7mm MOK BR Standard 4MT Tank

[farnetti]

Hi Peter,

I am in awe of the speed at which you work and your cleanliness. Your recent posts are most helpful and give me hope that I can make, at least, a decent job of mine.

How do you keep it so clean? It looks like wire brushes are in evidence but what about all the fiddly little spaces.

Tim Watson was an inspiration to me around 35 yrs ago at the MRC Kings Cross and got me seriously into modelling rather playing with trains (albeit 2mm which I not interested in).

I can understand your A4 ambition based on his build in MRJ. Tim has recently joined WT and maybe and may well be of help (sorry Tim).

Ken

 

[P A D]

Hi Ken,
Thanks, for the kind words. I'm glad you find my build helpful.

As to the speed of the build, I've had more time to devote to the build that I would normally expect, but the main thing is that like the Finney A3, I have found this kit so easy to build. When everything fits so precisely, then it's up to the builder to get it wrong.

Off the top of my head, in 7mm, I have built kits by Oakeville, Connesieur, Chowbent, Piercey (pre DJH), DJB, Acorn, Acme, Javelin, Slaters, J &M, Agenoria, Seven Models, Scorpio, JLTRT, Gladiator and DJH. To a greater or lesser extent, I have enjoyed building all of them. They were all good value for money in my opinion. The only kit I did not enjoy, despite a satisfying result, was the College Models Ivatt 4F. Awful etchings coupled with awful all brass castings, that the word fettling, is totally inadequate in terms of what I had to do to them to make them presentable. Don't get me wrong, most of these kits makers are very good, but Martin Finney/Finney 7 and MOK are in a different league.

As far as cleanliness is concerned, there is no rocket science involved. First there is the washing after every stage in water and cheap detergent. Then after drying, the mechanical cleaning using either, glass scratch brush, steel scraper, brass scraper, sharpened screwdriver, emery paper, steel scratch brush, Garriflex blocks and steel wire brush in the mini drill. I find this latter tool the most effective especially with a fresh brush. Proxxon I find are the best but the most expensive. I clean using some or all of the above until I'm satisfied (which I never am), and periodically give the model a chemical clean using a hob bright type product and/or Viakal, followed by copious rinsing. In the end I'm never satisfied and find that I start some sessions with further scraping of residues from a previous session, and before I know it the window of opportunity to advance the build has disappeared under a pile of solder scraping. Yes, a bit annal I know, but there are several on here, Messrs Lambert, Davies and Geary (and others) who I'm sure are the same, so I'm in good company. And of course you need the secret ingredient, elbow grease. Or, the other approach is only to use enough solder to do the job in hand. Sometimes I do just that, but mostly I don't. Soldering on the inside where possible is also useful and this kit has lent itself well to that in many places.

What can I say about Tim Watson's A4 build in the MRJ other than inspirational. If I recall, he was and maybe still is, a 2mm modeller and the Finney A4 was his first foray in 7mm. What a fantastic build. I used it as a reference work along with prototype photos for my Acme A4 and found it very helpful.

Tim,
If you read this, feel free to throw in your two, three or more penneth, on the Finney 7 A4 when I start it.

Cheers,
Peter

 

[AJC]

What can I say about Tim Watson's A4 build in the MRJ other than inspirational. If I recall, he was and maybe still is, a 2mm modeller and the Finney A4 was his first foray in 7mm. What a fantastic build. I used it as a reference work along with prototype photos for my Acme A4 and found it very helpful.

Tim,
If you read this, feel free to throw in your two, three or more penneth, on the Finney 7 A4 when I start it.

@Tim Watson is certainly still working in 2mm (and, I understand, is the current president of the MRC in London). He's got an article on working Walschert's valvegear in the current MRJ and a thread which details, among other things a 2mm Finescale P2 here: TFW’s workshop which is frightening and instructive in equal measure.

He's more than a bit good.

Adam

 

[Tim Watson]

Many thanks for the kind comments. My modelling tastes are quite diverse these days, but predominantly still 2mm (with other experiments in the offing) and 1/3rd scale traction engines.

