Martin Finney 7mm A3

Discussion in 'Area 51' started by P A D, 19 January 2018.

  1. P A D

    P A D Western Thunderer

    Before going further with the chassis, I thought it would be good to get the coupling rods on. Here they are after laminating and fettling.

    And on the wheels.

    I'm pleased but not surprised to say, that the wheels turned without the slightest hint of a bind. So with that confirmed I removed the wheels and completed the soldering of the spacers. I then refitted the front and rear wheels, spaced them centrally with cut up strips of card, and soldered the bearings slightly proud of the frames. There is now minimal side play front and rear and no need for any axle washers.
    On the right hand frame there are two fold down brackets. The rear most one can be folded without problem, but as can be seen in the photos, the front one will foul the wheel if folded at 90 degrees. I need to check the instruction further on to suss out why that is.

    As a parting shot I cut out and fettled up the frame for the cartazzi truck.

    I slotted in the truck to check the fit. It will need a little bit of fettling to get it sliding freely, but not much. Again the fit of the parts is excellent.

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  2. mickoo

    mickoo Western Thunderer

    You need to cut a small fillet out of the front lubricator bracket to clear the leading wheel flange.

    Remove the front wheel, fold the flange 90°, strengthen the inside of the bend with a fillet of solder and then use a slitting disc in a dremel and ease a slot in the bracket (allow for side play) to clear the leading wheel flange. Pop the wheel back in, job done :thumbs:
  3. P A D

    P A D Western Thunderer

    Thanks Mick.
    I wondered if was an error on the drawing, but didn't check further in the instructions before I packed up.

    As you say it's easy to remedy.

    In the end I decided to punch out the rivets on the frames, but have not bothered with opening the rear hole.

    I found this photo on the web of FS being re wheeled. The frames bear out your pre 1933 drawing. Rear most oval hole blanked off with a smaller round hole in front of it.


  4. P A D

    P A D Western Thunderer

    Here's the chassis on test on a slight incline.

    It runs smoothly under its own weight,
    so I removed the wheels to add some details. The dummy etched hornblocks and some half etched overlays on the outside of the frames have been added. The centre bearing holes have been elongated so if it doesn't run smoothly when I put the wheels back on, I'll know I've cocked it up.

    I've also modified the lubricator bracket to clear the front wheel as suggested by Mick. It is actually mentioned in the instructions but i didn't spot it first time round.

    The cartazzi slider now moves smoothly in the rear frame. It just needed a little tweek to the folded bearing surfaces in the frame.
    Last edited: 14 February 2018
  5. P A D

    P A D Western Thunderer

    So here are the bearings after adding a "dimple" with an 0.8mm drill, and the wire springs made from 0.7mm ns wire. The longer bends are to ensure the locating spigots at the bearing ends are vertical when fixed to the inside of the frames.

    Here are the springs soldered in place.

    And with the bearings added.

    And with the wheels back on. I've tested the running again on the inclined track and it runs smoothly.


    Next the rear inner frame for the cartazzi truck has been added. 20180216_183909.jpg

    And with the truck in place.
    The truck is held in place by the 0.8mm ns wire which also offers some degree of side control.


    The bogie wheel splash guards, middle sand box filler pipes and front sandbox castings have also been fitted.


    Here are the outer rear frames and drag beam under preparation.

    The text part of the instructions is on A4 paper folded into a small booklet, so easy to handle. The assembly and fret diagrams are on A3 paper so less manageable on the workbench. To keep them out of the way but handy to view, I tape them to the wall as in this shot.

  6. P A D

    P A D Western Thunderer

    I have now added the splayed out framing to the rear of the chassis. I managed to bend and fit the the left hand side first time, but the right hand one needed two or three corrections to get it to fit correctly. The two sides are identical so that was down to me not the part. Once the sides were on, the remaining spacer/drag box was fitted.

    20180220_194928.jpg 20180220_194850.jpg

    And with the axle box keeps fitted.

