7mm Mickoo's Workbench - Connoisseur 4F, JM LMS Garratt - Martin Finney 47xx - MoK Ivatt 4MT

Discussion in 'Area 51' started by mickoo, 8 September 2018.

  1. mickoo

    mickoo Western Thunderer

    As a follow up, the thin electrical tape didn't pass muster, being the stretchy sort it was too easy to pull it when laying it over the roof, the end result 24hrs later were small gaps twixt tape and gutter as it pulled back to it's original length.

    I opted for scotch clear sellotape cut into 1.5 mm lengths, it went on well, has stayed on and remains the right length, mind it was a bit of a faff getting it under the roof conduits.

    The tell tales and door handles were all fitted and it's now ready for paint, I'll grab the white sheet tomorrow for a couple of shots before it goes off.

    The A2 received it's lining band and has been reassembled ready for delivery in a week or so, all being well with Covid........

    Time to open another box.....
    Pencarrow likes this.
  2. daifly

    daifly Western Thunderer

    Hi Mick
    Scotch tape is not a long-term solution. The adhesive will dry out, become brittle and part company with the carrier film. If it’s painted over, that may slow the deterioration.
    Dave (who spent 9 months with 3M putting the sticky on Scotch tape in the 60s)
    adrian and Deano747 like this.
  3. mickoo

    mickoo Western Thunderer

    In further news, another fast mover across the bench, then it'll be back to the Garratt and then hopefully back to some more of the Ivatt 4F.

    Next up is a Connoisseur 4F, or 'clog' as my father called them when spotting around Crewe and Manchester in the late 50's, it's nice to get back to a simpler engine, Midland helps too, and a simpler kit.

    I've never built a Connoisseur kit before and they generally receive favourable comments, I can see why now, it's 80% nickel silver and that's a nice bonus.

    So far it all seems to fit very well, an even bigger bonus, the instructions are clear; though I have to admit I haven't used them that much as I'm reasonably well versed in the real thing, most parts so far are pretty intuitive.

    There's a wealth of castings, all white metal and on the whole I don't actually get on with white metal very well. I managed to destroy, no that's too harsh, damage to be noticeable, two axle boxes and springs through my inept soldering, fortunately by some quirk there were ten packed in the kit. In the end I managed six well enough to pass muster.

    The steam and vac pipes are also white metal and I can see the vac pipe getting snapped off, so I'll replace that with a brass one in due course. The buffers are also solid white metal castings and these will be replaced with brass sprung units.

    Despite my doubts about white metal, I will say one thing, so far every single part has been crisp, correctly shaped, bare minimum of flash and quite frankly 100% fit for purpose.

    Okay, to the pictures, the white metal is just placed on for the photos, not the axle boxes, they're soldered on, it scrubs up pretty well and I just need to add some of the smaller details to finish.


    The model is an early version on the S&D, that means no coal rails.....yeeyyy, but I do have to fit a tablet catcher which isn't a problem.

    What is a problem though, one I just twigged today, is that it's probably the wrong tender; a couple of photos show them to be Midland 3500G tender with flared tops and coal rails, not the later Fowler LMS slab sided version seen here.

    There's two options, see if you can even get the early Midland 3500 type or, find a photo of one with a LMS 3500 tender.
  4. mickoo

    mickoo Western Thunderer

    Oh bollox

    Will it last fifteen years if painted, it'll be celly paint which might bond well to it, might also melt it......
  5. Overseer

    Overseer Western Thunderer

    Not sure which tape you used but I have a roll of 3M Magic Tape which is over 15 years old and still works exactly as it did when new. I know it has stayed in place when painted over, although not sure about cellulose paint. So you may be OK.
    AJC and mickoo like this.
  6. warren haywood

    warren haywood Western Thunderer

    Celly should seal it in, airtight and very hard, can’t see the tape coming away.
    mickoo likes this.
  7. michl080

    michl080 Western Thunderer


    when I built my S&D 7F, I learned that the S&D didn't have water scoops attached on their tenders. They had only the brake standard, but no water scoop standard. Big question is: right or left :)

    mickoo likes this.
  8. Focalplane

    Focalplane Western Thunderer

    If only Connoisseur offered more than the Jinty and 4F for LMS and GWR modellers!

    That said, they were my first 7mm kits and were a great introduction. I did replace several white metal castings with brass fittings from Laurie Griffin, in particular the lubricators.

    In fact the Jinty remains my avatar and I cannot bring myself to change it!
  9. eastsidepilot

    eastsidepilot Western Thunderer

    I suppose after 9 months you couldn't stick the job much longer ! :D

    Osgood, daifly, fenman and 2 others like this.
  10. eastsidepilot

    eastsidepilot Western Thunderer

    I was thinking micro strip plastic might work, if it's thin enough.
  11. oldravendale

    oldravendale Western Thunderer

    Hi Mick.

