That NLR tank again.....

Discussion in 'S7 Group' started by Michael D, 3 March 2019.

  1. Michael D

    Michael D Western Thunderer

    Evening all,
    After some time out of sorts with modelling, and some long postings in New York, Toronto and finally moving back to London,its time perhaps to dust off my bits and pieces in storage and finally finish off the NLR tank, its just about ready for the paint shops, question is which version of the black livery should it carry. I'd love to see this finished even though it doesn't have a home or layout to stretch its legs, it runs sweetly out of the wrapper, maybe need to have a think about which dcc decoder or sound that might work well with the Maxon motor? and time to look for some inspiration for the next build?
    Happy modelling
    Michael IMG_2791.jpg
  2. Yorkshire Dave

    Yorkshire Dave Western Thunderer

    Easy, either ESU or Zimo HO sound decoders.

    Possibly a Terrier sound as they are at least one of few the active 2 cylinder locomotives commensurate with the age and period of the NLR tank.
    Michael D likes this.
  3. simond

    simond Western Thunderer

    I’ve pondered sound projects for locos where there isn’t one - and it’s probably easier for a GW modeller as I am - but the aspects I’d consider are;-

    Number of cylinders, 2 or 4 no big deal, however 3 matters, whistles are obviously very distinctive.

    Always assuming the decoder is set up for the loco, so the “chuffs” are properly synchronised, of course.

    Size of smokebox, size of firebox will add some resonance (or not) to the chuff, and might make quite a difference, but I’d expect it’s likely to be subtle. That said, I’d try to find a “donor” with a similar boiler design.

    In principle, the type of valves, and thus admission, might change the sound, but I’m guessing it would be difficult to spot. Similarly size of cylinders must affect the volume of steam released at each chuff, and the type of valve gear must have an influence, but could anyone tell?

    I’d guess that inside or outside cylinders probably doesn’t make a lot of difference, not sure that the era or age matters a lot?

    What other factors might be relevant?

  4. paulc

    paulc Western Thunderer

    Hi Michael , when you have decided on a decoder and a sound file can you post on here and let us I know . I have the same loco that I have been scratch building on and off for a few years and have in that time gone DCC so would be interested .
    Cheers Paul
  5. LarryG

    LarryG Western Thunderer

    It would nice to think that the factors listed by simond could be applied to the current DCC sound decoders, but the chips lack that kind of sophistication. It wouldn't surprise me if a single recording is altered to suit various classes of locos. Real locos are recorded at relatively slow speeds and so one is hearing a slow speed exhaust speeded up, hence the machine gun effect. Some sounds would only be heard on the footplate, but there we are. I have spent days trying to tease a realistic exhaust out of accelerating steam locos.
  6. simond

    simond Western Thunderer

    I did briefly have an e-discussion in another place - I remarked that the order of loudness should be rather different to what one typically finds in most sound projects.

    My "relative volume" thoughts were/are

    Safety valves are absolutely deafening. They are right up at 11.
    Whistles - 10, Bells, probably an 8.
    Churchward 2 cylinder loco recently outshopped, with Mad Harry driving, flat out, wide open, max cutoff at low speed - 8 or 9
    Ditto, Captain Sensible in the chair, comfortable 20-40mph on the flat, lightish train - about 7
    Idling downhill, coasting - different sounds of course, but probably a 4 or 5
    Vac pump - 3 or 4
    Rods clanking 3 or 4 - might be worse on an old dog...
    injectors - 3 or 4
    clank of fireman's shovel on tender - 2 or 3 It would be louder if it clips the firehole door rather than going in- as would the swearing and grumbling.

    the reply was "but that's not what the market wants". Of course my perceptions may be awry too.

    Sound volumes are subject to a number of factors - there's the inverse square law that reduces the power with distance - and there's a subjective bit that compares a specific sound with the overall environment - and then there's the typical weighting to do with the way our ears work, and just to add complexity, there are echoes & reverbertion and so the percieved sound field from a given loco under similar load might sound very different in a built up area, or a forest, or open ground.

    I suspect that the relative volumes are more to do with what is recorded from the footplate than what you would hear with your microphone over the fence. Part of that is of course sensible, we want to hear the engine noises free of mobile phones and background chatter, but I intend to summon the courage to completely adjust all my decoders to reflect something which I feel would be more realistic.

    Interesting thought about the "machine gun effect", hadn't thought of that, but it makes sense, I feel.

    none of which has much to do with Michael's rather nice loco...

    Brian McKenzie likes this.
  7. LarryG

    LarryG Western Thunderer

    I've been looking all over for film of the NLR 0-6-0T on the Cromford & high Peak hoping to hear the whistle, but to no avail. Argo-Transacord might have it on one of their recordings.

    Other than that, if the LNWR fitted their whistle on absorption of the NLR (Rule 1 ;)), I suppose a Coal Tank chip could be useful in the 4-4-0T.
  8. LarryG

    LarryG Western Thunderer

    We watched a movie called 'North West Frontier' last night featuring an old Indian 0-6-0T It had H-spoke wheels and looked like a relative of the NLR 0-6-0T It had a shrilkl whistle not unlike a NER loco. Were they Beyer Peacock locos?
  9. daifly

    daifly Western Thunderer

    Dan Randall likes this.