7mm On Heather's Workbench - three is a magic number

Heather Kay

Western Thunderer
Last night, I cleared the bench, tidied the tools, swept away the swarf and arranged things so I could dive into the next project.

I have received a commission, via JLTRT, to build three ex-GWR Colletts, a D94 Brake Third, a C54 Third and E127 Composite, to be finished in early BR "blood and custard" livery. Not being terribly familiar with things Swindon, I have borrowed some books and scoured the internet (not terribly successfully, I might add), and now feel fairly comfortable that I can construct the three coaches to a reasonable standard. Any queries I come across will have to be referred to the client, or I'll pipe up here. You have been warned. ;)

The fit and finish has been agreed with the client. While the underframes and bogies will be finished in my patent mucky brown finish, the topsides will be in pristine satin finish for the client to weather as they wish. There will be basic compensation built into the bogies (oh my, no brakes again - must check with the client on that), the heating and braking hoses left "dangling", and there'll be real glass in the windows.

Mr Waterman's train set represents the railways he recalls from his youth, and I get the distinct impression these Collett coaches have been engineered to suit his requirements. I expect great things. So, having checked each box contained all the required components to build at least one coach, I set to. I've elected to build the D94 first, to get a feel for the way these kits go together.

I checked the sides and ends against the floor. There's about half a millimetre overhang of the sides against the ends. Careful checking of the photos doesn't show such a feature, so I guess there'll be a fit of sanding required to get a flush fit. That'll have to be done before painting commences, which will be done while the sides are in the flat.

As with most kits that have a varied internal structure, the roof is plain with no moulded holes for ventilators. There is a paper template to aid with drilling, matched to each prototype. The template also appears to show the transverse strips that covered the steel roof sheets. I need to check they are according to the drawings in the books, but I have marked the locations in pencil on the moulding.

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Can you spot the deliberate mistake?

The ventilator holes are marked up over the brake end. They should be over the compartments. No problem, just rotate by 180 degrees - except the vents would be over the corridor. Assuming the marked holes should be the same side of the centreline, the template must be flipped.

(One photo reference seems to show ventilators all the way down the coach. Should I even go there?)

I pricked through each vent centre and taped the template to the roof.

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Over to the pillar drill, I propped the roof up a little so the holes should let the vents sit on the curve of the roof properly. I drilled out each hole 2mm diameter.

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In this shot you can see the pricked through centres on the right. I realise you could just prick through the centres onto the roof moulding, but I prefer to drill through the template (when it's printed the right way up, of course).

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A neat row of holes. You can just make out pencil marks over the gutter. These mark the transverse strips over the roof joints. According to the references, it was a 2in wide strip, so I need 1.5mm wide Evergreen or Plastikard strip - or even cartridge paper! - to glue across. Of course, nothing supplied in the kit. :rolleyes:

Contemplation moved to the interiors. For some reason that escapes me, the interior etches for the brake have had solid windows to the compartments for about a decade (the etch is dated 2004). No-one seems to have spotted this error, as I assume it to be an error. The reverse (compartment side) of the etch is half-etched away, so it looks like it should have gone right through like the other door and window etches on the fret. The other kits are etched through. Most odd. I will raise the question with Laurie when I see him at Reading.

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It's been agreed that I will open these windows out. I think it'll be done with our little milling machine, with final finishing by file. I'll cover the mechanics of that when I come to it. Of course, the question arises, should the sliding doors to the luggage compartment also have clear windows?

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I have to say, they don't look like they should be open. They will, therefore, remain solid.

I know the D94s were built in batches that included left- and right-handed brakes. This was done so the corridors could be marshalled the same side of the train all the way along, which is a nice, if somewhat OCD, touch. The coach I'm building is a south paw.

The underframe bits include brake cross members that allow for the vac cylinder to be mounted inside or outside. Obviously, the instructions mention this not, though the construction photos show an outside cylinder. The client has given me a running number (4758) which fits Lot 1353 of December 1925, but how the blinking flip am I supposed to work out where the vac cylinders were fitted? All the reference books I have can muster roughly four photos of D94s in service, and most are so small as to be fairly hopeless for such detail picking.

