Prototype Slides from the '70s - pictures to models

[AJC]

Having uncovered a nice shot of a Southern 5-plank high here from dad's collection, here are a couple more. I'll persuade him to set up some sort of gallery yet...

Anyhow, I have no dates or details of these though the period is the early '70s, and a lot of these slides are not of wonderful photographic quality, so what you see is very much what you get. Still, this was Wimborne:



There's a selection of pictures from roughly the same date here: Disused Stations: Wimborne Station

More typical of his interests is this shot of B266255, a BR Minfit. Partially replated (bottom rot) some time previously and patch painted rather more recently (note the metric tare weight) which probably explains the white lamp iron and changeover lever. The meaning of the chalked inscription is almost certainly not a comment on the sorry P4/S4 business...



There's also an underframe shot (yes, I know that the colour rendering is a bit off) which gives a good view of the RIV screw coupling, in all likelihood a replacement fitting, and some insights into the brake rigging. There is, in fact, a model based on these pictures, ABS castings and the Airfix kit and more or less contemporary with the pictures. When I'm next back in Somerset I shall see if it can be found and photographed.

 

[Simon]

Great pictures Adam, thank you for posting them. I visited Wimborne just after I'd learned to drive in 1977, when it was the base for the exhibition train(s) that subsequently moved to Salisbury, I think. The box was long gone but there was still a huge amount left in situ.

The wagon pictures are very good for colouring and detail, especially the second shot. A Minfit is probably a fairly unusual wagon in my 1/32 world so I'll count myself "off the hook" on this one, although many of the features shown will be on wagons I might model.

I was at Bodmin yesterday contemplating a very nicely restored LNER van, a bogie bolster and Mk One coach tell tales, anticipating the pleasure I might get from replicating them in 1/32 scale. The 64XX departing on the Auto train to Bodmin Road was sublime, complete with fairly vintage looking driver looking purposefully ahead as it departed, hands firmly on the controls that we have been told were often left unconnected...

I also think your Dad's two Minfit pictures perfectly illustrate the "modellers dilemma" of how much detail do you add and what do you leave out. From a 1/32 perspective, and if you want to create an actual model of any subject, you ought really to be adding more than in, say, 4mm scale, although it seems to me that 4mm modelling has reached a pretty unassailable peak of quality in this regard these days. In 4mm scale I think some people "over focus" on detail and precision but then it such an approach that has driven standards up to the level they are I suspect. Nonetheless there is an awful lot that has to be edited out, I think that it is quite possibly in this area that the true "art" of modelmaking most resides.

It'll be nice to see your Dad's model, I'm sure he will have created a convincing impression of what he saw.

Going back to 1/32 modelling, the most likely next wagon target for me is an ex Southern lowmac, partially inspired by your excellent 4mm model and aided and abetted by three Ted West images purchased from Mike King (which reminds me I owe you an email). How I'm going to get the buffers sorted out I don't know, probably by using my lathe, which would also see the Spurn Head railcar finished as it too needs some pretty funky buffer housings.

Apologies for holiday wittering...

Simon

 

[AJC]

I'm pleased you like the pictures Simon and, even if not immediately useful, I'm glad that they're of interest.

Knowing where to draw the line with the inclusion - or omission - of detail is the greatest challenge, I think. In 4mm, much if not quite all of the detail shown in dad's shot us available using Justin Newitt's etchings, in 7mm, @djparkins will do you an excellent rendition, in perhaps more detail than I'd include if left to my own devices, but Jerry Clifford and @Neil get this absolutely right, I think. The amount you include is dictated by scale, context and what you want to achieve; suggestion is more often more effective than replication and additional faff. Now I enjoy some of the faff, but that's my choice!

See you at Wells

Adam

 

[iak63]

Wagon porn of the highest order Adam.
Anything like this is gold - dust.

 

[djparkins]

, in 7mm, @djparkins will do you an excellent rendition, in perhaps more detail than I'd include if left to my own devices

Adam,

I take your point but there are loco build threads on here at the moment where nobody is saying there is too much detail on those. Part of the problem is that the hobby is still far too loco-centric with stock and buildings coming a poor second. I think/hope we have gotten 99% of what is underneath an 8 shoe fitted mineral into our kit but anyway, at the price we charge for it you can always leave some parts off and still have a bargain!

Of course, if you take it a stage further you can make the case for scenics and buildings being even more important than locos or stock in terms of detail - since the 'moveables' are just bit-part actors on a layout whilst the layout itself remains centre stage, stationary and fully on view all of the time.

Regards

David Parkins
Modern Motive Power
www.djparkins.com
David J Parkins

 

[Heather Kay]

I'm with Mr Parkins. For me it's all part of the journey.

