"real" Diesel-electric In Model Engineer

Discussion in 'G1/32' started by Simon Dunkley, 28 September 2012.

  1. The latest/current ME, issue no 4439, dated 21 Sept - 4 Oct, contains the first part of a series on building a working diesel-electric in G1, based on the good old Brush 47 - only 40 years or so after the Symes/Hine collaboration!

    It has to be said that the finished job suggests that the mechanical aspects of the project were of more interest to the builder than the aethetics, but it is interesting none the less. If anyone ever produced etchings for the body, then there is potential for a really impressive model.
     
  2. JimG

    JimG Western Thunderer

    Simon,

    I got the feeling that it won't be a full, warts and all, construction article with him describing all the constituent parts in the first part, and how they were coupled together. I was waiting to see what the next part was like before recommending a look, or otherwise. The fact that the second part is following on in the next issue is a consideration. Proper construction articles in the ME have traditionally appeared in every second edition.

    Jim.
     
  3. Hi Jim,

    Must admit that my feeling is that it won't be a detailed "how-to", but that suitable component parts will be highlighted - especially the key items such as suitable engine, as the "Taplin Twin" of 40 years ago is long out of production!
     
  4. Steph Dale

    Steph Dale Western Thunderer

    Simon,

    There are G1 kits produced by the Wagon and Carriage Works. Blow-ups from the PWP/RJH kits, I suppose. And I suspect they're 10mm/ft rather than 1:32...

    I'll have a look out for the mag - the thought experiment alone could be entertaining...

    Steph
     
  5. Phill Dyson

    Phill Dyson Western Thunderer

    Is there much point when the model engine used sounds nothing like the engine in the real loco ?, I think I would rather go down the sound chip/boom box route on an electricaly powered or R/C loco myself ...........I would quite like to do one of those W & C G1 diesels though:)
     
  6. Ian G

    Ian G Western Thunderer

    How about a Warship
    and the 47 with a loose body

    Ian G
     
  7. mickoo

    mickoo Western Thunderer

    Please don't go there, I'd hate to see a grown man cry, images of finished products are hard to find and a finished product should be no reflection on the kit but more the constructor, but when every image seen follows the same pattern, then the wallet moths are safe from release.

    The Deltic is so far mi-shaped it makes Triangs first efforts positively accurate, the 37 and 45 fair little better and to be fair a gent over 'there' has done a pretty good job of the 40 and that's about the best I've seen of the W&CW gauge 1 diesels. If your used to Fred Phipps quality then I think you will be disappointed or will need an inordinate amount of effort and rebuilding to get there, just my view from the few images I have seen.

    I'd love to be proved wrong if anyone has any good images of their products well made.

    And yes, I'm afraid they are 10mm.

    Kindest
     
  8. Yes: the engineering challenge.
    Simple as that.
    Wrong scale for the gauge, apart from any other faults...
    (Edit: take the "&" out of W&C and you may find a suitable destination for them...)
     
  9. Phill Dyson

    Phill Dyson Western Thunderer

    If I did want a G1 Western (which I don't )... well no yet he he, I would think about a W&C kit as it is the only Western in that scale & I have built the PRMRP Western which is the same kit after all :)
    Not in the same league as Fred's 1/32 stuff of course though .... all just pie in the sky for me though as I'm commited to 7mm f/s for the foreseeable future :)
     
  10. Hi Phill,

    You touch on an interesting point: "realism". To many in the G1 fraternity, close fidelity to the prototype (even the scale) are of secondary importance. To them, a steam loco is more realistic if powered by steam, even if it does not compare brilliantly to the prototype (I am aware that Aster buck the trend here, but I am thinking more of the builders rather than the buyers). I agree that an electrically powered model with decent sound effects and maybe a smoke unit would more closely resemble the look and sound of the prototype, but that is, to attempt to draw a distinction, a model railway approach. To a model engineer, this is often not the approach taken, and to be honest they can be a bit snobby about it, with potential for amusing conversations.

    As an example, the late and great Nick Dillon once commented to me that he didn't think much of the SM32 crowd, because they used externally fired locos (even most gas burners with a "centre-flue" boiler are externally fired, as the exhaust is not required to draw the fire) and the locos had bowdlerised valve gear that didn't allow notching up, whereas most G1 locos were more realistic as being internally fired, you had to learn to drive them. I innocently asked how many prototypes were fired by methylated spirits, and required to be push for two revolutions of the drivers to change direction - and pointed out that slip-eccentric locos aren't usually notched up, either. He was a practical man and prepared to concede the point. I did, and still do, agree with him, though, that an internally fired loco where you have to learn to balance regulator, water bypass, fuel rate and so on is more challenging, closer to the real thing in many ways, and more fun. The interesting point is that SM32 grew from being much, much smaller than G1 to a lot bigger, and a lot more affordable, precisely because externally fired locos produce steam at a constant rate and allow one to sit back and enjoy the running.

