LSWR Terrier No 734 4mm scale

Discussion in 'Workbenches, including workshop techniques.' started by Pushpull33, 26 December 2018.

  1. Pushpull33

    Pushpull33 Western Thunderer

    I thought it was time i posted something other than in the 'Cameo Competition' section. Some time ago i purchased an LSWR Terrier, an old Ks white metal kit that somebody had previously built. It was a none runner but the painting and lining on the body was superbly done. The whole kit looked very well put together. I could perhaps argue that the green is a shade on the light side but not letting myself be put off by this, i thought it could become part of a future layout. (i also have a Jidenco H13 to build).

    No 734 is one of a pair bought by the LSWR in 1903 to work the Lyme Regis branch.
    I would love to know who painted her because she looks stunning.
    On further inspection the chassis left a lot to be desired, things have moved on somewhat since she was built. A very thick framed brass chassis with Two of the bearing holes completely worn away, a huge X04 motor and picks ups on only the outer most axle, no back head or cab floor.
    Remembering that Comet (that was, now Wizard) produced a Chassis kit for the Terrier, realy, a replacement for the Hornby model, i wondered if it could be adapted as a replacement for this model.


    Chassis kit duly ordered and a chat to Chris Gibbon at High Level, a gearbox and motor were also duly ordered. Now me being me and always up for a challenge, i thought i would have a go at some sort of compensation. During the conversation with Chris, he sent me some of his wonderful Hornblocks.
    I have to stress that this is new to me so i thought this might be a good place to start.
    Those that know me are aware that i have built a few locos in my time but this was a whole new ball game for me, I mean, how difficult could it be!

    This is them!




    Well, that wasn't to difficult was it?
    The next problem to overcome was, we are going to have to split the connecting rods aren't we. Something else i haven't done before. You will gather from my excercises that i am not one for the tried and tested methods and tend to come up with some perhaps rather unorthodox ways of doing things.
    I can hear you shouting at the screen.
    Reading the instructions from comet, yes it does happen occasionally, it told you where to cut, HELPFUL.
    Of course, we need to make sure they are kept at the same length and are both the same, also noting that the Knuckle needs to be pointing to the front of the loco.
    A piece of ply came in handy for this.


    Knuckles duly drilled and riveted. all going good so far.


    We have Two coupling rods. I have resoldered the top one as you can see the top and bottom are slightly off. Its amazing what you see in a photo.

    Time to turn to the chassis. Can you use the 'Pine Road chassis jig' to set up Hornblocks?, answer is, yes you can. Using the piece of ply i made up earlier for the con rods, this is how it looks.

    It all looks good so far and all seems to line up.


    Final photo for tonight. We have a problem, because from hear on its all new to me, how are we going to make it spring. The original idea of a rocker centrally mounted between the Two front Axles has gone out of the window as there is a great big hole in the way. I have a plan baldrick, if this actually ever runs i will be amazed but hey, you have to have a go, doesn't one.

    As far as it goes at the moment until i have time for another play.
    jonte, Pencarrow, Rob Pulham and 5 others like this.
  2. adrian

    adrian Flying Squad

    Agreed the paint job does look very good. Not sure about the number and lettering on the tanks but the number on the front buffer beam appears to be hand painted and not transfers - in which case extremely impressive.

    The one plus point I would say for the original chassis is that they appeared to use steel for the rods. Sorry but it's a pet soapbox for me - people seem to stress out over the exact loco colour but are quite content with nickel rods which to my view are nothing like steel coloured rods. :confused:
  3. Overseer

    Overseer Western Thunderer

    While I agree with Adrian that only steel looks like clean, polished steel rods the real thing rarely had clean polished rods. I think nickel silver can look perfectly acceptable for oily, in service coupling rods with a bit of weathering.

    Are the leading horn guides intentionally installed at an angle from vertical? If not I suggest straightening them to vertical to avoid binding of the rods when the axle moves from the central position. It is easy to do with the frames assembled, just find a spring or wind one from a piece of wire and place over the axle then heat and rotate the horn guides (with the jig axles and coupling rods making sure the centres are maintained).
  4. AJC

    AJC Western Thunderer

    I'd agree with Fraser (Overseer) on the hornguides. They really should be vertical. Where is the compensation beam going? Will you be using the brake hanger holes for the beam pivot (it's in just about the right place and there isn't a lot of frame).

    A couple of points to bear in mind with the Comet chassis from my experience with it which might or might not bother you.