    And a view from the rear. The wire spring that holds the cartazzi slider in place and gives some side control can be seen.


    And a broadside view.

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  7. P A D

    P A D Western Thunderer

    I switched back to the tender as I wanted to see if I could make the buffers self contained as outlined by Mickoo on one of his threads. I felt the biggest challenge would be to drill vertically through the buffer head accurately. This proved to be the case as although I have a vertical drill stand for the mini drill, the machine vice I have would hold the buffer dead vertical. So I went to plan B which involved a compromise by moving the buffer inwards slightly as suggested in the instructions. Fortunately I had a spare pair of buffers so was able to press on.

    First the buffer beam holes were elongated with a round file and the buffer modified as below.

    Next the spigot on the buffer housing was cut off and filed flush, and the retaining nut had a flat filed on to it.

    The nut can be held with a finger whilst the buffer head is screwed in. The flat on the nut then slides on the inside of the tender frame when the head is compressed . Here they are after fitting.


    Attached Files:

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  8. P A D

    P A D Western Thunderer

    I didn't have much time today so I just finished off the tender rear bar the coupling. The coupling actually comes as a three part etching with an etched coupling hook! Needless to say I'll be getting a cast pair from Laurie Griffin.

    The steam heating and brake pipe are provided as coil springs, but I don't like them so I made my own from suitable brass tube.


    First the coil effect is made by adding a thread using an 8BA die. Then I anneal the tube to aid bending. In this case the bore of the tube was too small to fit on the spigot on the brake swan neck and steam heating valve, so had to be drilled out to widen the diameter.

    The brake pipe was soldered to the top spigot after the bottom one had been cut off. I then bent in at the bottom and soldered it to the lower fixing. The steam heating pipe had to be drilled at both ends as there is casting for the joint at the bottom which has a loop for the storage chain. The chain was made from twisted copper wire.

  9. P A D

    P A D Western Thunderer

    Moving back to the loco frames I thought I'd complete the detailing on the cartazzi frames. Here are the parts after preparing. 14 etched parts, 2 cast NS and 2 WM castings, so it was quite a while before I needed to fire up the iron.

    I added the steps and the tiny etched rivet strips first, cleaned up then added the axlebox. This latter item has a mounting spigot on the rear which locates in a hole in the frame, so I was able to solder it in place with 145 from the rear. This makes cleaning up easier as you can give it some stick with the scraper without risking any damage to the casting. The spigot needs to be filed flush to avoid fouling the trailing wheel. 20180223_190414.jpg

    Afterwards the springs/hangers were added. These are only soldered at the shackles at the bottom of the hangers. There is a central spigot that locates in the top of the axlebox and I will run some super glue in later. Finally the "U" shaped safety brackets for the springs were added.

    Here's a view from the underside.

    To complete this area, the front lower firebox was added, along with the boiler drain/wash out tap casting. The corner wash out plugs are 1mm square rod.


    Here's the tap and wash out plugs on the right hand side. On the left there are only the two wash out plugs.

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  10. Tim Watson

    Tim Watson Western Thunderer

    Lovely work. Brings back happy memories of making the A4 20 years ago.

  11. P A D

    P A D Western Thunderer

    Hi Tim,
    Many thanks.

    This kit is an absolute joy to build. When I first saw the etchings, I was a bit concerned that some of the brass ones were a little on the thin side.

    However once soldered, the structures are very robust, although the running plate edge on the tender is a bit vulerable. I assume that the thinner metal makes for less cusp and is therefore easier to remove during preparation.

    Over the years the kits I have built have been mostly from the mid to lower end suppliers, where to a greater or lesser extent, you have to work harder (lots of fettling, replacing parts, making parts) which I don't mind as I enjoy building and I'm just doing it for myself. With this kit, you just have to build it. Follow the instructions, prepare the parts, minimum solder and clean up as you go and a good result is virtually guaranteed. OK , I made the steam and brake pipes but I just don't like flexible tubes or springs for these parts.