I must admit that I have probably forgotten much of the Finney A4 build as it was rather a long time ago, but it will all come back to me as you do yours. Making the valve gear reversible nowadays is comparatively a walk in the park, with aero servos and DCC. Couldn’t do it on my P2 as there is absolutely no room with the lifting link tucked behind the motion support bracket. Quite easy on the Pacifics in comparison.

Tim

 

[P A D]

Thanks Adam, for pointing me to Tim Watson's thread. A P2 smaller than a sausage. Brilliant!

I would need a magnifying lens the size of a dust bin lid to be able to work in 2mm.

Tim,
My brother keeps a stash of old MRJs and I 've read your article so many times over the years. It's timeless and by any standards a fantastic build. Any comments on this or any future builds are most welcome.
Cheers,
Peter

 

[adrian]

I would need a magnifying lens the size of a dust bin lid to be able to work in 2mm.

I used to think that way but in some aspects I think that 2mmFS is easier than 7mm (finescale or S7). We all play around with stupidly small bits of metal so is your firebox cleat 7mm - MOK BR Standard 4MT Tank that different to a lamp-iron in 2mmFS? The bigger the scale the more detail you end up adding - I've built as many 2mmFS wagons in 2yrs as I have 7mm wagons in 20 years . I still really enjoy being able to switch between S7 and 2mmFS as it's just a different perspective on modelling - I'm also tempted to get a couple of Mike Williams G3 wagons just to go the other way for a bit of fun!!

 

[P A D]

Hi Adrian,
A very valid point. However my model railway interests are very limited, being 7mm locos. For me the more detail I can add the more I enjoy it. I've done the working lubricator linkages on an Acme A4 and will do the same for the Finney 7. I assume it's similar to 2mm finescale valve gear. But could the lubricators links be done in 2mm? Maybe, but not by me. I admire the skill and dexterity involved in working in 2mm, but it's just not my cup of tea.
Cheers,
Peter

 

[P A D]

The motor and gearbox from ABC arrived at the weekend.



However, progress has slowed due to being distracted reassembling the Duchess, but I managed to fit the sieve box and feed pipes to the injectors. The locating hole for the sieve box it too far out and needed elongating to allow the casting to be fit closer in towards the frames .


This is to allow the pipes to be fitted, but even so I still had to curve the outer pipe to clear the step.

And soldered in place. To allow for the removal of the body the pipes are separated behind the steps.


They loop back under the injectors and then curve up and behind the front edge of the step.


From the side the pipes look continuous from injectors to sieve box.


Cheers,
Peter

 

[P A D]

To complete the plumbing at the rear end I have added the brake and steam heating pipes running to the fittings on the buffer beam. On the right hand side, to make fitting easier, I split the pipe at the union behind the rearmost tank support.

With the model reassembled, it's clear that the rear bogie wheel may foul the pipe on curves, but I will check that later and adjust as appropriate.


On the other side the pipework from the hole in the frames near the lifting link was fitted back to the large pipe unions under the cab. The rear pipe from the inner union loops up under the tank and I added a simple support from waste etch soldered to the frame. The outer union has a longer central pipe that was solder directly to the frame where it loops up under the tank.


From the outer union, the rearward pipe passes through a bracket on the forward tank support. I again separated the pipe at this junction to aid fitting. I think clearance to the rear bogie on this side will be OK on curves but I will of course check that.

The forward right hand tank support under the cab has a bank of grease nipples at the lower edge. I represented these with copper wire just fed through the holes and soldered in place. Here they are during fitting.


The copper wire representing the pipes was looped up inside the frame and soldered. As on the right hand side, the central support bracket for the pipes had the outer tabs removed to disguise it. Dummy supports were added as on the right hand side.


Surprisingly, the kit does not include the ash pan operating lever and I don't think I've seen it on photos of any completed models. I used one from Ragstone which is for a Britannia. The operating lever is too long and the loop for the turning rod is on the inside. I shortened the lever and added a new loop from tube soldered to the outside. To fix the casting to the ash pan I soldered a simple support to the rear of the casting. Here it is before fitting to the ash pan.


And in place after reporting to the bottom and side of the ash pan.


