S7 flat bottom track for a light railway/industrial rural tramway

[Osgood]

One outcome of a day sorting files is the discovery of this comparator that I pulled off the www (source unknown) back in Oct 2014.
I trust the author John Clutterbuck will not object to its showing on here - if anyone knows him could you please ask him if he is ok with this? If there is a problem I will remove it promptly.

 

[jc2001]

No worries . I'd already posted a link to this a few replies back - and my track construction article in which it originally appeared.

John

 

[Osgood]

Many thanks John - I didn’t realise you were standing so close!

I clicked on the link to your NG&I article, intending to read it at some stage, but did not notice the link above it to the chart.
I will read the article today - exactly what I was looking for!
I was not a subscriber back then but thoroughly enjoy every copy these days.

I believe Karlgarin had new dies made for their 100/7 and 82/7 rail in 2017 - bu I guess the profiles will be very similar to those in your chart above?

 

[jc2001]

I drew the Karlgarin rail profiles based on dimensions Richard provided and I would assume the new dies match the originals. He's done well if he needs new ones as I understood he had to commit to several real miles of rail.

 

[Marc Dobson]

The tramway I'm basing the layout on is a standard gauge one in the lake district. It ran from Lady Syke (Dixon's Sidings) on the Furness Rlys Lakeside branch up to the Black Beck Gunpowder mills in the Rusland Valley. It was in use from 1867 to 1928. The track bed is still visible and there is only 2 known photos of the tramway. Both of the photos are of the viaduct that carried the line across the river Leven and don't show the track bed. So I don't have a clue what weight of rail was used even if it was bull head or flat bottom. Flat bottom was my best guess.

When first open the tramway was horse traction but there is some debate on if the horses were replaced with a small loco. Of all the powder mills in the lake district was the most modern as it was the only one that was steam powered and had its own standard gauge rail link. Many horse tramways started to use small locos instead of horses when horses become required for the war effort.

There is also so some debate on if the tramway carried general goods as there were 2 sidings situated where the tramway crossed the main roads. There is one school of thought that says the sidings were for storing empty powder vans but if that was the case why put the sidings next to areas that could have public access. Surely wagon storage would be done inside the works.

Marc

 

[Osgood]

Shades of The Burneside Tramway!

 

[Overseer]

In Scale7 normal OO/HO Code 100 rail looks like this -


And the probably no longer available Marcway Code 90 looks like this -


Loco is Sandy and Potton Railway George England, later Wantage Tramway No 5.

To represent early light track I would use standard OO/HO rail rather than the Karlgarin Code 100 rail as the wider head makes the track look heavier. Early flat bottom rails had heads less than 2" wide, more modern rails had wider heads - as represented by the Karlgarin rail.

 

[Marc Dobson]

Well strange you should make the comparison. Similar set up and the motive power I was planning to use was similar. There are a good number of photos of the burneside tramway as it ran until the 60's when more people had cameras. the link will take you the the only known photos of the Blackbeck tramway.

Dickinson Photos | Black Beck Gunpowder Works Tramway Bridge (1) has the two known photos of the bridge.

 

[julian]

Hi Overseer, a

Welcome Julian.
Was the Sandy & Potton built with flat bottom or double head or bullhead rail? Flat bottom is easy to match reasonably well but lighter than late 19th Century mainline standard bullhead track is nearly impossible to model in 7mm. It is a problem which doesn't seem any closer to being resolved. Slaters do sell a Code 100 bullhead rail but it is quite narrow and a bit lacking in its profile, and there are no 7mm scale chairs available to suit it, though chairs could now be 3d printed. I have a side interest in the Sandy & Potton and have built one of the locos but have never looked into the railway itself in any detail.

Noting Osgood's comment earlier that the Southwold Railway used 45lb, this doesn't match the detailed descriptions given in at least one of the line histories. The Southwold was built with 30lb rails in 21 foot lengths and I don't think it was ever relaid with heavier rail. The remnant rails on the harbour branch were certainly small enough to have been 30lb (I did measure them once but not sure where that notebook is). The closest match to 30lb would be Code 70 in 7mm scale (just over size) or Code 60 in 1:48.

Hi Overseer, apologies for the late response but work is taking up too much time - retirement beckons though. Sorry, but I don't know whether the rail on the S&P was flat bottom etc; rather need to go to the National Archives to look at the inspector's report or else have someone transcribe it for me. However, like others I've planned to use OO style code 100 rail. Perhaps the S Scale Society code 100 and printed chairs would Great looking model of 'Shannon', by the way.

 

[JimG]

Perhaps the S Scale Society code 100

The S Scale Society's bullhead rail is Code 87 and there are plastic moulded chairs to match the rail. But you would have to talk to someone very nicely to get some if you are not a member.

Jim.

 

[Rob R]

It's the agm soon.
Come along and join, you know you really want to.

Rob

 

[MJ Bishop]

Well I must apologise, I have no idea what happened there.
I pulled two books out on Sunday - The Southwold Rly by Paye and The Welshpool & Llanfair Light Rly by Williams.
I can find no other reference book containing info on Southwold rail weight.

From Rails to Glyn Ceriog by Milner (Glyn Valley Tramway) comes 50lb, 28ft for 2’ 4 1/2” gauge.
From The Leek & Manifold Valley Lt Rly by Gratton comes 35lb, 24ft for 2’6 Gauge (Board of Trade Inspector’s report).
From The Ashover Light Railway by Gratton, Band comes 30lb ex army for 2’ gauge.
From The Lynton & Barnstaple Rly Measured & Drawn by Phillips comes 40lb for 1’ 11 1/2” gauge.

Interestingly for the Welshpool & Llanfair The Light Railway Order proposed use of 35lb rail, but the Railway Inspectorate suggested this would be too light and recommended a minimum of 41 1/2 lb and they used 45lb.

The Wantage Tramway had almost the lot (The Wantage Tramway by Pearce-Higgins).
Laid originally with 40lb bridge rail - substantially but not wholly replaced with various quantities of FB rail of 46, 56, 78 (ex M&SWJ), and 98 lb (ex GWR for use on some curves).

The book Lynton & Barnstaple Rly Measured & Drawn is by two authors - Phillips and Bishop.

 

[Osgood]

Thank you for pointing out that error and my apologies - I will put it right, right away!

Superb book by the way. Although my interest in the L&B was alone not sufficient to make a purchase, the fresh layout style and quality of the content made it an essential acquisition - which in turn lead to a much greater interest in the L&B!!