Sarf of the river, down Nine Elms way

Martin Shaw

Western Thunderer
Whilst the A5 is awaiting materials I decided to pick up a project I had started looking at about a year ago.

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This came to me some years ago, again sadly on the death of a friend, and was coarse scale 3 rail. I always remember it running on a van train with a T9 double headed. Anyway I was pleased to get it, a nice model although not super detailed, it captures the purposefulness of Maunsell's rebuilds of Drummond locos. The extended smokebox could look ungainly I suppose, but I like them, T9s and 700s as well. 463 was a Nine Elms engine for most of its life. It was converted to oil firing in 1947, and did no work after 1948 until withdrawal in 1951, the first of the class. It was also never renumbered into the BR series.

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An initial inspection required removal of the tender pickup arrangement and revealed inner frames of shim material, three spacers at the top but the strength came from the perspex block at the bottom and now redundant. Not only that but the frame spacing was such that there was really excessive play already. Finescale wheels were going to need more than washers. I decided new frames was a start so I drew them up in CAD.

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and then put it all back in the box until today. I found some 1/16" by 1" NS strip, ideal for frames if a tad thick, so two bits were soldered together.

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and the subsequent sandwich milled to overall size and drilled per the diagram. I would be even more pleased if I hadn't by mistake drilled one of the brake hanger mountings oversize. An easy enough fix in due course, and then the final milling to size. Some progress this afternoon, the boss insists I accompany her on a weekend away, so more next week.

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Regards
Martin
 
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Steph Dale

Western Thunderer
Looking forward to seeing this, Martin, the D15s are a firm favourite of mine. That looks a lovely model too.

Steph
 

Martin Shaw

Western Thunderer
Steph

This was one of the later engines in the collection, so could well be from a kit, Shedmaster? I haven't had a poke about inside yet so I can't say, but the one objective of all of my sadly now gone friends was that the trains ran, highly detailed models weren't really what they wanted, but I realise that they all grew up with pre war Bassett Lowke and Hornby, it is different now. I'll see if I can find a suitable picture that might put this collection I've acquired in context a bit.
Regards
Martin
 

Steph Dale

Western Thunderer
Aah, yep, it might be Shedmaster, looking at the firebox/ashpan sides. I gave up on mine, comparison with drawings wasn't very complimentary and I therefore suggest that your model has had a great deal replaced with scratchbuilt parts - or your friend had a good eye and the skills to match. I was also building my model in as-withdrawn condition, which can't easily be done from the kit: neither early or late versions are possible due to combinations of smokeboxes, tenders, cab-sides, etc...

Steph
 

Martin Shaw

Western Thunderer
After a jaunt around the North East at the weekend, I have returned enthused to rejoin the fray that is Mr Drummonds tender. I removed the original frame assembly, principally to check that the new frames fitted the body length ways, which they do.
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As you can see it's not pretty. The spacers have had packing pieces soldered on top to get the ride height correct because the wheels are undersized, 3' 10" instead of 4' 0".

The new frames were set up on the mill and slots are being cut for the bottom frame edge after which the centre axle hole will be slotted out at 8mm width so the bearings can move vertically, the front and rear bearings being fixed. The excess material will be sawn off and the edges milled to the scribed lines, some of which you can see I got wrong first go.
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This was the situation at close of play last night, there's a bit to do yet.

The following pics are for interests sake and show the layout I was involved with some years ago now, and where more than a few of the models originated.
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Doug, the owner of this extravagance, is at the far end, and the rear view is of Keith, whence the A5 came.

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The bottom shed before there was an actual shed, the D15 is nearest the camera. Pretty firmly in SR territory.

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The shed building, the T9 gives an indication of the size. I found this in the attic of Keith's house and had the heartbreaking decision to put it in the skip. It pains me still.

Regards
Martin
 

Martin Shaw

Western Thunderer
Well, it was all going so well
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until those capricious gods of railway modelling, having stolen Jordan's mojo and obviously having nothing else to do, stopped by my place.
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and caused this c**k up. The rh side would be alright if it wasn't too close to the hornguide, nothing left to tap for the keeper, the lh side oops. Actually I turned the table the wrong way, so whilst the gods are getting the blame, it really is my fault. Nothing for it except the scrap bin and start again. Before I do that I have separated the frames and put it together to see if it fits. Pleasingly it does, with a minor adjustment to a frame spacer required, the wheels borrowed from the LNER sit on the rails squarely, and the whole thing fits into the body with the correct ride height so it's broadly dimensionally accurate and my workmanship is tolerable. So not a complete disaster, bloody annoying nonetheless.
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Onwards and upwards
Regards
Martin
 

Stirling O

Active Member
There are two ways of looking at this. You either accept the c--k up, and pretend it doesn't matter, or you do the sensible thing, which is start again and persevere until you get it right, which at the end of the day is far more satisfying.

Davey
 

Martin Shaw

Western Thunderer
Davey
I think your absolutely right, I could probably have made it work and given it would have been hidden in the depths of the tender, probably not noticeable. It would however have bugged the hell out of me, I've put it down to a learning curve with new machinery and my lack of experience, irritating of course but I find I'm relatively sanguine about having to redo it. When I have done it correctly I'll be well pleased.
Regards
Martin
 

Martin Shaw

Western Thunderer
Far be it from me to complain about fine weather, we get little enough of it, but when the workshop air temperature was up to 32C, I felt a tactical withdrawal necessary. I retreated to the relatively cool study and redesigned the frames, principally to enable them to be more easily made. What this highlighted was the necessity of using the software frequently, as I really scratched my head on occasional issues. Lethargy rules.
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Regards
Martin
 

Martin Shaw

Western Thunderer
There has been a bit of a hiatus in progress. Last year whilst refurbishing the bathroom I discovered the lintel over the window was collapsing, since the room was in bits anyway putting it right was relatively easily done. It was also obvious that my neighbours had the same problem, and I suspected my other windows would need doing sooner. The contractors started work next door two weeks ago and having seen the quality and thoroughness of the work I invited them to price my job, so they started and finished within the week. I was under strict instruction not to even think about doing it myself, so some younger fitter Polish men did it for me, very well and at a sensible price. Brexit, bah.
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Smaller of the holes in the wall, new window to go in next week.

