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Discussion in 'Area 51' started by Rob Pulham, 27 November 2017.
Sorry Mark, yes standard lighter butane.
That's great, many thanks for your help.
Well I have to admit I have reached a bit of the kit instructions that have really stumped me...
"Take coal space sides, note the handling and drill 1.85mm at half etched pops if fitting scoop and tank vents, then fold so that the sides fit into the coal space front plate, tack into position taking care to be square to front plate. Sit the assembly into it's slot in the sole plate and tack onto position square 'each way'"
I found the parts easily enough and put them together how I interpreted the instructions but then found that there was nowhere/way that they would fit.
There is a plan and top down outline drawing supplied but I can't figure out from which bit is the coal space front plate or which orientation it fits in.
My only saving grace is that there is one of these tenders attached to the C1 Atlantic at Locomotion so I plan to see if I can get aboard it when I am there next weekend to see how the coal chute/plate is made up on the real thing.
I am on my way to Telford tomorrow so I will have better things to think about until mid next week.
The plot thickens. It seems that there are two externally visibly the same tenders which may well be the 3000 gallon version and the 3500 gallon versions.
By extreme good fortune this year I have taken photos of both. I had forgotten the other until today though.
The first one is located at Shildon, attached to the C1 large-boilered Atlantic and, as proposed in a recent post, I asked one of the museum assistants if I could be accompanied aboard to take photos of the tender top on Saturday and he obliged.
The other is attached by coincidence to the small-boilered Atlantic Henry Oakley whom I encountered at York earlier in the year. Although not great and I didn't get aboard, I did get enough details from my photos to work out which version I need for the J6 and more importantly that the coal space on the kit isn't quite like the two preserved examples each of which are similar but different.
Firstly what the kit looks like:
Next the tender attached to the Large Atlantic
I have more detailed photos of the tender top on my Flickr site but these will suffice to tell the story to date.
Lastly the tender attached to Henry Oakley and the one which I believe that I need for the J6 when compared to the couple of photos I have of the prototype – no 64206 and more importantly the type that I believe the kit is meant to represent (unless there was a third type which looked externally the same.
As I said, not the best photos but they do show that one side is higher than the other and there is a representation of lockers albeit the prototype show a small door on the higher side whereas the etch has a full height door. The key difference though is in the coal space. Both types of tender have a parallel rather plain functional coal space and I would be surprised if there was a third type that had one with the sloping sides that are inferred by the etches. I think that Malcolm Crawley got it wrong when he designed the tender kit but I would be happy to be corrected in that assumption.
Unless some evidence comes to the fore fairly soon to tell me that I am wrong I intend to modify the coal space to be more like that of the tender attached to Henry Oakely.
It's interesting to see that the rivets heads are quite flat. Do you have a date for the build of this tender?
Unfortunately not, the relevant yeadon volumes don't contain the tender information that some of the volumes do. But the puzzle is slowly coming together.
Rob, I started on the loco footplate last night: make sure you heavily scribe the valance jig before trying to bend it.
I am stumped on the tender for now as I brought the etches for a self trimming one with me but I need the horseshoe. As I posted elsewhere, I wonder if the one you have photographed is a horseshoe. I really am unsure.
Sadly I found out too late - I still have to sort out one side where I didn't score it enough. Had I not been sidelined by my foray into tenders I would have remembered to warn you when you mention about starting the footplate... Sorry.
I have received a lot of information and help from a couple of gents via RMweb and the LNER Forum - Dave Lester and Paul Craig.
With Paul's help I had determined that my tender was indeed a self trimming variety and Dave confirmed it by posting exactly the type of tender that was attached to my loco 64206 from 1935 -1960 (tender 614) and with further help from Paul I believe that I have worked out how it fits together too.
This has proven a very interesting side trip into the world of tenders from which I have learned a lot. I must also offer an apology to the late Malcolm Crawley for remotely suggesting that he might have had it wrong....
More progress to come as it happens
Well, after all the discussion and mental hand wringing by yours truly I do believe that I have cracked it.
I soldered some scrap etch into each side of the front step of the tender and sods law dictates now that I have I will find suitable parts included (I confess that I didn't even check).
It's all dry fitted at this point and before soldering I do need to check that the tank vents will fit - I may have to straighten the curve a bit to create a flat ledge for the vents to sit on but if I do I will report back.
I was right in my assumption that there would be part for the step infill - Oops!!
I was short of time last night so along with finding the step infill pieces, I only managed to assemble the front coal plate and buffer beam.
Although I haven't posted anything this week things have been progressing albeit slowly.
The reason for the slow approach has been a combination of a lot of other things intruding and the fact that I couldn't get my head around how the front coal plate shown in the last post attached to the tender front itself. While I pondered I moved along by fitting hand rail knobs to the tender sides and fitting lifting rings to the coal space sides and tank top/coal chute. I still haven't assembled the innards because I want all the sub assemblies ready and to have an understand of how things fit before committing myself.
Before getting started on anything last night I re-read the instructions and saw the wood for the trees and ended up with this. Still a bit more to do but I am happy with progress.
There is mention in the instructions of a strip 49mm (I think but I don't have the instructions to hand so I will edit the post later and confirm) x 4.5mm
but I couldn't find the part so I used a suitable piece of scrap etch to make the infill piece for the back which forms a shelf behind the coal plate.
Lastly although not needed for my build but needed for the revision of the instructions I made up the two dome options which are included a rectangular combined dome/filler and the separate dome.
On the round dome everything was a perfect fit whereas on the combined dome I had to take a sliver of the two half etched overlaps to get them to meet squarely a simple exercise that took moments to do with a pair of topiary scissors
The next job to tackle before starting to assemble everything was the flares and it proved a bit easier than anticipated. Having formed the curves I offered it up the tender and at first I was a little baffled (permanent state of mind at the minute) but quickly realised that I needed to trim the curved end of each side and then it would fit.
I only got part of it soldered on before bed time last night so tonight I will finish that and then take photos.
As promised below are some photos of the flares as fitted. there is still much cleaning up and some filling of the corners with solder to do but so far I am very pleased with how they are going.
Starting with some shots after soldering on the flares but before starting to filling the corners with solder.
Then with the mostly filled in corners.
If they are of interest I also took a series of photos of my using my Proxxon vice with one soft jaw fitted to bend the curves on the flare strips.
Coming along nicely Rob, I am always interested to see building methods and would be grateful if you could post the series of photographs please.
Will do Grahame.
As requested by Grahame,
After bending the curves in the tender flares I took a series of photos using a piece of scrap to demonstrate how easy it is using a variation of a method described to me by someone on RMweb years ago.
He used the thick rubber heel designed for replacing worn ones on shoes I use one of the rubber safe jaws of my Proxxon Vice.
First of all I just use the one soft jaw. You will note that the soft jaw has a thick triangular section that fits in the V groove of the hard vice jaw.
opposite that to form the longitudinal curve I use one of the lengths of rod that came with my Metalsmith drilling table.
Next I fit the strip to have the flare bent in it into the vice between the soft jaw and the rod using the opposite V groove to hold the rod in position and ensure that the bend is going into the thickest part of the rubber soft jaw.
Once you are happy with the position tighten the jaws to create the bend
In this photo you can just see where it's pushing against the thicker bit of rubber in the V groove
Finally a couple of shots of the finished bend.
It's worth noting that the piece of scrap that I used for the demo photos is full thickness which was just laying on my workbench all the proper flares that I have had to bend have been half etched for easier bending.
Thank you Rob for taking the time and posting the photographs very much appreciated.
Rob - I assume that the rubber jaws come in pairs - are they a Proxxon accessory?