So, I can tell this build is going to be an adventure right from the start! :drool:
 

Heather Kay

Western Thunderer
Of course, as has rightly been pointed out off list, I actually have a right-hand coach in the box, despite what it says on the end label. :confused::))
 

3 LINK

Western Thunderer
Hi Heather,

Recently I have finished a JLTRT GWR B set, and to be honest I was not happy with their glazing method. It looks to me like there is a slight chamfer on the sides of the windows, does that mean they will only fit a certain way ? As usual there are no instructions :rolleyes: so I was wondering if you could shed some light on this :thumbs:.

ATB,

Martyn.
 

Heather Kay

Western Thunderer
Recently I have finished a JLTRT GWR B set, and to be honest I was not happy with their glazing method.

I wasn't terribly impressed with the pre-cut sheet, I have to admit. I'll have a look at how it works with what's in the box, but when it comes to the final job I'm going to be using CPL's microscope slide glass method.

I'll take a look at the supplied stuff in the morning and report back.
 

Heather Kay

Western Thunderer
I sat down to begin work yesterday, but kept getting pulled up short by lack of information. Graham B has given me the contact details for one of the authors of the standard references, so I am compiling a list of questions I hope he can answer. Graham is a treasure. I feel I ought to say that in a public forum. ;)

The list keeps growing. Bear in mind, the following items are not in the kits. That's correct. A kit that costs more than £200 is missing some quite significant bits.
  • Details of where and how to fit the roof handrails. :(
  • Water tank access hatch. I know there's a brass etch for the hatch, but there's no circular filler/overflow doodad, which is quite a prominent feature even from ground level. :oops:
  • Steps for the ends of the coach. :eek:
  • Lamp brackets. :mad:
  • Emergency communication gear. :confused:
  • Bogie brake gear (surprise!). :rant:
  • Bogie steps. :headbang:
Yet each box contains a full set of castings for the guard's compartment - even on non-brake coaches. You can't even see the inside of the guard's compartment. You cansee missing lamp brackets and end steps.

Most of the missing gear is available from CPL. This all adds to the cost of the build, and wasn't quoted for. I have to check with the client to see how much he's prepared to pay for.

UPDATE: It does appear the end steps and lamp brackets are only missing from the D94 brake. Both other kits feature the missing parts on the underframe etch. *sigh*
 

Steph Dale

Western Thunderer
Heather,

It wouldn't surprise me if these kits are designed around the CPL parts you list, but I'm utterly amazed they're not mentioned or included. Worth also checking with the guys at Orion and Hurn to see what they do; I've got a short stack of their bits for helping with some Cavalier GWR carriages.

As an aside, the CPL sprung bogie etches seem to include brake gear, at least at the ends of the bogie. It might be worth you/your client investigating?

Steph
 

Heather Kay

Western Thunderer
Cheers Steph! Do you have links or contact info for Orion and Hurn?

I'm just composing an email to my client to see what they think. Looks like I shall be spending some money with CPL at Reading in a fortnight.
 

Steph Dale

Western Thunderer
Cheers Steph! Do you have links or contact info for Orion and Hurn?

Heather,


Both are listed with email details on the G0G website. Apologies, but with only the tablet available at the moment linking email addresses in to this page is a bit tricky... I've found both very easy to deal with by email or phone.


Steph
 

Dog Star

Western Thunderer
In the late 1960s / early 1970s Swindon disbanded the test train and most of the carriages in that rake were bought by preservationists, primarily GWS and DVR. Of relevance to this thread is that many of the coaches were of Collet design and had remnants of late GWR upholstery - generally in the door opening of the compartment screen. If you are lucky Didcot might well have re-instated that pattern in the restored Collet coaches.

regards, Graham
 

Heather Kay

Western Thunderer
If you are lucky Didcot might well have re-instated that pattern in the restored Collet coaches.

Interesting. I've been trying to work out whether the coaches I'm building might had had their interiors refurbished in the 1950s. That might have a bearing on the internal finish.

I am wondering if a return route via Didcot might be worth the day out when coming home from Reading.
 

Heather Kay

Western Thunderer
I am honestly of the opinion that whoever "writes" the instructions for JLTRT kits never actually builds a kit. I'm certain that most of the components that ship in the box for the D94 brake third I'm building have never been assembled into an actual model before.

I began work on the underframe today. First up, fit the blocks into which the bogie bolts fit. Because Colletts came in a variety of bogie centres, someone actually sat down and worked out a method whereby they could cover all the bases in one hit. Using a cast block, it is possible to cover three different centres.