    I will definitely be investing in further Finney kits from F7.

  12. P A D

    P A D Western Thunderer

    First up was a correction to the left hand trailing axlebox spring. I noted in one of the photos that it was not seated correctly in the box.

    Then on with the driving wheel springs which are 3 part etched laminates. I've seen some builds where these have been replaced with cast items from Ragstone or Hobbyhorse, as they are a bit lacking as they come. However, I decided with a little modification they would be OK. Here's one prepared ready to fit, with the three laminates next to it.

    As can be seen, the retaining nuts on the shackles are represented on the etchings which is the main deficit in the parts. After laminating, I filed off the "nuts" when cleaning up. Here are the first 3 fitted to the left hand side.

    After fitting all 6, I then drilled a shallow hole into the base of each shackle , and soldered in a short length of 14 BA bolt and a nut. Here they are after cleaning up.

    I think they are more than acceptable tucked away behind the wheels. I scored a line just above the shackle on each hanger to represent the joint.



    Last edited: 27 February 2018
  13. P A D

    P A D Western Thunderer

    Next the break rigging.

    The hangers, shoes, cross beams and pull rods are made up from half etch lamination so are a bit one dimensional. I thought about replacing these with Ragstone cast items, but decided to save the cash and see what I could make of the etchings.

    The connecting pins for the brake blocks and pull rods are represented by punch out rivets. I thought that drilling these out and replacing with brass rod would go a long way to improving the appearance.

    Here are the hangers and shoes ready for fitting. The small etchings are the hangers brackets.

    The cross beams and pull rods require 18 holes to be drilled, so are more time consuming. As the pull rods are only half etched they are very thin, so I decided to beef them up by laminating lengths of brass strip to the upper edges. Here they are after laminating the cross beams. The top left pull rod already has a length of brass strip soldered in place on the side touching the mat.

    Here's a view from the other side with the added strip now bottom left. Before laminating the pull rods, I drilled out the rivets on this side. Afterwards I drilled all the way through to fit the 0.7mm rod for the connecting pins. 20180228_145027.jpg

    The whole unit was placed on a length of wood, and the pins added one at a time after drilling into the wood through each hole.

    After soldering, the pins were snipped to the same length using a simple "gauge" bottom right in this photo. It's just a suitable thickness of waste etch with a hole drilled near the end to fit over the rod. Then push down tight and snip with side cutters.

    Here they are all snipped to length but not yet cleaned up.

    After cleaning up the unit was carefully prised out of the wood, snipped on the other side and cleaned up.

    I think it's a big improvement and will pass muster when viewed from normal viewing angles.

    And all in place on the chassis.


    The excess metal on the hanger rods and crossbeam pins has not been trimmed yet.

  14. P A D

    P A D Western Thunderer

    To complete the brake rigging I made some L shaped brackets to fit over the pivot rods on the front and middle brakes.

    And added the front pull rods, cranks and brake cylinders. Not sure if the cylinders will foul the bogie wheels, but will find that out later.

    I've checked and found that I can get the wheels in and out past the brakes, even set relatively close to the wheels.

    When I came to the cast sand pipes for the middle drivers, I found that they needed modifying to get them to fit correctly. 20180302_113209.jpg
    The part at the top needs cutting off to allow the sand pipe to fit in the correct position next to the tyre above the rail.
    They are both soldered in place now as are the front sand pipes from 0.8 mm NS wire, but I overlooked to take a picture.

    As the chassis is well advanced, I decided to move on to the running for a change.

    Here are the valances prepared for folding on the integral jig.

    And after folding.

    The rear of the valance is folded inwards before folding up the drag beam. It needs to be curved so I sanded a suitable piece of wood to the radius on the drawing to assist making the bend.

    Here it is after adding the running plate.

    And the state of play so far.