    I agree with your comments about Connoisseur. After all, if the white metal (always of good quality from my experience) is not tough enough then it should be possible to find brass alternative from one of the after market suppliers. Certainly brass is preferable for any of the exposed pipework.

    I don't remember ever seeing a 4F with a flared tender. I may have misinterpreted your comments, but here are some photos to illustrate (with apologies for the poor quality of most!):

    44123. Barry. 18 November 1967

    44123.  Barry.  18 November 1967.  Photo by Brian Dale.  FINAL.jpg

    44381. Cricklewood. Sept 1963.

    44381.  Cricklewood.  Sept 1963.  FINAL.  Photo by Brian Dale.jpg

    44422. Barry. 9 Nov 1968

    44422.  Barry.  9 Nov 1968.  FINAL.  Photo by Brian Dale.jpg

    44422. Barry. 18 Nov 1967

    44422.  Barry.  18 November 1967.  Photo by Brian Dale.  FINAL.jpg

    44422. Leicester. June 1970

    44422.  Leicester MPD.  Slide Jun 70.  FINAL.jpg
    44348. Bushey Troughs. July 1960

    img795 TM 24 Film ID21 44348 on Parcels Bushey Troughs Parcels Traffic.  FINAL. Approved.jpg

    44297. Cricklewood. Sept 1963.

    44297.  Cricklewood.  September 1963.  Photo by Brian Dale.  FINAL.jpg
    44516. Peterborough. July 1960.

    img858 TM 44516 on local train at Peterborough Jul 60.jpg

    All my copyright.


    PS - Car bodylining tape might be preferable for the boiler bands. I've used it and it has great longevity - after all, it may have to go through car washes (but I appreciate not when it's on the loco). The only disadvantage is that it has to be cut in to strips narrow enough for the purpose but that can be achieved by laying it on a piece of clean glass before applying the scalpel.
  12. eastsidepilot

    eastsidepilot Western Thunderer

    Firstly, Jim must of heard about you :p:D

    Secondly, do you have a specific engine number to model, Mick ? if so we might find a photo with the correct tender ?
  13. mickoo

    mickoo Western Thunderer

    It's the modern almost see through variety, well, 95% opacity once smoothed down, I'd like to think modern adhesives and plastics are better suited to longevity.

    I'd concur that if it were exposed then it will probably become brittle and dry out, most sellotapes seem to suffer that, I'm hoping sealing it in will solve that, as Warren notes, it should be fine.

    Brian, I did consider car lining tape but felt it might be a bit thick (depth), I'll get a reel later but seem to recall from my ladish days of pin striping that it was also quite flexible/stretchable.

    I cut the sellotape the very same way, clean glass, steel rule, sharp knife, works a treat :thumbs:
    Last edited: 26 September 2020
  14. mickoo

    mickoo Western Thunderer

    The hand brake stand is on the right, the water scoop on the left when looking from the cab toward the rear of the tender. The Johnson 'pre grouping' tenders fitted to the 4F were the same.
  15. mickoo

    mickoo Western Thunderer

    It was nice of him to pack this one specifically for my clumsiness :))

    #57-61 then 4457-61 then 44457-61, a little mote digging today finds they still had the earlier Johnson style tenders as late as 1929, maybe even later.

    The date set for the model is 1923 :headbang:
    Last edited: 26 September 2020
  16. mickoo

    mickoo Western Thunderer

    Brain, back in your day there were on 18 (on records) left so the chances of you seeing one is rare, however, back in the 20's there were 197 of them.
  17. mickoo

    mickoo Western Thunderer

    Tried that, I also tried 5 thou brass strips but I couldn't get them to stick to the aluminium roof, tried superglue and it stuck to the plastic/brass fine but just peeled right off the roof, then I tried two pack epoxy but it's so thick (relative) it just did not look good enough.

    I suspect that expensive black loctite (the number of which I've forgotten) would probably work but my bottle is long dried out and gone.
  18. eastsidepilot

    eastsidepilot Western Thunderer

    Andy Beaton ( Ragstone) does a kit Tender kits

  19. oldravendale

    oldravendale Western Thunderer

    I'm not much help then, am I? I should've asked what date you were modelling.

    You are too kind.... in fact when I started taking an interest in railways most if not all of the 197 existed.:)

  20. mickoo

    mickoo Western Thunderer

    Brilliant, I was heading there shortly but the link is appreciated, it's the TK14e I need, time for the client to make some decisions.

    I think the ready made kit will be a better option than me drafting a new tank and getting it etched.
    cmax and eastsidepilot like this.