Once I'd worked out which orientation I needed for the 57ft coaches in this batch, I cleaned up the casting and tapped it into the moulded slot on the floor casting.

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I marked the hole I wanted to use, and the direction of buffer beam just to make sure they fitted properly.

Next, I tackled the etched truss beams. Lots of fiddly folding, and I like to clean off the etched cusps.

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Here are the parts. Brake cross-rod vees and cylinder mountings, the etches shaped like capital Es are the transverse queen posts, and the long trusses themselves.

Some time later, I had more or less got everything folded up in the right order. I then realised I needed some extra bracing across the transverse posts (photos are wonderful things at times), and I found suitable bits on the fret.

A happy hour or two was spent dry-fitting everything to more or less fit the floor, and soldering it all together. Nothing is fitted permanently to the floor just yet, as the brake cylinder assemblies have to fit in place first.

The cylinder assembly is quite well thought out. A brass casting provides the cross rod with the cylinder and brake rodding attachments cast in place. A little while opening up holes at the end of the cylinder actuating lever, and carefully drilling through the cylinder centre post meant I could drop a bit of thin wire through and a dab of solder later would hold it all in place.

Another dry fit, this time with the truss frame to check clearances.

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Hang on, that doesn't look right. Surely the brake gear should clear the truss?

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I have a sneaking suspicion the truss beam should pass below the cross rod. Back to the photos again...

Nope. It's wrong. The vee hangers are about a millimetre too tall. I'm going to have to grind away the floor to drop the cylinder assembly to the right height. :headbang:
 

Steph Dale

Western Thunderer
Heather,
I hope you'll feed this back to the manufacturer; it's for the sorts of reasons you describe that they're all-too-frequently called NQLTRT...
Steph
 

Dog Star

Western Thunderer
I have a sneaking suspicion the truss beam should pass below the cross rod. Back to the photos again...

Nope. It's wrong. The vee hangers are about a millimetre too tall. I'm going to have to grind away the floor to drop the cylinder assembly to the right height.
Par for the course, same problem with the Gresley kits... however, please check the etchings, when in place, against the drawings for the coach in question. I say this because in a desire to achieve economy of scale across the range of Gresley kits, or maybe a lack of knowledge, the floor / solebar moulding for those carriages has recess for the vacuum cylnder etch in the correct places for truss rod undeframes and the incorrect place for angle iron underframes... and the angle iron trusses foul the V-hangers. When I measured the etchings and compared the results against official drawings I came to the conclusion that the etchings were correct and therefore I had to move the recess by as much as 5mm along the floor (not deeper).

Similarly, check the length of the vacuum cylinder lever on the brake cross-shaft against the drawings - the photo suggests that the lever might be 2 to 3mm too long (which is what I found with the LNER kits).

GWR coaches had a Direct Admission valve mounted on the underframe, near to the vac cyl. are those items in the kit? And a steam heat drain valve under the floor at the centre of the coach?

regards, Graham
 

Heather Kay

Western Thunderer
GWR coaches had a Direct Admission valve mounted on the underframe, near to the vac cyl. are those items in the kit? And a steam heat drain valve under the floor at the centre of the coach?

They are. :thumbs: I've not fitted anything like that yet, as I want to get the main components in the right place. There's a rather superb under-the-frame shot showing the position and orientation of the DA valve in one of the books.

(For JLTRT Mk1 fans, the vac cylinder and DA valve castings will be familiar, as they are the same. It does seem like a lot of Swindon found its way into the BR design, both in real life and in JLTRT form.)

I spent a good couple of hours scrabbling back and forth in the references trying to match lot numbers and drawing numbers. In the end, I've had to assume the 57ft underframe didn't really get a proper drawing. (Joke!) Everything seems to be about where it ought to be, but I couldn't locate the one dimension I really needed, which was bottom of solebar/floor to bottom of truss centre section.

I shall fire off an email or two to various parties to see if that info can be had. If it is readily available, then I have some concrete evidence the truss is right or wrong and can make adjustments accordingly. It does seem as if the vee is too long - and I can find dimensioned drawings of this component. If this is the case, then carving away the floor is the most sensible option.

I'm looking forward to a day of bashing about. While I await further info on underframes, I shall probably make a start on the D94 innards.
 