    It all goes back to realism - for me, SM32 and G1 steam is spoilt by the "tick-tick-tick" rather than something more bassy and resonant, and whilst the Summerlands Chuffer goes someway to addressing this, it isn't really enough. Mind you, there is room for a really big bass speaker in most G1 tenders and diesel bodies... ;)

    To me, the big advantage of G1 is that it has the potential to be the meeting point of model railways and model engineering, although I suspect that G3 is delivering more on this front.
     
    adrian, mickoo and Phill Dyson like this.
  11. Phill Dyson

    Phill Dyson Western Thunderer

    Hi Simon,

    Yes that was sort of what I was hinting at, to me live steam in G1 & over adds to the realism over & above super detail on a working loco.........large scale (G1 & over) electrically powered steam loco's just seem lifeless to me.
    But on the other hand, diesels with totally un-prototypical diesel power plants just seems to detract from the realism of the model for me personally :)
     
  12. mickoo

    mickoo Western Thunderer

    Simon, I have a friend who models steam G1, nice 4F he has and is currently scratch building a Patriot, I asked if he was going to add rivets and such like to the tender, or brake rigging etc, the look on his face was a sight!, your right, they're not modellers in my mind but miniature engineers and it's the steam 'working' bit that motivates them, the rest is just sundries to mentally add when viewing the item, much like electric modellers mentally fill in the gaps for the smell and to some extent the sound.
     
  13. Jordan

    Jordan Mid-Western Thunderer

    For me, the 'Live Steam Track' at Telford is spoilt by the lack of visible smoke and steam from the locos - it almost seems like "what's the point being powered by steam if it doesn't even look like it?" :confused:

    Someone should throw an oily rag in the firebox!!:D
     
  14. Phill Dyson

    Phill Dyson Western Thunderer

    That's one of the reasons why I think live steam works better in G1 & over;) ........although on a frosty day on a garden railway 7mm live steam & the larger scales for that matter would look much better :cool:
     
  15. ceejaydee

    ceejaydee Western Thunderer

    Most G1 steamers that I've seen seem to run by far too quickly to leave any smoke hanging as it usually gets dissipated by the supersonic slipstream.
     
  16. Phill Dyson

    Phill Dyson Western Thunderer

    This one looks quite nice, although you can't see much steam :)

     
  17. Simon

    Simon Flying Squad

    That's Bill Read's Aster with the different tender to that supplied in the kit, he also added the rear screens to the cab and built his own cab doors. A few years ago Bill scratch built and then painted and weathered very effectively three mineral wagons, including a 21Ton example, albeit in 10mm scale.

    Bill is our current newsletter editor and a good "practitioner" of live steam operation. I think G1 goes too fast on the whole, it destroys the illusion of mass and can also have spectacular results, I've seen an Aster A3 plant itself in a rockery at about Mach 1, although to be fair it had become detached from its tender and train!!

    I would suggest that the 10mm coaches behind the 1/32 loco and van also demonstrate just how happy is the marriage between the two scales:))

    Simon
     
  18. adrian

    adrian Flying Squad

    My Dad used to have a couple of coal-fired 7mm live steams, there was a definite art to getting them steaming sweetly, they were fitted with Baker valve gear so could be notched up, and a real sense of achievement when they did run well.
     
  19. Well, you can't actually see steam anyway, technically speaking.
    What we see is steam condensate, where it is interacting with the surrounding air. On a hot day, little steam will show.
    The other thing we rarely see is smoke, of course.

    Sorry if that is too pedantic for some. ;)

    PS. Plus several million re Simon's comment on the 10mm scale coaches. Maybe it is some night ferry stock, or the loco is running in Europe in memory of a little recorded event, the 1958 Ruritania State Railways European Steam Locomotive Exchange?
     
  20. ceejaydee

    ceejaydee Western Thunderer

    I originally said something similar in my post and then thought better of it and deleted it before making it public :)

    That said I'm glad I'm not the only one that noticed the HUGE size of 10mm when mixed with 1/32 :confused:

    OR should it be that 1/32 is so small when mixed with the bulkier 10mm? (thanks Henry)