'll have to see if I can make out the details around the safety valve lever, sanders and reversing cylinder in any early photos of the class I have. Of course, they'll be in black and white, which will make the exercise all the more entertaining.

Steph

 

[adrian]

There is some contradiction here, your photo of 737 at York shows the safety valve easing lever to be unpainted and the sandpipes red, as it is I feel, without evidentiary backup, that Lee rather than the NRM has it right.

but then again if Warren's paint job is a commission to represent 737 as preserved in the NRM then it seems to be correct to me. At the end of the day (from experience when my Dad was in the 7mm loco building business) if the customer is happy then the job is a good one! Together we built a couple of loco's we knew to be wrong but the customer was paying so who we're we to argue! Prototypical fidelity is laudable but some times it's a case of he who pays says!

 

[warren haywood]

I’ve two commission to build and paint 737 in the next year, both as per the loco at York. I have been recently and taken loads of pictures of the loco so no excuses.
Regarding colour, the real 737 is a much deeper green than lees model (unless Cliffs Photography has brightened it), I painted the one I did in BS227 deep Brunswick green which is what I believe the real loco is in wether that’s historically correct is another matter. Over to Steph

 

[warren haywood]

Warren
There is some contradiction here, your photo of 737 at York shows the safety valve easing lever to be unpainted and the sandpipes red, as it is I feel, without evidentiary backup, that Lee rather than the NRM has it right. Having said that I think the shade of red on Lee's model sandpipes is wrong, as is also apparently the green on the tender vacuum pipe on your model. Deuced difficult stuff this colour lark, perhaps black and white is best.
Regards
Martin

Martin,
The rear vacuum pipe was an error, should have been black. Wasn’t noticed until after it went back to its owner.

 

[Martin Shaw]

Warren
Issues regarding the colour of paint on models have been around for all of my 65 years and likely sometime before then and I think a lot of unresolvable discussion occurs, which perhaps I am guilty of contributing to. Personally I feel the basic green on your model is too dark, but I have never seen a green painted SECR locomotive other than 737 or others in preservation, so who am I to judge and as Adrian reasonably points out, if the customer defines the requirement and is happy then all is well. Notwithstanding colour conversations, a nice piece of work.


If you follow Scottish heritage matters you will be aware that we returned 419 to traffic last November, in what is called Perth blue, which is a lot lighter than the St Rollox blue which is what most people call Caledonian Railway blue. The research and specification was done by the Caledonian Railway Association, most specifically by Jim MacIntosh who has written the book on the subject, and we are assured that within all the available evidence that the light blue is correct, yet many have commented that it doesn't look right, nor do I, however I do quite like the look of it. This has a parallel with 737 in that 123 is in the museum in Glasgow and was painted in 1959 and its shade of blue is dissimilar to both 828 and 419, which is correct nobody actually knows.

Steph

I acknowledge your basic premise that 737 was painted at Ashford to the original spec, however consider the safety valve lever, a steel component subject to variable weather conditions and also daily immersion in steam which would condense on it promoting rapid rust staining. It would require considerable cleaning on a daily basis and even allowing for the much higher standards of locomotive care in the Edwardian period it feels a step too far. I wonder whether the Ashford paintshop in reading the spec could have been misled by the absence of a specific instruction regarding this item and therefore left it unpainted. I know, I'm just trying to justify my position. I have found in a book about the P class two B&W pictures of the then new 753/4, and it appears that the safety valve lever is painted rather than unpainted, what colour is open to question.

Regards
Martin

 

[warren haywood]

Ok,
My model (toy train) is of the preserved engine, as at York and is the correct colour.
I have just read carter and it pretty much backs up that the standard colour is as Lees model.
However 734 was painted in an exhibition livery in 1901 in a much deeper green (Brunswick) for The Glasgow exhibition. This is the livery carried by 737 as applied at Ashford as Steph stated.
Hope that clears things up.

 

[Martin Shaw]

Thanks Warren, you have supplied an interesting piece of information that does indeed explain things.
Regards
Martin