7mm Mickoo's Commercial Workbench

Dave Bowden

Western Thunderer
I thought this was a Warren Shepard kit not a Jim Harris!! I think I would have given in a long time ago by now.

I congratulate up on your perseverance, and it’s also nicely put together.:)

Dave
 

mickoo

Western Thunderer
Peter,

There are no internal stays, authentic ones, provided in the kit and yes I do like accurate detail inside (when I'm the author and in control of the product) but this is a build out of the box as stated in paragraph one. The only stay left to go in the middle is the big motor mount, but being as I've not decided how to mount the motor yet for clearances then it's not gone in.

However the build out of the box would of been so poor that it would not be fair to the client to make it as such, in which case it's a case of adding what is reasonably practicable without recourse to a complete rebuild.....of which some parts have already been done.

Regarding frame rivets, you're right there are none, no details are given or guides as to where to put them, the GA is okay but you've no idea if they're on parts internal or visible on the outside, photos tend to be a bit dim and poorly defined, so like you I opted to leave them off rather than guess incorrectly.

Dave, thank you.

This is one of his 'aid to scratch building kits' and one of the lesser developed ones at that, it is sold as such and only on the purchasers agreement will Warren sell one, so yes there is a lot that needs adjusting, self making. More than I imagined, I don't mind making the odd part here and there, what can become weary is remaking parts already supplied.

Steps I'll come back to, don't worry Peter, getting them off is the easy part, I'll just threaten them very loudly in Viking and they'll leap right off the model! ;)

Anyway, another elephant in the room are the cab sides.

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You start with the one on the left and after much swearing, wielding of tools, implements, axes, large cutting devices, sweat and toil...oh and did I say swearing....you end up with what's on the right.

Why oh why the blank number plate is half etched onto the cab side is beyond me, possibly to allow you to add a decal number; also not sure why the lower rivets look like that, they're fine 1:1, possibly the lamp angle or polishing.

If I ever make a Warren Shepard kit again I won't mess around next time, I'll just etch a whole new cab and be done, far faster and taking man hours into account, significantly cheaper.

Next up the backhead.

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No backhead or cab fittings are supplied, well I think seats and reverser stand with reverser fitting are, but there's nowt else.

Fortunately I've managed to acquire a ready built replacement, not sure about the big countersunk screw hole in the middle, I'll probably fill that and find another way of fixing it in. I'll have to add some internal splashers here as well to fill the big holes.

Externally.

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I'd set myself the target of the cab front, one side and the splasher to complete this evening, all was going well until I came to the splasher, what you see is what you get, no tabs, no alignment aids and no top. I'll add an angle strip along the base of the footplate to hold it nice and straight along there, then solder it in and fabricate a new top. Once the splashers are in then the footplate will be a little stronger in the middle.

Side view.

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Given the issue with the steps I would not have slept easily until I knew the cab side was the right size and shape, it is and the hand rail locations line up as does the roof/side joint, occasionally things do go right ;):thumbs:

Despite my negative comments, they're not intended to be a slight on the kit, more a heads up for anyone else who want's to follow the same path. I think once it's finished and painted, with all the little tweaks here and there, that it's actually going to look quite smart in it's own little simplistic way. It won't have all the bells and whistles of a kit twice/thrice the price or RTR ten times the price, but I think it'll hold it's own in a crowded shed or galloping around the garden.

In a perverse sort of way it's about as far from the W1 as you can get technology wise, and, as such is quite refreshing if you build it in the way it was intended; if you try to build it like a Finney7 or MoK then you're not really going to have a lot of fun.

MD
 

Eastsidepilot

Western Thunderer
....You start with the one on the left and after much swearing, wielding of tools, implements, axes, large cutting devices, sweat and toil...oh and did I say swearing....you end up with what's on the right..........

MD

you left out " large 'ammer and bin " :D

Col.
 

mickoo

Western Thunderer
Oddly the 'ammer wasn't one of the major implements of choice but the bin was certainly joint top for the destination :D.

The second side went much better, rather than an hour if scraping and filling I cobbled the prison drill into a make shift mill and skimmed the number plate off, a quick skim with a file and all was good :thumbs:
 
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SimonT

Western Thunderer
The window and the cab cut out don't look quite right. I'm doing a bit of looking at this at the moment.
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Sorreee!
Simon
 

mickoo

Western Thunderer
The model is correct, well given the little 0.5 mm discrepancy in height.

But if you're going to loose sleep over that then you'd best re-evaluate the rest of the kit first ;)
 

mickoo

Western Thunderer
It's a good job I wrote the above before this evenings dabblings :eek:

Forget the window, forget the steps or even the narrow tender innards, this beats them all :D

I'm no GWR expert, but I can usually spot a sewer rodent pretty quickly and despite it not being fully formed, it became rapidly apparent all is not as it should be.

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It has been formed in basic form to the front and rear formers, I say basic as it needs some tuning of the bends a little here and there; however, it is quite clear than no matter how much tweaking you do it's still going to look like a dogs dinner.....after it has been through the dog!

You could probably tilt it forward and reduce the crown height, then trim the front and rear faces vertical. But then the lower washout plugs would angle down, basically it's scrap man fodder.

Thoughts moved to the actual formers and some quick tests were done.

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The rear former does not match the flange plate on the cab front, agreed it's sat a little high but even at the right height it's still wrong. If we form the firebox around that then once fitted to the cab will look ugly and mismatched with the flange plate. Once again scrap man fodder.

