MMP Catfsh Wagons 6 Pack

richard carr

Western Thunderer
I recently purchased a 6 pack of MMP catfish wagons. By the Musty smell of the packaging I fear that Dave P hasn't sold many of these recently.
Simon Varnam has one of these on his website so if you are going to try I recommend that you take a look, there is a lot of useful information there.


Anyway I have spent the past week working in Chicago and took 1 of them with me. After spending 6 hours removing parts from the etch and cleaning them up, this is what I ended up with.

IMG_0746.JPG

Not that I want to get started on a whinge but the parts are vary firmly attached to the etch and a large part probably about 3-4 hours was spent cutting parts from the etch and then filing off the remains of the tabs, I'm sure you could get away with half the number of tabs that has been used for a lot of the parts and save a several hours from the build of hours. So Dave P is you are reading this please note for your future kits.

You don't really need that many tools to build these, so good files are the main ones, especially a barrette file (the one that has angled in sides and comes to a point so that you get into triangular areas) I have large 4th cut vallorbe one and a couple of smaller needle files. The other key tools are a piece of wood to cut the parts out on and a sharp knife. I have used an 80 watt soldering iron for all the soldering done here.

Now to the good bit I have spent about 4 hours this weekend soldering these bits up, its been a delight, the fit of the parts is near PERFECT, here are the results

IMG_0749.JPG


IMG_0752.JPG

The detail in the hopper is tremendous and every part has fitted so well together, there is no need for any bodging here. There is still quite a lot of work to do on the hopper.

Here is the chassis

IMG_0750.JPG

IMG_0751.JPG

The design thought behind the kit is excellent, you could easily think that soldering the leaf spring supports would be a nightmare to get in the right place, but no, there is a tiny little lug on each one that fits into the one that comes W iron and gets everything lined up perfectly. This just what you want from a well designed kit.

One thing you do need to note that through out the kit lots of parts are handed so sometimes it worth writing the part number on the part itself with a marker pen. you can see a few of these in the photos.

I'm heading back to do some more now, this is one kit I don't want to put down.
 

ZiderHead

Western Thunderer
I was chatting to DJP a while back and mentioned how long it took me to cut and file the parts from the etches (for me longer than folding and soldering em) and he suggested just snipping them off with flush cutters. And of course he was right ... much much quicker and only the odd one needs more than a brief swipe with a file :thumbs:
 

djparkins

Western Thunderer
I recently purchased a 6 pack of MMP catfish wagons. By the Musty smell of the packaging I fear that Dave P hasn't sold many of these recently.
Simon Varnam has one of these on his website so if you are going to try I recommend that you take a look, there is a lot of useful information there.


Anyway I have spent the past week working in Chicago and took 1 of them with me. After spending 6 hours removing parts from the etch and cleaning them up, this is what I ended up with.

View attachment 25374

Not that I want to get started on a whinge but the parts are vary firmly attached to the etch and a large part probably about 3-4 hours was spent cutting parts from the etch and then filing off the remains of the tabs, I'm sure you could get away with half the number of tabs that has been used for a lot of the parts and save a several hours from the build of hours. So Dave P is you are reading this please note for your future kits.

Richard -

I shall be noting nothing. One of the main cause of reject sheets is parts being caught as they go through the etching process. If there are too few tabs, parts get caught and flipped back through 180 degrees or twisted round at an angle. In both cases the fret has to be rejected and replacements provided by the etcher but this means delay.

On a popular kit, such as the Dogfish & Catfish, this can mean we are short of stock as the entire stock of these usually has to be replaced completely every 2-3 months or so and rejects can leave us short on a re-stock.

It is a blancing act as the etcher wants more tags and the customer fewer. I seem to have found the right balance as we only have around a .5 of a sheet reject rate on our average sized etching orders of 250-300 x 24" or 18" by 12" sheets.

I cannot see how it took you four hours to remove those parts. With a good pair of small sharp scissors [how I remove 90% of all parts] you can cut against the edge of the part and the tagged area then needs no cleaning up at all. Where you cannot get scissors to the tag [very few cases only] then a swan morton blade will do the job - and if you cut against the edge of the brass there will, again, be little or no cleaning up to do. It should never really be required to use any kind of file to clean up the tagged areas of the etched parts after seperaton and you can very easily distort the parts doing this. I would never use anything but scissors to remove the etchings from the frets unless I had too. For the hoppers for example, you would cut into the sheet from the edge to get an entrance point for the scissors and then proceed around the part - max. time to get the part out ready for use and with no further cleaning up - say, 45 seconds to a minute.

BTW it is risky removing parts from the fret before you need them and it is best to only remove the parts you need for that stage of the assembly. Also - some of the riveting is best done before you remove parts.

Don't know where the musty smell comes from - dank dark Wales I suppose [a contrast to an air-con hotel] - or maybe its from the border collies!!! We are not so civilised down here! I've been wagon kit sniffing earlier, when I saw your post - but they all smell the same to me. Your kits had only been packed up for six weeks! Still, don't suppose it makes any difference to the kit! We do draw the line at sending out kits the cats have pi**3d on though!

Regards,

DJP
 

richard carr

Western Thunderer
Dave

Thanks for the detailed reply. I will be buying some scissors at lunchtime to give that a try, is there a particular brand you would recommend ?

I didn't appreciate that you had some many problems with rejects, but I do have to say that compared to other kit manufacturers, such as Martin Finney, or DJH you do use more tabs than they do, I also know that Martin has a big pile of reject sheets !

I know what you mean about removing parts before you need them but when I'm away with work I don't have a soldering iron but I do have plenty of time to fill when I'm wide awake at 3am int he morning.