Here's the motor with the "compensation bracket" in place.


The reassembled chassis with the motor in place. It looks quite complex, but it is relatively easy to assemble , as everything fits so precisely.


And from the other side.


Here's some shots after I gave it all a clean and reassembled it.


I just need to fit the sand pipes to complete the chassis, but it's starting to look more like the real thing.


The shiny, shiny thing.




I'm off on holiday for two weeks and will unfortunately miss Telford, so I wish all who will be attending, an enjoyable day (or two) out. Don't forget, my Duchess will be on Warren Haywood's stand, so go and have a shufty if you at interested. I'm sure Warren will be happy to take on your commissions.
Cheers,
Peter

 

[Pencarrow]

Peter, the 4MT std tanks are one of my favourite loco classes (along with Bulleid WC, Drummond T9, Maunsell N Class and Adams O2). Your build captures the brutish, but functionally good looking class superbly. The masses of detail and pipe runs you've added really lift the model. Superb.

(if you ever get bored of it I'll more than happily give it a home!)

 

[P A D]

Hi Pencarrow,
Many thanks. The pipe runs are all catered for in the kit. There are a few more oil pipes to be added to the valve/ slide bar area, but I need to work out where to anchor the top ends to stop them flopping about.

I gave it a spin on the rollers and all seems to be in order. When I get the pick ups on will be the real test though.


Thanks for your kind offer to take it off my hands when I'm bored with it. I'll give it some thought.

I've thought about it and no. Nice try though.

Cheers,
Peter

 

[P A D]

Back from holiday and back to the 4MT.
To complete the pipework under the cab I have added the drain pipe to the large union on the inner pipe and a tiny fixing bracket was made from spare boiler band.

Next the sand pipes which have nice brass castings for the inlet, where the steam is injected to force the sand onto the rails. So far only the rear ones have Had the pipe to the sand box added.


The other side.


On the rear pipes there is a sand valve at the bottom of the sandbox, but this is not included in the kit. Strange when you considers the overall excellence of the kit and the high cost. Fortunately I had a set of Peter Roles LMS ones and two of these were modified to fit. The sand pipes are 0.8mm NS and the steam pipes 0.6mm copper. It's starting to look a bit cluttered between the wheels.


Cheers,
Peter

 

[Compton castle]

What a truly fantastic build, The STD 4 tank is probably the best looking tank Loco ever built. I will have to add one of these to my collection at some point.
Steve

 

[warren haywood]

I’ve painted Peters Duchess and seen this loco up close and personal. I can honestly say his work is as good as the best out there. It’s a pleasure to paint models of this quality, makes my job so much easier.

 

[P A D]

I’ve painted Peters Duchess and seen this loco up close and personal. I can honestly say his work is as good as the best out there. It’s a pleasure to paint models of this quality, makes my job so much easier.

Many thanks Warren. That's much appreciated, knowing that many fine models must have passed through your hands.

Thanks also to you Steve. On scenic modelling, your work must be up there with the best, judging by your Dawlish thread.

I'm edging closer to the finishing line as far as the external detailing is concerned. However, first an apology to MOK as the sand valves are included. Some dozy git couldn't see the wood for the sprues, either in the flesh, or on the pictures in the instructions!

The sand pipes are now completed and I have also added the oil pipes to the cylinders and slide bar area. I've left the modified PRC sand valves in place.



Here's a closer look at the oil pipes (0.4mm copper wire).



And from an angle showing that the top end of the pipe is free.


Not ideal, but they can't be fixed to the frames or the cylinders won't be removable and there's nothing else to anchor them to. I soldered the ends together with a good dollup of solder so they should be robust tucked away behind the hanging plate. Note there is a gap between the pipes and the frames to clear the bracket under the lubricator. Not the sharpest of images but you can see the gap better below. The pipes from the top of the cylinders are anchored at the back of the steam pipes.


Finally the brake and heating pipes have been added. The design caters for the use of silicon tube or springs, but I prefer to have non flexible material for these parts and made my own from 1.7mm OD brass tube, tapped 10BA to represent the ribbing. I've yet to add the stowage chain to the steam heat pipes and I see that the buffer stock at the far side is not quite straight. The same can be said for the one at the front so both will require some attention.


