7mm Mickoo's Workbench - Connoisseur 4F, JM LMS Garratt - Martin Finney 47xx - MoK Ivatt 4MT

Discussion in 'Area 51' started by mickoo, 8 September 2018.

  1. Lancastrian

    Lancastrian Western Thunderer


    You'll need the Midland Railway 3500 gallon tender.

    Coal rails
    Extended side plates
    No tank vents
    Two "dustbin lid" tank fillers
    Rectangular pick-up delivery box, although no scoop fitted of course
    Coping over-lapping tender side plates
    No beading
    Snap head rivets

    Don't forget the locomotive will be RHD.

    Last edited: 26 September 2020
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  2. mickoo

    mickoo Western Thunderer

    Little bit of an update, client went with the stock kit tender :thumbs:

    I just need to find a 4F that worked into Wales for a number, preferably LMS, I've a couple noted at Swansea Victoria Paxton Road shed as a back up in the late 30's, ideally I need one in the mid 40's to suit the tender as the vents were moved around then, I don't really want to pull them off and have to fill the spigot holes.

    Having finished the tender I've made a basic start on the engine. The backhead is one of those whitemetal all inclusive package holidays to the Med' affairs, they have their uses and place, just not here ;) A new 3D print with brass fittings shall be required, I shall also be adding a 3D cylinder block and try to fill in all the gaps around the ashpan, the frames are.....how shall we say.....barren but functional :thumbs:





    Last edited: 10 October 2020
  3. Focalplane

    Focalplane Western Thunderer

    I like “barren but functional”! At least it means it is easy to add to.

    Will the 3D backhead be available commercially?
    Rob Pulham likes this.
  4. mickoo

    mickoo Western Thunderer

    We'll see next week, how easy it is, to add to :D

    Define commercially, if it's through a shop front or vendor then no, however, if you have a 4F and require one, I am sure that in exchange for some otters noses (shekels) and badgers spleens (dinars) one will find it's self in the post to any address provided ;)
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  5. eastsidepilot

    eastsidepilot Western Thunderer

  6. mickoo

    mickoo Western Thunderer

    Cheers, sorry mate, that should of read 'mid' forties as I need an LMS engine, not BR.

    None were allocated to Wales according to the book of words, but that's not to say they were not visitors, I'm sure hundreds did over the years and I'm sure records will be thin.

    I suspect anything from the Birmingham area could of worked down to South Wales and I'm sure Crewe, Chester or Manchester engines would of worked into North Wales.
  7. Rob R

    Rob R Western Thunderer


    Nice shot of S&D No. 59's tender in Ivo Peters' (who else) S&D in the 50's vol 1 (photo 119) - a bit late now I know.

    But it' just as well it's not going to be an S&D "Armstrong"as they were supplied with Armstrong Whitworths own take on the Johnson tender, subtly different enough from the MR version to require a scratchbuild (or custom etch), something to do with a thousand or two snap head rivets scattered all over the place and sundry other differences as noted by Lancastrian a few posts back.

    They seem to have kept their tenders through to the fifties, No. 57 had one in August 1956 but had lost it by October 1957 for instance.

    For a South Wales loco (visiting) could Hereford, Gloucester, Bristol, Worcester or Shrewsbury be likely candidates for a home shed as well?

    Just been to the Ragstone site - all bases covered. Please ignore 2nd paragraph.....
  8. eastsidepilot

    eastsidepilot Western Thunderer

    The BR data base might give some clues to loco allocations for further investigation as there were some 4f's based at Gloucester and Bristol in '48 which could have been there in the early mid 40's ?

  9. Lancastrian

    Lancastrian Western Thunderer

    April 1944

    Alsager - 4348, 4354, 4366, 4370, 4450 - 52, 4497
    Aston - 4058, 4077, 4219, 4302, 4350, 4490, 4517
    Bath - 3911, 4096, 4102, 4402, 4523, 4557 - 61
    Bristol - 3876, 3917, 3929, 3939, 3982, 4033, 4134, 4135, 4169, 4411, 4422, 4424, 4466, 4534 - 36, 4546
    Bushbury - 4027, 4439, 4492
    Crewe South - 4300, 4301, 4385, 4453, 4595
    Gloucester - 3846, 3924, 3932, 3935, 3964, 3978, 3994, 4045, 4167, 4269, 4272, 4553, 4567
    Shrewsbury - 4454
    Walsall - 4068, 4069, 4115, 4339, 4441, 4488, 4506, 4507, 4512

    There was also 37 4F's at Saltley.

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  10. eastsidepilot

    eastsidepilot Western Thunderer

    Wot ! no Dromedary pretzels, (only half a denar ).

    Deano747 and mickoo like this.
  11. mickoo

    mickoo Western Thunderer

    Slowly getting there with the connoisseur 4F, the upper works sans back head are all complete now and time to get on with the chassis.



    The reverser supplied just sits flat on the seat/splasher/box, on the real engine it's angled and sat on a bracket to do just that, a quick scratch built unit was whizzed up and fitted; the real thing is a bit more complex and that vexed me for a while. Eventually I realised that there are so many other things not quite right that the reverser bracket authenticity kind of falls to the 'really doesn't matter' bracket.


    The criteria is to add inside motion, maybe not the best idea given that the kit really isn't designed to have inside motion, a lot of hacking and additional work and I've not even started the wiggly bits yet.

    The kit ash pan is a pair of jogged side frames (seen attached in the first photo below with double sided tape), the plan was to sheet across the base and add damper doors to the front, a little research showed the kit ash pan doesn't match the information (shape, style, detail) I found, so a new 3D one was hacked up. Currently the rear is totally open for the motor and worm but a Mk II will close some of that large opening up.




    The frames are designed with a flat top, not sure why as extensions (correct) above the footplate level fit perfectly fine. In hind sight it would of been easier and better to run off some new etches, butt joints for the rear extensions still show a faint witness mark, so more filling and smoothing required. I also need to add a further set of extensions up front but cannot do that until the 3D cylinder block is finalised and I've worked out how much footplate and smoke box rear need hacking out. The quest for working inside motion came late in the day during the build, can't be helped so workarounds are a fact of life.


    The primary reason for the extensions was to support the throat plate stay which is quite prominent on the real engines, again another 3D print, it's only 0.5 mm thick and came out all right, it's in a low impact zone so doesn't need to have all the strength an etched metal one gives, besides it's faster to draw, make and print. Just to be sure it has been backed with a strip of metal already soldered between the extensions.

    Next step is a 3D printed cylinder block and scratch built motion bracket, once I have those all set up and aligned with the inside cranks can I begin to build up the motion.
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