My personal aim - passed on to my now professional life - is to try to include as much detail as I can reasonably get away with, given scale and sanity, for every model I build. There can't be many of us trying to completely fit out a guard's compartment that will probably never see daylight again! If someone asks me to build a humble PO wagon, it'll get proportionately as much effort put into it as a loco or coach build.

I remember taking an Airfix Presflo kit and spending inordinate amounts of time sorting out the body joins, adding pipework and control systems, detailing the brake gear and so on. Then I remembered Presflos tended not to be solitary animals! I've still got a box full of various Presflo kits and bits, which were to form part of a train, but then the RTR bods did it as well as I could and it will never be finished.

 

[AJC]

Adam,

I take your point but there are loco build threads on here at the moment where nobody is saying there is too much detail on those. Part of the problem is that the hobby is still far too loco-centric with stock and buildings coming a poor second. I think/hope we have gotten 99% of what is underneath an 8 shoe fitted mineral into our kit but anyway, at the price we charge for it you can always leave some parts off and still have a bargain!

Of course, if you take it a stage further you can make the case for scenics and buildings being even more important than locos or stock in terms of detail - since the the 'moveables' are just bit-part actors on a layout whilst the layout itsself remains centre stage, stationary and fully on view all the time.

Regards

David Parkins
Modern Motive Power
www.djparkins.com
David J Parkins

David - I agree completely; I generally regard locos as a necessary evil.

What I meant was that, if I had to improvise my own chassis, I probably wouldn't go to the same lengths (because the kind of things I build aren't readily available to go and look at in order to ascertain what should be there). Take the example below as a case in point - the clayliner tanks are long gone and though dad did see them when he lived in Saltash it wasn't really convenient to check out the underframes when they passed through and indeed, he rarely saw them up close though he knew when they were about because they brought Brush type 4s across the bridge because the things were air-braked. Paul Bartlett did take some useful pictures, however, and happily the underframes are broadly similar to TTAs and these can be found. Despite all the work here this is not as much as the equivalent Rumney Models etch would include. I keep looking at your 7mm Minfit, but well, it's a bit big for EM...





I still need to sort out transfers, but the principal work (and enjoyment) has been extracted from the project. The layout? Well, that's going to have to wait for a suitable space and when one does become available, the effort will be applied to physical infrastructure.

Adam

 

[AJC]

Next, a departmental pairing. I'm not certain where the first of these pictures was taken but it's clear that only one vehicle was mobile. The MOGO, DW105744, appears to have been in use as a S&T tool van. By happy accident, Paul Bartlett photographed it at Abergavenny and at Westbury (this looks more like Westbury to me). So this is a dia. G31, from lot 1224, built some time between 1933 and 1936 and at some point it has acquired replacement W irons of BR pattern, not to mention BR pattern split axleboxes. The other side, interestingly, though not shown in dad's picture, was fitted with a footboard, shown here: GWR Vans - includes specialist designs

No idea why...

While the MOGO is the subject, I can say a bit more about the coach, KDW 7545, with a spectacularly dodgy paintjob and number daubed on any old how, a toplight brake third which survives and is, apparently in the course of restoration on the Swindon and Cricklade railway.

GWR 7545 Toplight Brake Corridor Tri-Composite built 1907 and Swindon & Cricklade Railway restoring GWR toplight coach No 7545



The vehicle below, DW 150319, was captured at Plymouth North Road and was the property of the Bristol Division Crane Inspector. We're not quite sure what it started life as, whether it was a Mink or a Bloater. It doesn't matter overmuch because the conversion was thorough and professional - note the handrails, lamp irons and additional step at the end and appears to have a toilet and a nice olive green paintjob. The roof too looks as though it has benefited from some remedial work, hence the darker paint.



Adam

 

[AJC]

I remember taking an Airfix Presflo kit and spending inordinate amounts of time sorting out the body joins, adding pipework and control systems, detailing the brake gear and so on. Then I remembered Presflos tended not to be solitary animals! I've still got a box full of various Presflo kits and bits, which were to form part of a train, but then the RTR bods did it as well as I could and it will never be finished.

Well yes, but the current list price of a Bachmann Presflo is about 25 quid, which redefines the parameters somewhat, though the Bachmann version (which is less than perfect below the solebar - I still have four and won't be reworking them). The Airfix kit is back in the game.

Adam

 

[AJC]

And here's the Minfit that resulted from the pictures. The Airfix origins should be obvious and the numbers/details aren't quite per the Wimborne example, but in some small way the one has resulted in the other.



Adam

 

[Eastsidepilot]

If someone asks me to build a humble PO wagon, it'll get proportionately as much effort put into it as a loco or coach build.

Fully agree Heather , if I can see it on the prototype then the detail gets added to the model.......I can't leave it off

Col.