A wet day and no boss meant I could get on today and the frames are near completion.
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It's far from perfect but it is dimensionally accurate and does look vaguely like the design drawing. I have held off drilling the brake hanger positions pending the Pollokshaws show at the weekend when I might obtain brake bits. There is no doubt that this machining business presents a steep learning curve with a long way to go, but I'm pretty pleased with the way this has turned out, even if it took me a couple of tries.

Regards
Martin
 

Martin Shaw

Western Thunderer
Well I went to the show at the weekend, and spoke to all the folk I haven't seen for a six month. The discussion was inevitably about Theresa's stramash, the recent passings, thankfully few, which bits ache most in the mornings, all of them, and finally what modelling activities were being undertaken. It was good to catch up with the O gauge world in the West of Scotland.

I had a discussion with Dave Brooks of JPL, see my A5 thread if you want to know why, which sorted out the issues, at least from my perspective. Finescale wheels for the D15 were ordered which should be with me by Telford, and brake bits for the tender and the A5 along with Slaters plungers acquired. This enabled me on Sunday to position and drill the frames for the hanger positions, and then take the blowtorch to the assembly and separate the frame sides for cleaning up and trial assembly. There's still a bit to do, tapping 5 12BA holes on each side is a challenge, middle bearings and keepers to make and brake rigging to fabricate. Meanwhile refurbishment of the linen press is occupying this week, new floor today, new walls tomorrow. If you want my advice on these matters, don't move house.

Regards
Martin
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Martin Shaw

Western Thunderer
There has been a three line whip preventing modelling activities whilst major alterations to the large cupboard have been ongoing, new window, new floor, removal of lath and plaster which is the most awful job, and some painting etc. I must have accumulated some brownie points as the boss offered to take me to the Perth show yesterday and even bought dinner on the way home.

Todays exercise, middle bearings.
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stock material being faced,
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tool height checking
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turned for concentricity and initial measurement
IMG_0322.JPG reduction in process to finished size, remembering that each increment of the cross slide reduces the diameter by 2x. Guess when I did remember that.
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parting a groove to fit the frame cutout, the tool is 1.5mm wide and the frames 1.6mm thick so I settled for a 1.65mm wide groove, give or take.
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Reaming the axle bearing 3/16" in a previously drilled hole 4.5mm.
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Finished bearing parted off from the stock. Another one was also made.
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Assembled into the frames, you can just see clearance above the bearing. When it's all sitting level the middle wheel set can rise by about 0.4mm which should be adequate enough. I need to do some retainers and springing for the bearings next. Quite a satisfying afternoon.

Regards
Martin
 

adrian

Flying Squad
Nice work there.

remembering that each increment of the cross slide reduces the diameter by 2x. Guess when I did remember that.
I have a Coronet lathe where the scale is marked up for total diameter, so 5 thou on the dial will take 5 thou off the diameter - it gets really confusing when I then switch back to the mini lathe where 5 thou on the dial will take 10 thou off the diameter!!:confused:
 

Martin Shaw

Western Thunderer
Thanks Adrian, kind of you to say so. I have the unfortunate situation that the lathe has 0.025mm graduations and the mill has 0.02mm. You do have to think about it, although I'm positive that metric is the right way even though my head is imperial.
I have been sitting in the kitchen listening to Clair Teal, idly picking up each end of the frame and watching the bearings slide down the frame cutouts, weirdly hypnotic if certainly very pleasing.
Regards
Martin
 

adrian

Flying Squad
You do have to think about it, although I'm positive that metric is the right way even though my head is imperial.
Each has it's place - although schooled in the 70s/80s I still prefer "christian" units, fortunately my mini-lathe is fitted with DRO units so I can switch between the two as required by the task. To be honest I use both on a fairly equal basis.
 

Martin Shaw

Western Thunderer
That's over a month since my last on this, dosn't time fly when your footling about with machine tools. Meantime the tender frames on the desk have been looking at me accusingly, whilst I pondered methods to retain the floating bearings. In the end the simplest choice, not immediately obvious, was the best.
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Two 12BA screws were all that was needed. The bearing only needs to float so that the whole thing doesn't rock on the middle axle at a high spot, so for the time being it'll do. I can't really do much more until the wheels arrive, the front and rear axles are getting thicker bushes to take up the endfloat, and then the brake hangers can be positioned the right distance from the frames. I have been looking, note the careful choice of verb, at the loco frames which are none too clever, but rather than take that apart as well and strew the bench with yet more bits, Mr Drummond's machine can return to storage, whilst we head over to Neasden shed to see what they have been doing.

Regards
Martin
 

Martin Shaw

Western Thunderer
Graham
Certainly worth a check, but gripping them in a chuck would be a challenge, it might just be easier to start from scratch.
Regards
Martin
 

Dog Star

Western Thunderer
... gripping them in a chuck would be a challenge...
Not sure why - unsolder as is, reverse into frames and re-solder. Measure over face of bushes and calculate how much to remove. Pick up big file and attack - carefully - and check measurement as you proceed.
 
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