Richard
 

djparkins

Western Thunderer
Dave

Thanks for the detailed reply. I will be buying some scissors at lunchtime to give that a try, is there a particular brand you would recommend ?

I didn't appreciate that you had some many problems with rejects, but I do have to say that compared to other kit manufacturers, such as Martin Finney, or DJH you do use more tabs than they do, I also know that Martin has a big pile of reject sheets !

I know what you mean about removing parts before you need them but when I'm away with work I don't have a soldering iron but I do have plenty of time to fill when I'm wide awake at 3am int he morning.


Richard

Richard -

Straight edged scissors - cutting section can be short but a longer handle area gives you the leverage you need. Short curved scissors are sometimes useful [for curved areas!] but these are usually of course nail scissors and so do not come with other than very short handles - so less leverage. Cheap scissors will last you no time. You need to get something top-notch or you will be forever sharpening them! Essette [I think that is the correct spelling] are quite a good brand but a visit to a real or virtual dressmaking or haberdashery shop would offer you a good choice.

As I said - we don't now have very much of a problem at all with reject sheets but we had more until we increased and beefed up our tags. I have some Finney & DJH kits of my own and I know what you mean - but I also know that with that 'open' style layout of parts [which I have never in 35 years felt happy in using] the fret then becomes very flimsy - and we would certainly be getting problems [and complaints] from our supplier if we did. However, the consistent quality of the sheets they supply in terms of the etching - and of the material itself - more than compensates.

Regards,

DJP
 

Dog Star

Western Thunderer
Straight edged scissors - cutting section can be short but a longer handle area gives you the leverage you need... Cheap scissors will last you no time. You need to get something top-notch or you will be forever sharpening them...
My Good Lady has provide an insight into the world of scissoring... either Fiskar or Tim Holtz brands are the top of the pile for quality and smoothness of cut. Hobbycraft / John Lewis / Ebay are the recommended outlets.

"Tonic Studio" range from Tim Holtz has at least one pair which goes along with David's thoughts... overall length of 6.5" with blade length of 2", padded handles to avoid blisters.

Just take your Bank Manager along with you... and wait for the sharp intake of breath.

regards, Graham
 

Heather Kay

Western Thunderer
One wonders if it's worth beginning a thread dedicated to tools and recommended suppliers.

*steps back out of the room* ;)
 

djparkins

Western Thunderer
My Good Lady has provide an insight into the world of scissoring... either Fiskar or Tim Holtz brands are the top of the pile for quality and smoothness of cut. Hobbycraft / John Lewis / Ebay are the recommended outlets.

"Tonic Studio" range from Tim Holtz has at least one pair which goes along with David's thoughts... overall length of 6.5" with blade length of 2", padded handles to avoid blisters.

Just take your Bank Manager along with you... and wait for the sharp intake of breath.

regards, Graham

http://www.amazon.co.uk/Fiskars-Classic-Embroidery-Micro-tip-Scissor/dp/B0001P08JW/ref=sr_1_3?s=kitchen&ie=UTF8&qid=1381143642&sr=1-3&keywords=fiskars scissor

http://www.artisttradingpost.com/tim-holtz-tonic-studios-scissors-1683-p.asp

Graham,

Both of these look useful - though in the latter [Tim Holtz] case it rather depends on what they mean by a serrated cutting edge. It appears as if it is very fine and is just to aid cutting/sharpness.

Not sure why you think they are expensive though? Good tools cost more money but they do last longer!

Regards,

DJP
 

richard carr

Western Thunderer
The Scissors are ordered, but Graham I don't understand your comment on the price, £10 for a pair of scissors seems perfectly reasonable to me.


Richard
 

Dog Star

Western Thunderer
http://www.artisttradingpost.com/tim-holtz-tonic-studios-scissors-1683-p.asp
... though in the latter [Tim Holtz] case it rather depends on what they mean by a serrated cutting edge. It appears as if it is very fine and is just to aid cutting/sharpness.

Not sure why you think they are expensive though? Good tools cost more money but they do last longer!

The link provided by David is to the scissors which we have here... and the serrations are so fine as to be almost invisible to me. I used the pair to cut a piece of MMP etch this morning and the cut/feel were good, only time will tell as to how long the blades shall remain sharp.

David, I think that the serrations are to minimise the blades sliding away from the intended cutting line.

To all, you are correct in saying that good tools are worth the price, the comment was based upon (a) how many pairs of scissors are owned by my Good Lady and (b) the price of some of the dress-making shears.

regards, Graham
 

richard carr

Western Thunderer
Richard

I went for the Fiskars, amazon is so convenient to buy from and there is no delivery charge other than the once a year prime fee.

I should have them tomorrow so I will report back later in the week.

Richard
 

Ian G

Western Thunderer
Enjoy the build I have managed 7 MMP dogfish so far, with a 6 pack i found it easier building 2 at a time, good kits fun to build.

Ian G
 

mickoo

Western Thunderer
Hmm, I use a £1.99 pair from WHSmith, made by stainless? whomever they may be, used them for years, never had an issue, perhaps I need to trade up?

Never had much success with a Stanley blade and fret saw is just fine and still on my first 6/0 blade (correct installation being the key here).

I agree with the good tools ethos, but more important I feel is good care and correct use, mind using scissors to cut 10 thou brass sheet certainly seems to fly in the face of 'good use' LOL.
 

Simon

Flying Squad
Those scissors look to be a good idea, I generally use my piercing saw to separate parts from the fret, which minimises the post cutting clean up and doesn't seem to take too long (especially when compared to cleaning up the wretched cusps - which are a great promotional tool for scratch building:p)

Simon
 
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