Comparing with the pressed front former.

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Pretty much the same size width and height, shapes are not too far out and given the distance between them and once fitted to the model, you'd probably not notice the difference. But, the shoulders and waist should be wider and the crown higher, in short it's too small, more scrap man fodder.

To confirm this the rear boiler former was placed on top.

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The boiler ring is actually the right size.

So, in short, the whole firebox is junk and just to make sure I didn't do anything silly like try and tweak the wrapper I did this.

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Yes Col, big 'ammers were used to abuse the miscreant item :D, it felt good :cool:

So firebox less I now have two choices, well possibly three.

First, scratch build a whole new firebox from brass, formers, wrappers etc, not overly hard, but time consuming.
Second, work one up in 3D and get it printed, very fast time wise, an hour maybe two to draw up, down sides are long delivery time (weeks) and a different material that may cause issues later on when fixing the boiler and cab together.
Third, try and obtain a resin one from JLTRT or who ever they're called now.

Both two and three incur a cost and a discussion with the client, the third is a long shot and probably not a realistically viable option truth be told.

Time for a ponder.
 

adrian

Flying Squad
First, scratch build a whole new firebox from brass, formers, wrappers etc, not overly hard, but time consuming.
Scratch-build from nickel-silver please and if you have the dimensions then probably no more than a couple of hours of work. Although probably need a little tweaking as this is a narrow gauge loco. The right material for soldering to the boiler and adding other detail. :)
 

mickoo

Western Thunderer
...... probably no more than a couple of hours of work.
You give my skill base too much credit ;)

I'd say to cut it all out, trim and make the core, then skin and clean up and round the shoulders off, plus add all the details, it'll take a good six hours, maybe more.

Tweaking won't be an issue as the County has massive full length plate splashers, which will easily hide the lower part which usually has to be tapered to suit narrow gauge. Until I get the firebox done I can't really cut and add the splasher tops as they need to butt up to the side of the firebox.
 

adrian

Flying Squad
I'd say to cut it all out, trim and make the core, then skin and clean up and round the shoulders off,
Send us a drawing and a couple of photos and I'll make one for you, even fit a few washout plugs as well but you may want to do that yourself as well as the rest of the detailing.
Tweaking won't be an issue as the County has massive full length plate splashers, which will easily hide the lower part which usually has to be tapered to suit narrow gauge.
That would be a good tweak - as a Scale7 modeller I've seen too many models spoilt by the firebox sitting on top of the splashers. A classic one was a few years ago a front cover of the gazette showing just that situation with a ROD 2-8-0. :rant:
 

mickoo

Western Thunderer
How can I turn the other cheek to a gauntlet thrown challenge like that :p

I know option one is the true path, not sure why I'm resisting it so much ;)

Still it'll all look better (rosier) in the morning :cool:
 

SimonT

Western Thunderer
To do it in metal, don't forget the Guy Williams method of building the firebox front (thick) and back and some structure to keep them in the correct place. Then wrap thin card around and trace on the edge of the firebox to give you the wrapper shape. Cut it out slightly over size, copy it onto choice of material and then cut out and solder in place.
I would give you a copy of the appropriate pages but it's in a box, etc...
Simon
 

Steph Dale

Western Thunderer
To do it in metal, don't forget the Guy Williams method of building the firebox front (thick) and back and some structure to keep them in the correct place. Then wrap thin card around and trace on the edge of the firebox to give you the wrapper shape. Cut it out slightly over size, copy it onto choice of material and then cut out and solder in place.

Yeah, this one. Ironically I've the parts and intent to do such a 'show and tell', just no flippin' time at the moment!

Steph
 

mickoo

Western Thunderer
So, after many hours work....more than two ;) we arrive here, the genesis of the firebox core.

I'm not overly concerned at the time impact right now, so long as it's all square and the right shape, fireboxes are not the easiest of shapes to form and do have a big impact on the overall look of the engine; so an extra few hours now, saves time ten fold later.

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I've still got to add a double plate to the front on the inside to enable the full radius of the shoulders to be formed. I didn't have any thick plate and really didn't fancy cutting either six 0.55 plates or sweating six 0.55 and cutting it out in one lump. You see, fret saws and I are not on overly good terms with each other, not where straight lines are involved ;).....fortunately, there are few straight lines on the firebox front and rear :cool:

Instead I grabbed some 2 mm bar, annealed it....sort of... and bent to shape and soldered inside, two thick bore tubes were turned up and soldered in place, they will remain once the firebox is complete; the base will be removed once the skin is fitted. I will add two longitudinal supports to the base on each side which will also remain once the skin is on.

Once all that is done then I will open up the front plate to allow access to the inside of the boiler for DCC or speakers.

Temporarily in place.

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The rear plate needs a little tweak here and there to match the half etch flange on the cab front and it's not quite in the right location with a slight kick and tilt to one side, but, it's a lot close than the previous item.

Head on profile check.

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Despite being for narrow gauge the profile above the wheels is uniform and pretty equal both sides.

All important side view.

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All square and vertical, more importantly we now have the correct fall from the crown to the cab.
 

Nick Dunhill

Western Thunderer
Welcome to my world, except I don't post the bin failures. He he he. I think Eddie the Eagle would have found a use for the destroyed firebox.
 
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