After that I just need to add the cylinder drains cocks and pipes to complete the exterior details. Then there is the electrical pick ups to do and of course the boiler back plate which is a model on its own.
Cheers,
Peter

 

[adrian]

Thanks for posting all the details - if it hasn't already then this is rapidly becoming the reference thread to consult for anyone building one of these kits.

 

[P A D]

Thanks for posting all the details - if it hasn't already then this is rapidly becoming the reference thread to consult for anyone building one of these kits.

Thanks Adrian.
I have to say, I found your build on your Cherryclan website very useful and would recommend it to anyone building one of these kits, along with Tony Geary's build on RMW and Ken's build in the members section on here. I believe we can all learn from each other and it's great that so many top builders are willing to describe in detail how they do things. Gone are the days of the grumpy old farts who's response to a querie was "if I told you that you would be as wise as me" or something similar, and good riddance to them.
Cheers,
Peter

 

[farnetti]

I am looking forward to the pipe work, especially after seeing these photos. Can you describe where the pipe goes from the single reservoir that sits at the rear of the cylinders between the slidebars?

I am still working on the valve gear, there is a clearance problem using MOK crankpins in S7. A solution is in hand which I will explain in my next post in Dikitrikis' WOMW. Also two expansion link bearings were missing and have been collected at Guildex

Ken

 

[P A D]

Hi Ken,
As can be seen in this rather cruel close up, the the pipe passes behind the pressure relief valve. Its very short and terminates above the piston rod just next to the stuffing gland, where I presume oil drips on to the rod to lubricate it. There's an image in the photos of 80002 that I posted earlier.

 

[P A D]

Some further progress.

First correcting the skew whiff buffer stocks. This gave me a chance to try out my new toy, an Iroda solderpro 120 butane soldering iron. I've read good things about these irons on here and RMW, so I thought it was time give one a try. In this case I used it as a gas torch with the bit removed. After fluxing around the offending stock, I gripped it near the base with a pair of pliers, then applied the flame to the top and waited for the flux to bubble and the solder to melt. A little tweak and it was done. Here's the front one (on the left) after cleaning up. The stowage chain has also been added to the steam heating pipe using twisted wire.

On the rear however, the stock would not twist and here's why. The beam has two locating holes for lugs on the back of the cast base to fit into, to line them up (or not in my case). I enlarged one of the holes and filed off one of the lugs so that the stock could turn slightly. I then refitted .


No chain yet on the steam pipe.


Next the lagged pipe on the on the train steam heat valve on the right side of the fire box. Following comments by Ken (Farnetti) on his build in the members section, I decided the pipe should loop back into the cab, not disappear down behing the side tank. Here's the replacement after fitting .


Be nice if I could get something right first time, without all this back tracking.

Next the cylinder drain cocks and piping.
These are the cocks for the right hand side, with the long extension facing to the rear One goes at the front of the cylinder and one at the rear, with a centre one not shown. I decided to modify these parts as they look over large to me, and make it very difficult to fit the forward running pipe to the middle fitting. I sawed off the extension just where they widen towards the rear, and then drilled a hole for the drain pipe (0.6mm copper wire).


Here's the left hand side on the real thing.


And on the model. I need to add the clip and maybe trim them a little, but l think they look the part.


T'other side. Again the clip has yet to be added.


Just about finished the external detailing, but I note that on 80002, there is a grease lubrication box central between the front and middle driving wheels, low down on the frame. I need to check my
refference books to see if these are prototypical or post preservation additions. Here's a couple of gratuitous broadside views to finish the post.




One point to note for anyone with one of these in the pipeline. On the left hand side, the pipe running from behind the cab steps back to the brake fitting at the rear has no support along it's length, and being copper is prone to bending during handling. With hindsight, I should have used brass or electrum as they are more robust. Also, the copper wire and cast brass pipe from the brake fitting are only butt jointed and again not very robust. K added a short length of brass tube to beef it up. It's hidden behind the step plate.
Cheers,
Peter