Heather Kay

Western Thunderer
You amaze me Heather with your dedication and total commitment to what you do and don't you do it well

Says the man who is bashing Big Big coaches into an EMU! :))

I was always taught that if a job is worth doing, it's worth doing well. I could just throw these kits together, and I am sure the client would be quite happy. Sadly, I can't just throw them together, because bits don't fit. I kind of enjoy that challenge, in a perverse way.

Incidentally, I think I've figured out where the truss and vee hanger error is. Having found a drawing with a dimension, which is happily almost to 7mm scale, the model truss centre is about three scale inches too low. In addition, the vee hangers are about six inches too long. The combination means the vees hit the middle of the truss. I can live with the truss being too low, but I shall have to carve away the floor to let the vees sit at about the right height.

I took photos, but they're still in the camera. I'll add a new post later with images. :thumbs:
 

Heather Kay

Western Thunderer
And as threatened, here's today's update.

I deviated from the interiors. I decided to spend the day sorting out the second vac cylinder assembly, and getting the dynamo and buffers sorted out. This was partly because the workbench temperature-controlled soldering station failed to start. I had to spend a while retrieving the backup unit from the upstairs workshop, and seeing whether the broken one could be fixed or not. It seems spare parts are still available, so they have been ordered. Meanwhile, I've been using the backup unit for today's shenanigans.

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First, here's a simulation of the vac cylinder, vee hangers and cross rod as it would appear from under the coach. If you were in an inspection pit, laying on your back. And someone had stolen all the scrap metal from the coach.

First, you'll note I have neglected to pose the cylinder actuating lever on the plunger rod. Second, you'll note the cross rod is a single brass casting. It takes a while to straighten, clean up, drill through and ream out the various holes, but it looks nice. Once everything's settled and glued in place I'll trim the ends back.

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Here's the same thing, as it appears while working on the model. The direct admission valve fits on the inner truss angle to our right. I ought to fabricate a natty little bracket to fix it to, since that's how it is on the real thing.

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Both cylinder assemblies ready to fit - once the issues about height, depth, width, volume, area, etc, are sorted out.

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I did my usual trick with the dynamo. I've drilled through the hanging bracket, and carefully through the bracket on the dynamo casting to take a short length of 0.7mm brass wire which acts as the hinge. The dynamo on the real McCoy was designed to move a little back and forth on its bracket in order to allow for bogie movement. This arrangement on the model lets the dynamo adopt a nearly accurate attitude, after which it can be glued in place. I'll add a representation of the belt which wanders into the gloom of the bogie, the safety chain - though I haven't seen one in photos yet - and once I've figured out how it goes I'll fit some copper wire to represent the electrical wiring loom.

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The Collett kits come supplied with optional buffing gear. By that I mean there are double-base or single-base stocks, round or oval buffers. All the photos show single-base and round, so there'll be twelve double-base oval buffers and stocks going into the bits box, or being donated to a worthy cause.

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Even the round buffers have the rectangular section to prevent the head turning. I guess the round heads replaced oval heads at some point during overhauls, but the stocks remained the same. The buffers in the kits are fairly tidy brass castings, which need to be parted from their sprues and cleaned up to make a sliding fit. The stocks need their holes drilled and broached out to make a slide fit. It takes probably an hour per buffer. Sheesh. Tolerances could be better, surely? Anyway, the springing is effected by wire behind the buffer beam itself, in ABS style, using the drawhook as part of the mix. That'll have to wait until I've fitted the buffer beams to the floor, which'll have to wait for those pesky dimensional things to be sorted out.

Anyway, it doesn't look much for a day's work, but that's a fair few sub-assemblies ready to fit. I'll really tackle the interiors tomorrow, though I am out seeing a new client about some design work in the morning.
 

richard carr

Western Thunderer
Heather,
I hope you'll feed this back to the manufacturer; it's for the sorts of reasons you describe that they're all-too-frequently called NQLTRT...
Steph


Sadly Steph, my experience of feeding back to JLTRT thing is pointless, Laurie can't afford to spend time fixing kits he hasn't said that directly but he has certainly implied it to me, I can understand too as I get the feeling that Pete isn't throwing money at it anymore.
I still love kits even though some have some distinct errors and glaring omissions


Richard
 
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