    Kettering tomorrow with my shopping list. Strangely there are no castings for the bogie springs or injectors so I hope to get some from Ragstone. I'll be picking up a bogie side control unit from Gladiator also.
  15. P A D

    P A D Western Thunderer

    Since the tender was originally for an A4, I thought I'd make a comparison with the corridor tender from Golden Fleece. The bits of card slotted behind the lamp irons are just to protect them from damage during handling.

    Yes I know, the corridor tender should have a buckeye coupling.

    I couldn't resist a shot with the A4. Come on, what's the point of building trains if you don't play with them?
    And back to the build. The curved plate at the front and the frame extensions were added

    And the rubbing plate to the drag beam.

    And the splashers.
    Surprisingly, the middle splasher tops needed quite a bit of fettling to get them to fit. I double checked and the splasher sides are located correctly so I would suggest the tops are too long. On one side I filed them either end to get it to sit down, and on the other I cut it at one end at the half etch/full etch join, and tucked the half etch under the full etch.

    Next the valve cover boxes. Here are the parts ready for soldering.

    And after fitting with the near side cleaned up.

    Both sides cleaned and the hinges for the inspection plates at the front added The half etch grooves representing the edge of the plates are about 2mm too short and need extending to the running plate edge. The hinges further back have had some 0.45mn wire solder on to represent the hinge bolts, and the perimeter of the plate has been scribes.


    This shows the hinges for the smaller inspection cover before I added the hinge bolt and popped the rivets. I should have done the rivets before I added the top plate to the valve boxes but Captain Cockup paid me a visit. Luckily I was able to do it insitue .

    From there I moved back to the chassis as the bogie side contrl unit arrived in the post this morning from Gladiator. Here is the unit assembled and tacked in the bogie frames.

    The spring castings are from Ragstone. They are sold as being LNER but are in fact SR variant but will pass muster tucked away under the cylinder. Hobbyhorse used to do LNER ones.

    Last edited: 8 March 2018
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  16. Steph Dale

    Steph Dale Western Thunderer

    There's very little difference between the SR and LNER bogie bearings, between them Marsh and Bulleid saw to that - I think they must have left Donny with a handcart of drawings each... :)

    Worth noting that the bogie cracks of the LNER pacifics stopped the Brighton atlantics (identical bogie) as well as the LNER locos. It also led to increased inspections of the Schools, Lord Nelsons and Bulleid pacifics' bogies as they were similar in design.

  17. P A D

    P A D Western Thunderer

    It seems I ran out of uploads so just to finish off. Here's the bogie placed under the frames. It's starting to look like an A3 at last. 20180307_203614.jpg
    I have also added the sand pipe castings for the middle wheels, and the front ones from 0.8mm NS rod. Some adjustment to the front one has still to be made.

    Here are the parts I bought at Kettering from Ragstone and CPL.

    And finally this nice little toy that my wife bought me for my birthday.

    I've not done much with it so far but what I have done has really impressed me. Wonderful tool.
  18. P A D

    P A D Western Thunderer

    Hi Steph,
    Yes, I am aware of the similarity but interesting to find out why. I knew when I bought them they were not 100% but as I said, tucked away under the frames they will pass muster. These are the Hobbyhorse LNER ones (Reynolds range).
    LNER Bogie springs.JPG

    And Ragstone's. The main difference is the crossbeam at the top but I can live with it. 20180308_092645.jpg
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  19. mickoo

    mickoo Western Thunderer

    Peter, the Ragstones ones are actually more accurate, I initially bought the hobby horse ones for my DA A3 and was so disappointed with the shape I threw them straight in the bin. Of the four you have there one of them is wrong, I don't recognise where it comes from but you need the ones with the freestanding equalizing beams, like the other three you already have :thumbs:

    The only large difference between the SR Bulleid light Pacific is the small web between backing plate and spring top plate, that on the LNER being smaller and slightly curved. I'll post some photos when I get home if you think they'll help.

  20. Steph Dale

    Steph Dale Western Thunderer

    It's just upside-down; but don't worry, I don't think anyone noticed! ;)

    John K likes this.