    1. The brakeshoes supplied are significantly overscale. Wizard Models now do the etch of loco brakeshoes from Mainly Trains which include hangers and shoes suitable for a Terrier; these are better. MT182: SR Loco Brake Shoes & Hangers (7 sets) - Wizard Models Limited
    2. The same goes for the brake pull rods and this might well be a problem if you're using Gibson wheels: clearance at the back end for the read crankpins is very limited (I used pull rods from the Branchlines; kit on mine); Romfords might well be even more ticklish.
    3. The rods will also benefit form being dressed as those on a real Terrier are delicate: Comet's are chunky.

    jonte likes this.
  5. Threadmark: Lswr terrier

    Pushpull33 Western Thunderer

    Thanks guys. Any advice greatly received.
    The connecting rods will be painted/weathered, i'm not one for shinny rods. As Adam has mentioned, i have a set of the Wizard models SR brake shoes and they do look a lot finner. I was a bit concerned about fitting the comet ones, they look big and bulky and would i get enough clearance to allow up and down movement between wheel and brake shoe.

    I am using romford wheels and axles. eek!

    That was my plan Adam, to use the break hanger holes for the beam, a bit of playing around but i think it could work. As you say, there isn't a lot of frame.

    Regarding the Hornblock guides being vertical i understand that they probably should be, as this is new to me, with axle and connecting rods fitted there is no interruption in movement they seem to want to sit slightly off vertical. As the rear axle is the fixed point the chassis would move up and down in a slight arch type fashion. I take your point tho Fraser as that isn't quite how it would work, i am learning. Of course they would rock between the centre point of the Two front axle. I understand your idea of a spring on the axles between the hornblocks.

    Thanks again guys.
  6. AJC

    AJC Western Thunderer

    Hi Colin,

    Having just turner my model of Brighton Works upside down, there's a only a couple of mm difference between the brake hanger and the mid point of the wheelbase which is where I put mine. I can't think that this would make a great deal of difference as the rear axle is driven and the amount of travel required. Good luck!

    simond likes this.
  7. Pushpull33

    Pushpull33 Western Thunderer

    Thanks Adam for taking the time to check. I couldn't see any other way of doing the pivot point so sounds like a plan. I have just straighten up the Hornblock guides as well.
    AJC likes this.
  8. Pushpull33

    Pushpull33 Western Thunderer

    The continuing sga of the Terrier.
    The chassis has been built and runs well, happy with this as its my first one that is compensated. Presently working on the cab detail as without the Ks motor we have a whacking great big hole. Looking at old photos it would seem that as originally built the backhead was a pretty basic affair.


    I know the front of the body is sitting high, i haven't screwed here down yet.
    I have started thinking the cab interior, looks like i will have to make my first Backhead.

    The start of the cab floor.

    JohnFla, Rob Pulham, jonte and 2 others like this.
  9. AJC

    AJC Western Thunderer

    Good work! It's a bit quieter than mine which seems to be a grinder for some reason, though it hasn't had much running. As regards the cab, once a crew is in, there is not very much at all to see so the shape of the backhead, the lever reverser that partically blocks the driver's access to the cab and the regulator handle is probably enough. The vacuum brake valve is very visible though and it's probably worth forking out for the rather nice casting that Branchlines do (about £3-£4 if I remember rightly).

  10. Peter Cross

    Peter Cross Western Thunderer

    Very nice.
    I built 735 in 7mm. May have to go there again, as I would like one. I did mine with the Drummond boiler complete with safety valves in the dome and stove pipe chimney. But in SR olive, oh and 3 cable pull push gear.
  11. Overseer

    Overseer Western Thunderer

    You probably have cab detail photos but these taken of Fenchurch last September might be useful. I think the boiler is still an A1X boiler even though the smokebox has been changed back to an A1 type. Also all the gauges have been removed for safe keeping while it is awaiting overhaul, the outlines are visible on the paint.
  12. Pushpull33

    Pushpull33 Western Thunderer

    I have 735 in 0 Gauge.

    Thanks for the Photographs, that is really helpful. I did find some but not as good as those.

    Adam, i have been in touch with Branchlines about the brake valve.
    AJC likes this.
  13. Threadmark: Lswr terrier

    Pushpull33 Western Thunderer

    I must thank all you guys for the valuable help given to me while building the Terrier.
    The only thing left to make is the steps below the cab, i have a few white metal casting in the bits box, unfortunately they are to thick and clash with the brake gear. I will probably use these as a pattern and make up some brass ones, after all we only need Two.
    I have completed a representation of the cab interior including making up a backhead. I am hoping for the brake valve from Branchlines.
    IMG_0761.JPG IMG_0762.JPG
    I am also on the search for a nice Edwardian crew
    One other thing that needed attention was the glazing. I cut a piece of brass tube the right size and used this to punch out 4 round windows, glued in with 'Glue and Glaze' from Deluxe materials.
    One happy Terrier.
    Well worth the effort to bring an old loco up to date.
  14. Pushpull33

    Pushpull33 Western Thunderer

    Hi Adam.
    Had a reply back from Branchlines and cant see the brake valve listed, would you know the part number? Many thanks Colin.
  15. AJC

    AJC Western Thunderer

    Now you're asking - I'll check when I get home.